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Saturday, 26 October, 2002, 13:25 GMT 14:25 UK
Should Sheffield pair share?
Sheffield MP Clive Betts believes the city's football crisis could be solved by United and Wednesday sharing a ground.
Are you in favour of the idea? This debate is now closed. United have announced yearly losses of £1.8m and a debt of £13m, while Wednesday have seen their debt rise to £23m.
And Betts - the MP for Sheffield Attercliffe and a staunch Wednesday fan - thinks groundsharing could be the solution. Previous suggestions that the two clubs should merge have been shot down by fans of both sides. Is groundsharing the future?
The bitter rivalry between the two clubs is of relatively recent origin (30-40 years). There was a time not that long ago, when prices were much lower, that football fans from the city would go to watch both clubs on alternate weekends. Sure they had a favourite but they went to watch the game they loved. Now that it is so expensive to see a game and people have been forced to choose a side and stick with it the rivalry has increased. I can't see the option being taken though. Much of United's debt is in Director's loans and their predicament is not as acute as the other lot. United also appear to have a few saleable assets in their team and are in with a greater chance of promotion both of which could offset the debt. Wednesday on the other hand still have a wage bill that well exceeds their revenues and the players they have left after the last couple of years of attrition won't buy a bag of pork scratchings - although they could make some.
I think Wednesday might do a Fiorentina in the next couple of years unless they can find some league form. United however need to tweak a few things and could find themselves promoted - unlikely as it may seem.
I had to laugh at the guy who claims both teams belong in the Premiership. United are averaging about 16,000 gates this season and Wednesday about 21,000. There were more than that last night for a game between the two worst clubs in the Premiership on a Monday night that was also on TV.
If sharing a stadium means survival for both teams, I say it's a great idea.
You can continue your rivalry in a shared stadium - do you think Fulham fans are suddenly singing songs in praise of QPR, just because their team plays at Loftus Road?
Ask Man Utd and Man City if they could ever contemplate sharing a ground...
Yes, it can work. It works in Milan and Rome amongst others and these teams are 'just as big' as ours and have quite a bit of history too. Unfortunately if we don't do something radical that might be all we have left.
Bramall Lane might be the best option since it's more neutrally placed downtown in Sheffield. On the other hand, the real estate value is probably more! Do it - let's give this city a football chance in the Premiership. The potential ought to be enormous.
It's a great idea to merge the clubs. We could take the red from the United strip and the white from the W*dnesday strip so that the colours are fair for both team's fans.
As for the name, we would need a suffix that signified a joining together of the two sides and their newfound unity - how about "Sheffield United"?
Taking into account the financial situation of both clubs, I believe that selling Hillsborough/The Lane and building a new shared ground is a possibility.
But a full merger just wouldn't be acceptable to either set of fans. For starters, what would the club be called? What colours would they play in? Inter/AC have a fantastic ground, but could we realistically expect something like this in Sheffield?
I am loving all this banter. It just goes to prove that there are plenty of reasons for each club to keep their own identity at separate grounds. Talk of ground-sharing is an option but it would have to be a neutral venue. Anyone saying that the teams should amalgamate clearly doesn't understand how important football is to the city, and is probably posing as fan of Manchester United residing in West London.
Sheffield is home to the oldest football club in the world, it would be a shame to start chipping away at its rich history. Besides, The Blades are going up, the Blades are going up.....
I'm a fan of the blue half of Sheffield, and I feel that a merger of grounds is not the way forward. We are quite happy at Hillsborough, which for years has been seen as one of the top grounds in England, even hosting games from Euro 1996. United have spent money on trying to build up Bramall Lane, and through visits over the last few years I can tell you it does seem to be improving.
In my eyes, there is no need for such a sharing of grounds. For me that would just be the first step towards a full merger, and I along with many fans from both sides am not willing to let our individuality go. Sorry, but it just won't happen.
As a staunch Wednesdayite I am sure that all fans from both sides would agree this would be the death of both clubs. We are a proud city and to do this would show us as being defeated and low. Can you honestly seeing the two Manchester clubs doing this? Look at the problems Man City had, they didn't suggest this!
Ludicrous, idiotic and passionless comes to mind in this suggestion. Blue and white through and through, red and white, stuff you! I cannot believe what I am reading! There is still passion in the steel city, and when it comes down to it neither club would like to share a ground with the other, at Bramall Lane, Hillsborough or a neutral venue. There is too much history! As for a possible merger, whoever initially suggested it should be hung at dawn for treason!
The best way for United and Wednesday to get out of financial trouble is for a lot of fair weather fans to get behind their teams, on both sides of the city, so that the two sides can get extra cash and much needed belief to return them to where they belong - the Premiership!
Clive Betts finally wakes up to suggestions made over 20 years ago when HIS council were planning facilities for the World Student Games.
Funny how, when HIS club his going under it's suddenly a good idea. If only he'd shown the foresight and vision then, neither Sheffield club would be in the predicament they now find themselves.
When will anyone realise that football is a business and that a business in millions of pounds in debt is liable to fold. The only way Wycombe have been able to survive on a sound financial footing has been to share with London Wasps Rugby Club. Joint running costs have reduced the bill considerably. If I were a Wednesday fan or a Blades fan I would rather watch the team that means so much to me at a ground I shared with bitter rivals than watch no team at all.
Consider the fact as well that if you don't share then you may not have a team to support or one to belittle, as both of you will be on the footballing scrapheap with the likes of Aldershot Town!!!
It seems that the only people for a merger/ground-share are Wednesdayites. Now, what do you reckon the reason is? I don't think United have such a problem - going to the wall isn't as imminent.
Yes, Sheffield should have ONE club, but a merger isn't an option. There's a lovely symmetry to the First Division! Interesting that this year, the hype for the United-Rotherham game was bigger than United-Wednesday. How times change! Rotherham are now the local competition. Ho hum.
I am a life-long Blades fan but think both teams should share a ground - an upgrade Don Valley Stadium which would be a neutral ground without any old team history.
If it were to happen, a new stadium would have to built - there is no way any football fan in Sheffield would entertain the thought of playing home games at their closest rival's ground.
Both clubs would benefit from sharing a stadium, and the quality of football would dramatically increase if the two clubs merged. However, the fans' enjoyment from inter-city banter would be diminished.
I hate the Wednesday with a passion, why would we want to leave the lane to share with our arch-rivals is beyond me.
No, as a neutral I don't think they should share. Both clubs have a big enough fan base to survive once this difficult period is over. If they were going to share they should have done it at the Don Valley years ago. Sheffield is big enough to have two clubs, especially as they are both historic ones.
Clive Betts talks a lot of sense. What should happen is that Wednesday and United sell their respective grounds and invest at least some of that cash along with the city council in redeveloping Don Valley Stadium into an absolutely world-class sporting arena. Having said that, pigs will probably fly first.
As a Blades fan who's neither 'rabid' nor been around long enough to remember the coal and steel industries (I'm 23), I take offence at John Kirk's comments (below). Fact is, the reason both clubs are in debt is bad financial management at both clubs, not because the base of support isn't there. People are less keen to go to Hillsborough these days as the team has been fighting relegation for three years, and United's crowds are down because Warnock's brand of football has been pretty poor up until this season.
Funny how United have been in debt since about 1980 and nobody mentions the idea of a groundshare until Wednesday hit rock bottom isn't it?
Having your own ground is an integral part of supporting a team. Songs are sung about the team and the ground. If United and Wednesday shared, we would lose some of the edge that is the rivalry in the Steel City. Up the Blades.
If Wednesday and United are going to share, then why not build a massive new stadium instead of trying to improve one of the existing ones? I don't want to see the Blades playing home games at Hillsborough every weekend and neither would any other Blades fan.
It has been obvious for over 20 years to a great number supporters that the only way they will survive is to ground share with the nearest senior team.
If AC Milan and Internazionale can share a ground then why can't the two Sheffield clubs?
There would be less heartbreak for Sheffield folk if both clubs just disbanded. Clive Betts sometimes talks less than sense but this time he speaks the truth. This is a truth that the more rabid Blades and Owls fans cannot face. They are the same ones that thought that the coal and steel industries would never die.
Now they have, there isn't the money in Sheffield to support two good teams. Time to wake up before both clubs disappear. As an Owls fan for the past 25 years I would have no problem with one team in Sheffield. One, after all, is better than none.
As a neutral who has no interest in either team, I think they should try it. In fact, in the current financial climate I think a lot of other teams/cities should. It makes common sense with so many clubs struggling. However, ancient history will affect most fans judgement on this.
Having one ground isn't the answer to Sheffield's problems. What kind of money is the sale of one of the grounds going to bring? The place is only big enough for one major football club, but history has dictated that it should have two.
The good people of Blackburn and Newcastle - to name but two places - should say thanks to God that they are not living under the same mutually destructive circumstances.
To build a new ground would be prohibitively expensive and would help no one financially and sharing, given the history that Hillsborough has is out of the question. It's a disgrace that any Blade gets to defile the ground on derby day.
It's not really rocket science accountancy. If the combined clubs halve their expenditure by removing running costs of a ground and increase their financial assets by selling one of the grounds, (or both and build one new one), then their would be enough financial muscle in the one new Sheffield club to live with the best. Stay as we are and neither club has any chance - only proud memories.
No, No, No. Dreadful idea. As for a merger? We're fourth and the Owls are 22nd. They need to get over the fact that they might be in Division Two next season and we might be in the Premiership making some of our money back.
Of course they should share grounds. The 'bitter' rivalry is by and large in the heads of a few fans still clinging to the view that the clubs matter to anyone outside South Yorkshire.
Wake up! No-one gives a damn about the clubs. Sharing grounds is an excellent idea. What about the Don Valley Stadium - could that be redeveloped? Bear in mind, neither club is likely to break the 30,000 mark any time soon.
A more sensible solution for Wednesday would be for them to share Chesterfield's ground. After all, they'll both be in the same division soon! I'm a lifelong Wednesday fan and believe that both teams and sets of fans need to put aside their pride in support of each club's survival. If this does end up being a prelude to a merger, then so be it.
It will be good for the city and ultimately for future generations of Sheffield fans as their 'team' restores footballing pride to South Yorkshire.
Sadly, Hillsborough is just too far away to serve as a latrine.
A superb idea. Reduce costs, improve facilties, and maybe you'll get more spectators. The choice is clear: bumble along in second tier mediocrity or go for the big league.
Never - We are Blades and no true Blade would entertain the thought. What comments from Andrew Nicholson, joint chair of the Blades Independent Fans Association - a typical chip on the shoulder blade.
The words 'nose', 'cut' and 'spite' spring to mind. I would have thought debts of £13m might also qualify as financial trouble...
...and another thing, John Kimble: Bramall Lane is an inner city slum site that should have kept the pavilion and stuck to cricket. Two enduring memories of the pig sty: Boycott scoring 88 not out for the day against the Aussie tourists, and Terry Curran scoring a brilliant goal at the Bramall Lane end at a Second Division derby game.
Jill Larke, England
John Kimble, USA, wash your mouth out! the Owls playing at the pig trough!?! How come you know so much about the state of the Temple? I have been to both grounds on and off for forty years and Bramall Lane does not hold a candle to Hillsborough. I think this is some sort of sick joke personally. There is no way in the world these two clubs, who rightly hate each other, would ever consider moving in together.
It is the worst joke I've heard in a while and I don't know what Betts is thinking. There's only one team in Sheffield and they don't play in red and white! I think with the current financial crisis in football, the groundsharing idea by the MP will benefit both clubs. It could halve their problems and save both clubs from administration.
Wednesday's Hillsborough stadium is worse for wear and Bramall Lane would be a suitable option. AC and Inter Milan are groundsharing, why not Sheffield Wednesday and United?
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25 Oct 02 | Eng Div 1
25 Oct 02 | Business
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