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Saturday, 7 September, 2002, 16:02 GMT 17:02 UK
Do Scotland have a hope?
Scotland's Euro 2004 campaign gets off to an embarrassing start as they scrape a 2-2 draw with the Faroe Islands.

Should Berti Vogts step down as coach?

This debate is now closed.

The arrival of Vogts - who guided Germany to Euro 96 glory - was supposed to have marked a new era for Scottish football.

But after losing five consecutive friendly matches, Scotland were lucky to grab a share of the spoils in the first of their Euro 2004 qualification matches.

The first-half display was dire, and the small Tartan Army contingent left shell-shocked as Scotland went 2-0 down within 12 minutes.

But despite spurning several chances, Paul Lambert scrambled a goal back early in the second half, and Barry Ferguson scored ten minutes from time to salvage a point.

Do you still back Vogts? Or should he now resign?


Berti is right to criticise Weir and Dailly. The two of them are not international class and never had been. Personally I find it bizarre they play professional football. It is hardly surprising Graeme Sharp is backing Weir as he works with the guy.


Auf Wiedersehen Berti
Archie Galbraith, Scotland

Davie Moyes wants to watch Weir in a Scotland jersey and maybe he would rethink contacting the SFA. Scotland should get behind Berti and give him a chance. Getting shot of Dailly and Weir would be a good start.
Jamie Bryant, Scotland

Stop trying to justify this man's incompetence. He selects poor players from poor teams. His tactics are wrong and his sense of urgency is missing presumed dead.

Rangers did the same with Advocaat for years and look at them now. Hold your hand up Park Gardens and let Vogts go. The man is not up to the job. We have good managers and we certainly have better players. Auf Wiedersehen Berti.
Archie Galbraith, Scotland

Come on, give Berti a break - he's working with mmm... lets see, not a lot. A draw with a bunch of chicken farmers is a "battling point" for the Scots. He is digging his own grave using all the young guys. But desperate men do desperate things!
Rupert, UK

When I heard the Scotland score, the Faroe Islands had just gone into a 2-0 lead. Good grief, I thought, is Scottish football finished? We have the talent, also we have to be honest. Sacking a manager every time we go through a sticky patch is not the answer.

A few years ago we were known as having the best defence in Europe, maybe we should never have sacked Craig Brown. Even I thought we would get off to a winning start when I heard we were playing the Faroe Islands. I'm still stunned.


They can't even get a game for their club and yet represent our country!
David Hamilton, Scotland

We have to face it, England and now Wales are miles ahead of Scotland and probably Northern Ireland are a better quality team now. I always went on about bringing back the home internationals, using them to the four home nations' advantage by trying out different players and tactics. I still think that should happen, but not to be fanatical about winning, more about organizing four British Nations that could compete at world class level. To be honest, I can't see Scotland qualifying for the European Championships, but I desperately hope that I'm wrong. So, c'mon Scotland!
Stephen Rogers, Nottingham, U.K.

I think it's a thorough disgrace that Vogts persists in playing those who languish in the reserves of larger clubs. Why not play those youngsters who get a consistent chance at first-team action? I'd far rather have a young player who plays 25 games a season for Kilmarnock than one who never breaks into the English Premier League.

I mean, what do Dobie, Kyle et al think they're doing? They can't even get a game for their club and yet represent our country!!! Come back when your voices have broken.

As for the manager, he's had enough time to get a first XI ironed out. If this is what we're going to get, it's a catastrophic shambles. Come back Craig, all is forgiven!
David Hamilton, Scotland

Teams who also don't feature the 'superstars' of the game don't sit and complain about it - they employ tactics to defeat opponents - I haven't seen any tactics from Vogts yet that give me an impression we're going anywhere positive under his tenure. Since when could the Germans teach us anything about spirit?
Simon Cowan, UK


Berti's class will show through.
Martin, Scotland

Graeme Sharp has a cheek criticising Scottish-based players in the Scotland squad. For experienced players, Weir and Dailly were appalling against the Faroes. Has Sharp forgotten his own Scotland "career"? 13 caps, and one goal in a lucky 1-1 draw against Malta.
Stefan Kilpatrick, Scotland

Berti must be given time. He not only has to manage the national team, but must rebuild the set-up and structure of our national game. This is not something that cannot be done in a year. Let him have at least two years, then see where we are. His class will show through.
Martin, Scotland

Do Scotland have a chance? In a word - no. The Faroe Islands match says it all - a primary school teacher showed them how to score.
Mike, England

I'd rather see Chick Young as the Scotland boss, and that's saying something.
Eddie, USA

I think that Berti Vogts won't have any joy unless he persuades Big Duncan to come out of retirement, like he did with Lambert. Scotland's main target striker, Kevin Kyle, isn't even playing first team football for Sunderland, no disrespect to them.

They have a decent midfield and I think if they get a good striker to hold the ball up, and maybe play Matteo alongside Weir rather than Dailly, they could qualify. Berti! If you want to keep your job, I think Duncan Ferguson maybe the answer!!
Mila, England


Surely Berti was appointed for the long term - we've got to support him
Tom McLoughlin, UK

It seems like you are contradicting yourselves. Some on this page complain of Berti selecting all young pretenders, while others on the page comment on him using old has-beens - face it, Scottish football no longer exists, it is merely a joke for the English to laugh at!
Christopher, England

Scotland is a joke, just ask the kids. The root of the problem lies in the league, or more accurately the non-league. Several so-called large clubs need to merge with rivals if they are ever to rival the dominance of Celtic and Rangers.
Paddy, London

Surely Berti was appointed for the long term to improve Scottish national football. We've got to support him through the short term.
Tom McLoughlin, UK

It isn't Berti's fault for Scotland's down fall, it's the clubs and the SPL for not making sure that each club is investing enough time, effort, and money in the youth system so that Scotland has new Scottish talent coming into the league!
Timothy Miller, England

Typical Scots knee-jerk reaction time, I see. The guy has only been there a short while, he is trying to rebuild from scratch a team that's been on the way down from a pretty low point for decades. We don't have the talent and we've had the schoolteachers in charge for too long.

What is the problem with criticism? If a player does badly why can't the manager say "he did badly". If the player has any guts then he'll try and prove the manager wrong. If he doesn't and wants to walk away or mouth off like B Ferguson, then we're better off without them.
Andrew B Davidson, Australia (from Scotland)


It's time to ditch Vogts and install a Scottish legend
Eddie, USA

Where is the case for the defence - Berti's, that is. Here is an international coach fielding a side of untried youngsters, many of whom are either unable or incapable of commanding a regular starting place for their club. Yet, Vogts is expecting results beyond their abilities.

Surely it is he who is naive and lacking in thought. Contrary to popular belief, there ARE good Scottish players, regulars in their club sides who are capable of performing on a higher stage and would get the Tartan Army on the march again.

It's time to ditch Vogts and install a Scottish legend - Jordan, Souness or Strachan. Dare I even suggest Kenny Dalglish; despite what happened at Celtic, he is still held in high esteem. Could he be the answer - maybe aye.
Eddie, USA

Vogts being sacked or resigning only make sense if there is someone a) who could do better and b) would want the job. What's the point in getting ridding him if we ended up with someone worse?
Dougal McKinnon, UK

When will we Scots learn? Do we really believe that sacking Berti Vogts will transform the national team into Euro 2004 contenders?

Vogts is an experienced manager and knows what he is doing. We simply don't have the quality of players needed to perform at international level. Berti should be given time to turn things around. He is going about it the only way he can, investing in youth.
Gavin Kirkpatrick, Scotland

I will always remember those Scottish fans waving German flags at Wembley during Euro 96. Berti Vogts was the then German manager. I think it's a case of you reap what you sow.
David Smith, England


At least Vogts has got the balls to try and bring players through
Mark, Scotland

I see the comment "Fortress Hampden" but the truth is that the place has no atmosphere since its revamp. I remember the qualifying rounds at Celtic Park and other grounds. At Celtic Park where the pitch is so close to the fans teams looked scared playing there. Hampden is not what it once was.
John, London, UK

We haven't qualified for the last two major championships in case anyone hasn't noticed. Was anyone naive enough to think that King Vogts could change us instantly? I'd rather he kept playing young Scots and not qualify than play old English rejects and, eh, not qualify!

At least Vogts has got the balls to try and bring players through rather than Mr Brown who covered up cracks in our national side that have been there for about 10 years. Sure it looked more respectable but did we qualify? NO. Could Mr Brown beat the Faroes? NO. Could the media please stop telling Scotland that we are not good enough and try and support us for a change!
Mark, Scotland

Barry Ferguson's comments certainly won't help the atmosphere in the dressing room for the next game. His role should be to encourage and lead the other players, not take shots at the manager.
Derek Muirhead, Canada

As a Scot living in London it hasn't always been easy but this last week has been the worst since moving down south in 1978. Scotland's national football team have always suffered taunts and humiliation down here but this has been a nightmare. Sadly, we are one of the minnows in the grand scheme of things.
Ronald McKenzie, London, England


Berti Vogts is the right man for the job, but the quality of Scottish footballers is the lowest that I can remember throughout my lifetime
Simon, England

Vogts is simply picking the wrong players and playing them all over the place. Yes, Scotland are bad but the players out there on Saturday should have been more than capable of getting the three points.

If the match against Iceland does not see the introduction of Steven Pressley, Malky McKay, Mark Burchill or Jackie McNamara then the future does not bear thinking about.
Tony, England

Personally, I think that Berti Vogts is the right man for the job, but the quality of Scottish footballers is the lowest that I can remember throughout my lifetime. This is especially true for the strikers. However, there is one bright spot in the form of Mark Burchill - get him in your team ASAP Berti!
Simon, England

Vogts is simply picking the wrong players. How can young boys who have barely broken into mediocre English Premiership and First Division teams be our answer? Surely it would make more sense to select players who are playing regularly for the top flight teams in Scotland.

Hearts, Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, Aberdeen etc are full of decent Scottish players who may not be in the same class as past greats, but would do a better job than the collection of muppets who disgraced us in the Faroes!!
Alasdair Harvey, Scotland

Perhaps it is time to accept the terminally poor state of Scottish football, and plough the money spent on it into the Scottish rugby team, which at least has some modest successes.
Mark Dixon, Scotland


The carpers should refrain from criticizing their betters
Dave Cuthill, Scotland

If anyone can suggest a suitable replacement then maybe your question would have some validity. Since the position is now even more of a poisoned chalice - who would want the job? So I am afraid we have made our bed and must now lie in it, at least until we do not qualify for Europe.
Jim Irons, embarrassed Scot in England

There are voices calling for Mr Vogts to resign. Who do they think they are? World Cup winners? Herr Vogts certainly is. It's time to put away all of the excuses, stop depending on luck.

The players are simply not good enough, and until they are, the carpers should refrain from criticizing their betters. Listen to Berti, he may just know his business.
Dave Cuthill, Scotland

The players are not much better than the Faroes, sad to say. Don't blame the manager for the lousy state of Scottish football.
Kevin Foster, Scotland

Berti Vogts hasn't done anything so far that Craig Brown couldn't. It's the same lack of passion, determination and will, except with younger, less-experienced players. Berti says there aren't any better players out there to pick - but I have to disagree.


I'm amazed at the vitriol being directed at Vogts
Jon, UK

Why are we playing Old Firm youngsters who can't get a game? Meanwhile, the only player who plays in the SPL but not for the Old Firm was Stevie Crawford - our best player. Doesn't that say anything to Vogts?

I watch Stephen Crainey get beaten again and again, a man who can't get a game for Celtic. Yet Hibs' Ian Murray is Scotland U-21 captain, Hibs' captain, Hibs' player of the year, and yet he can't get a game!
David, Scotland

I'm amazed at the vitriol being directed at Vogts. Now Barry Ferguson is "warning" him that his time will soon be up; whatever happened to players taking responsibility for their performances?

I agree that team selection and tactics are the manager's responsibility, but how could Vogts be blamed for the sheer ineptitude that led to the first two Faroe goals?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this "joke" of a coach the same Berti Vogts that led a mediocre German side to victory in Euro 1996? So please - stop whining, and get behind Vogts and his side; there's evidence emerging in Wales that sides can be led out of the doldrums....
Jon, UK

Blame the clubs. I can almost excuse Rangers and Celtic as they have never cared in the least for Scottish football, but when the likes of Dundee and Livingston pack their teams foreigners, what chance do we have?
Alan, Scotland


I have the feeling we have not hit our low point yet
Drew Wilson, Scotland

Again the choice of players was appalling. Berti shouldn't go, but he really needs to get to know his players a bit better. Simply shoving on the old guard like Dailly and hoping for the best isn't working.

Both goals were scored by midfielders; as everyone says, we are struggling to find decent strikers and yet Shaun Maloney is playing for the U-21 team when anyone who has watched him play will know that he could've ran the Faroes defence ragged given half a chance.
Mark Connelly, Scotland

Berti has a small pool of players to choose from so he can't be blamed for this. However, his choice of "part time" players for full international duty has to be questioned.

How can you expect players who only play occasional club games to play at the level required for international games? I have the feeling we have not hit our low point yet. Just wait until we play the Germans!!
Drew Wilson, Scotland

As a proud Englishman, all I can say is give him a new ten-year contract.
Carl, Sunderland, England

I only watched bits of the match, and it was a good job that I turned the TV over. As a Scotsman, I laughed at this performance. What a joke! Scotland are poxy, if you can't beat the pants off a country with the population of Inverness, you should quit international football now and go back to school to practice with kids.


Perhaps some of the people on the pitch should consider resigning as players?
Keith, Scotland

Berti, get a life and collect your P45 first thing tomorrow morning. You simply aren't up to the job. The SFA should disband now and the whole of Scottish football should be restructured from scratch.

Instead of the Old Firm buying people from abroad, they should try and buy young players from Scotland and give them regular first team football. That's the only way forward.
Robert Morrell, Inverness, Scotland

Perhaps some of the people who were playing for Scotland on the pitch should consider resign as players? Why is it always the case that the players play badly and the only guy who didn't even kick the ball gets it in the neck?
Keith, Scotland

Remember, it cuts both ways; what hope have the Faroe Islands if they can't beat Scotland?
Hagi Seater, Australia

Let's hope the SFA and the FA don't bring back the annual Scotland v England game.
Jimmy McDougle, Scotland

Vogts is not doing a good job, and the result did not even surprise me that much, following the unstructured looking sides he has fielded to date. I agree, though, that the bigger issue is the scarcity of good players. But this goes beyond even just football.


It's time to go back to grass roots and ensure that the money is there to invest in the future of sport in this country
Ross, Scotland

Where are the good rugby players, athletes and so on coming out of Scotland just now? The whole investment in sport and sports education strategy in the country needs to be overhauled.

As sport has become increasingly professional in all spheres, Scotland seems to have stuck rigidly to old formats and is being left behind. It's time to go back to grass roots and ensure that the money is there to invest in the future of sport in this country.

And one other observation. There was a lot of flak directed towards the Scots for not supporting England at the World Cup. Will those many members of the English press and public who are now so evidently gloating please take note of their response and actions the next time they wonder why we cheered on Brazil?
Ross, Scotland

Let him stay on he's doing a great job...
ENGLAND supporter, Norway

Certainly this is a major downer for Scotland, but I don't think Berti is to blame fully although he doesn't get away Scott-free in my book either.


There are definitely better alternatives to young Kyle
Neil, Scotland

All this talk about Scotland not having the players and that there's no youth coming through is in my opinion rubbish. Just look at the Kilmarnock team for instance. They've got four or five homegrown players in their squad who are fully capable of playing in the first team on a regular basis.

That's why I can't believe some of Berti's selections. Take Kevin Kyle for instance, a decent player, but he struggles to even get a game at Sunderland and yet he starts for Scotland in a European qualifier!

Now we all know that the times of great Scottish strikers like Durie, Johnston and McCoist are behind us, but there are definitely better alternatives to young Kyle. I name Kris Boyd, who plays regular first team football with Kilmarnock, and already has notched three goals this season.

Another prime example is fellow Killie player Paul Di Giacomo who unfortunately is injured right now, but I'm sure you'll agree with me that if he's fit and playing regularly he is an outstanding striker.


Give Vogts a chance
Dermot Brennan, Eire

Even Craig Dargo could do a better job up-front for Scotland then Kyle, or Dobie for that matter. So unless Berti changes his selection methods I fear we're in for a long qualifying campaign.
Neil, Scotland

Give Vogts a chance. He has inherited a situation whereby Scotland have few players in the Premiership and even fewer amongst the Old Firm. I'd imagine too that many of the Scottish players are living in the past thinking that the name of Scotland will put fear into teams - no longer, I am afraid.
Dermot Brennan, Corcaigh, Eire

Come back Ally McLeod - all is forgiven!
Allan McEwan, Scotland

If Germany thought their World Cup game against Saudi Arabia was like a training exercise, then they are going to have a field day when they meet Scotland.
Ross McLarnon, Glasgow

After such a poor performance my concern is not 2004 but 2008, and the concerns for the country if we are the joint host nation. Six years may seem a long way off...
Michael Struthers, Scotland

I've never been so embarrassed in all my life. And I remember Zaire, Iran, Costa Rica etc etc...
Scott Liddell, Scotland


The English want Beckham, the Scots want Freedman
Ben Hancock, England

The Scotland players are individually better than the Faroes, by a long way. The team itself is a lot worse than the Faroes. Thus, who is to blame other than Berti? He's a joke in Germany and becoming another one over here.
Andy, Scotland

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Oh, and I forgot...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Andrew, Spain

I propose that Scotland meet my country, Mauritius, in a friendly. Maybe we could get a morale-boosting victory!!!
Nuvin Balloo, Mauritius

Perhaps you should stick to a sport you are good at, Scotland, like the curling!
Miro Zbigkricziczewski, Poland

Scots, don't blame Berti Vogts for all these bad results. The people that are to blame are the players themselves. Let's face it, if the fans think Freedman is the best Scot, then the nation as a football team has really gone down in the dumps.

The English want Beckham, the Scots want Freedman. Face the facts laddies, you deserved to lose to the Faroes, and you can't go blaming the gaffer again!
Ben Hancock, England


Well done to Berti and the boys on a great comeback in the Faroes
Danny, Scotland

We've reached a new low today. Vogts was a mistake (and an expensive one at that), but I bet the SFA are too proud to admit it.
Michael, Scotland

Well done to Berti and the boys on a great comeback in the Faroes, and salvaging a precious point for our Euro campaign. Hopefully now we can keep the score down and look respectable against Lithuania and Iceland.
Danny, Scotland

Enough is enough! Surely Scotland has more to offer than the rubbish that is currently on display. The SFA think that purely by appointing a foreigner that Scotland will do well. Nice try, but I think that Berti and the SFA should resign now.

The players involved today need to have a good look at themselves, then try and remember what it means to be Scottish, and what an honour it is to represent Scotland.
Gary Simpson, England

Publicly criticizing your players is not the way to get the best from them. However, Vogts does have a lot of international experience and maybe it is the lack of real quality players and first team regulars that is the problem.
Graham Smith, Scotland

Let's be honest about one thing; the Old Firm have been truly selfish over the last decade and a half, employing foreign players and not giving our kids the chance to play.


Absolute disgrace, the likes of which I never thought I would see
Pete, Malaysia (Scot)

They did a lot better in Europe when they had only Scottish lads playing and have succeeded in giving 'playing berths' to outsiders with no loyalty to Scotland. Time to build again with SCOTTISH talent; don't blame Vogts!!
David Simpson, Toronto, Canada

It's very easy to criticise Bert Vogts. But when he has the poorest squad in history to pick from it does not matter who is in charge, Scotland are going to struggle.

It's a situation that's going to get worse - I wish I could say '...before it gets better', but there is nothing to suggest that's likely in the foreseeable future. R.I.P.
Brian, England

Hang your head in shame Berti, and the rest of those connected with Scottish football. Absolute disgrace, the likes of which I never thought I would see. At least against Iran and Costa Rica we played a wee bit of football.
Pete, Malaysia (Scot)

What do we expect? Scotland have always been masters of humiliation. We have been just hanging in there for years under Craig Brown. This was poor, but Vogts hasnae yet lost a competitive game.

There are fundamental problems in the Scottish game, but Vogts cannae solve them all; give him at least this season with the national side. What difference would anyone else make?
Dave, Belgium

It seems that what the Scottish team lack in skill they make up for in luck. To even get a point from this game makes me think that it isn't just the Irish who are lucky!
Jack Green, UK


Why does Kevin Kyle get a game? He can't even get a game for Sunderland
A shamed Scottish fan, Edinburgh

It's a sad time when the US is a better playing nation. Scotland should withdraw from all competitions and organise five-a-side with local pub teams... just to get match practice.
Neil, Scotland

I'd love to comment, but I'm speechless.
Sean, Scotland

Roll on independence! It is embarrassing having this joke of a country attached to us.
Callum, England

Scotland shouldn't be playing two "target men". Kevin Kyle is too much like Duncan Ferguson, and what did he ever do when he played for Scotland? If you we are going to play one, we need to play someone like Crawford or even Maloney alongside them.
R Greer, Scotland

I can't think of words to describe the Scotland team. Well, I do, but if I used those words this message won't get printed.

Why does Kevin Kyle get a game? He can't even get a game for Sunderland. Peter Reid doesn't think much of him so what does Vogts see in him? Why is Vogts picking players that cant get a game for their club?

I think the Scotland U21 would beat the senior team. Vogts, your P45 will be in the post by Monday.
A shamed Scottish fan, Edinburgh


We should have sacked him at half time and let Burns take over
Ewan, Scotland

From the sounds of Scotland's performance they don't stand a chance when they hit the tougher teams in the group. If they were lucky to get a point from the Faroe Islands, they will be totally outclassed later on.
Dave G, UK

Keep up the good work Berti, your best will help the rest of us.
Choppy, Denmark

Scottish pride?? Why not forget that and just play for the fun of playing? It may be better if we stick to supporting other sports and stop wasting so much time and money in a sport we are so plainly bad at.

Let's support curling, darts etc, maybe even squash and maybe then we won't lose true talent to the English.
G McCombe, Netvigator

We should have sacked him at half time and let Burns take over. Thank goodness I don't have a heart condition. I'd be stone dead by now.
Ewan, Scotland

Thank you boys for an inept performance, which means I'll be ribbed about it daily at work for the next six months.


Berti Vogts should certainly resign, or better still be sacked
Drew Failes, USA

But the real truth is that Berti Vogts does not have a clue. He picks players who are rubbish, and plays them out of position.

Notice Christian Dailly. Made his name as a striker/attacking midfielder. Switched to defence in 1995. Dundee united relegated, Derby struggled, Blackburn relegated now West Ham....see the story? He tries 100% but centre-back is NOT his position and NEVER WAS.

Dailly, please ask to play up front and stay there - you are the best striker we've got!
Graeme Wright, England

Faroes 2 - 2 Fairies! Help Ma Boab! Berti Vogts should certainly resign, or better still be sacked. This is a man who was sacked from his two jobs in Germany, had a terrible time with Kuwait, and now has the record of being the first manager to lose five, draw one.

I knew at the start he was the wrong choice, Troussier would have been far better, look what he did with Japan. But the SFA wanted a Craig Brown clone, only a foreign one, and that's what we have now. Good luck to the Faroes.
Drew Failes, USA


Auf Wiedersen Bert
Dave Thomson, England - exiled

Desperately seeking the success that England have had under a foreign coach, the Scots elect to do the same. But instead of choosing someone with a great track record such as Hiddink, they elect the football nomad Berti 'gisajob' Vogts.

I applaud the Scots for erasing my anger at their purchase of shirts of every team that England played in the World Cup by going 2-0 to a team that will never be there.

Thank you for making a proud Englishman ecstatic. As the tune says, "When will we see the likes again".
Kristian Thornhill, English ex-Scottish resident, Canada.

Auf Wiedersen Bert. Sorry pal, but you are taking this side nowhere. This was the first one that mattered, and you blew it. We need a Scottish manager, someone with pride in the results, not some foreigner who's just there for the money.

How many successful international sides have a foreign coach?...None! (England take note as Sven 'Goldrush' Eriksson's honeymoon will soon be over.)
Dave Thomson, England - exiled

Fantastic result, well done to the Faroe Isles. I haven't seen too many Scots blame the English media yet - but surely it's only a a matter of time as thats your usual excuse.
Matt, UK


How have we gone from beating Germany 1-0 away to this rubbish?
Paul Henney, England

Scotland should quit playing international football as every time we play a game, we just bring embarrassment upon our country. Berti Vogts is clearly here for the money, and our players simply aren't any good.

If a team of fishermen and farmers from a country of only 45,000 people can go 2-0 up on us in 12 minutes then it's time to think about sacking Vogts and giving up completely.
Dobber, Scotland

What a shambles! How have we gone from beating Germany 1-0 away to this rubbish? I'm afraid I saw nothing to convince me that Vogts has what it takes to turn this around.
Paul Henney, England

The level of talent available is extremely limited. Lambert is getting beyond his sell-by date. That only leaves Ferguson and maybe Hutchison and McCann, if fit, and a goalkeeper as the only international class players to choose.

The remainder would not get a game for any good side. We have NO international class defenders. None! With all the rest lacking confidence, we throw in young players who are not ready and pray.

We do not even have the work rate to make up for the lack of skill. Sack Vogts - probably - but who would take this job? The immediate future is bleak!
Alex Sked, USA


On a good day we might just beat St Helena 1-0
Alan (ex-pat), UAE

Ha, ha, ha, ha, the entire SFA should resign, as should Vogts. And every player who started today should announce his immediate retirement from international football. Well, I can dream can't I? Just like Scotland can dream of ever been taken seriously as a football nation.
Hugh MacRae, Scotland

On the bright side, at least it wasn't a better team such as Lithuania we were playing!!! Roll on Germany! I can hardly wait!
C Mackay, Scotland

Scottish football is a joke, you're not fit to lick the boots of the England team. By the way, where can I get a Faroe Islands shirt!
Mark, England

Let's face it. Scottish domestic football is third rate, we've only got two decent teams and they're both full of non-Scots. At long last we've reached our true level, on a good day we might just beat St Helena 1-0. Anybody who takes the job of Scotland manager has got to have a thick skin. Who else would take it?
Alan (ex-pat), UAE

Hmmmmm it looks like the Faroes might beat us to our initial European Cup. On the other hand, the result might have more to with the ineptitude of Scottish football. Yeah that's probably it...
Hallur, Iceland

As an Englishman recently moved to Scotland perhaps I shouldn't comment at this point. However, I have to say that having watched Scottish football on TV since moving up here, I have been astounded by the poverty of the play.


We are a joke. Improve the league and get a Scottish coach
Robin, Scotland

I don't think many Scottish club sides would flourish in the English First Division, and Rangers and Celtic would struggle in the Premiership. Let's not blame Vogts. The players are simply not good enough and the whole system needs changing.
Chris Harris, Scotland (England)

So long as the perception persists that Scotland is a better team than the Faroes, Scotland will continue to struggle. Rebuilding a team happens from the bottom up....obviously we have not hit bottom yet.
Jimmy, Scotland

Can we NOW have a serious discussion about how to improve the standard of Scottish football, as that was a joke. We need to build from the bottom up.

We have two teams that can compete in Europe. We have a league that has two possible winners and a bunch of also-rans. At the moment we are a joke. Improve the league and get a Scottish coach.
Robin, Scotland

Today's "performance" was really embarrassing. We were lucky not to lose. It's time for the entire structure of football in Scotland to be changed.

There's no point in just blaming Berti Vogts - that lets the SFA, the SPL and the Old Firm off the hook. They all have a role building football in Scotland but spend their time fighting over the ever-diminishing spoils.


The match should have been shown after the watershed to protect our innocent bairns
Eric, Scotland

Let's have one organisation running football, not three or four, and let's build from our youth - under-15s if necessary. We can forget about 2004, we don't deserve to go!!
George, UK

Berti has a great record at European Championships - second in '92 and winner in '96, and that was with German teams which were not all that talented. Face it, Scotland, it's not the coach - it's the team!
Kurt, Germany

They should watch Braveheart before the game! That will get them going!
Wendy Rowson, Belgium

The performance was so disgusting that the match should have been shown after the watershed to protect our innocent bairns. On yer wagon, Vogts.
Eric, Scotland

It'll be interesting to see how the Scots blame this one on the English!
Rachel McCann, Scotland

Atrocious. Another truly awful display that failed to inspire for more than two seconds. No quality, slack passing, no passion and gutless. Defence was weak and I have no idea how they can fix it. Perhaps introduce Shaun Maloney of Celtic for a bit of pace/invention upfront.
Stephen Byrne, Belgium


I cannot believe that there aren't 11 Scots out there capable of turning over a nation of 45,000 people.
Nick Hogben, Engand

Oh my goodness, the single most embarrassing 45 minutes of my footballing life, and I'm a Forfar fan - that's saying a lot!
Niall Ritchie

Old rivalry aside, surely Scotland are better than this? Vogts doesn't even seem to have managed to harness the strongest attribute of Scottish football - fighting spirit. Credit to the Faroe Islands for making life so difficult, but for the Scots this was just lame.

As an Englishman, trust me when I say that I'd rather see England beat a strong Scotland than the current shambles. The results under Vogts are a disgrace and I simply cannot believe that there aren't 11 Scots out there capable of turning over a nation of 45,000 people.
Nick Hogben, Engand

Are we really this bad?
Jonny Steedman, Scotland

This is just a sign and that Scottish football at league level is at best mediocre. The two top teams have outside players that largely make up their teams.

Other teams are now bringing in second-rate outside players. What does that say about Scottish players and the way they are coached at a young age. What does Berti Vogts really have to work with?
Jamie, Scotland


Scotland have been rubbish as long as I've been alive
Rob, UK

Having followed the game on the net, I sit here wondering why all the talk is about the inabilities of Scotland - why aren't we talking more about the abilities of the Faroe Islands. This is a team to watch, and a country that has shown it can win (Liechtenstein 1-0).
Steve, DC, USA

I cannot remember the last time I have laughed so hard. Scotland should give up football and stick to golf.
Ben James, Canada

It goes to prove that a foreigner can't do the job of national coach - just look at Eriksson.
Mick Fisher, Scotsman (living in England)

Perhaps it's time for a British team?
Mark Nash, UK

To those who say it's Berti's fault: Scotland have been rubbish as long as I've been alive (remember Costa Rica, Iran etc). We only drew with the Faroe Islands last time we played - don't blame Bertie, blame the demise of local football clubs.
Rob, UK

So much for complaining about the state of the pitch - it saved us from going 3-0 down!!
Alan Shore, Scotland

Surely that has to be the most embarrassing performance ever by a Scottish side. The coach has got to go to save himself and the Scots people further humiliation.
Emily, San Clemente, USA


They have to change the coaching staff ASAP
Ryan, California

Berti isn't getting the team motivated and, not being Scottish, is unable to stir up any kind of national pride, which is seriously lacking in this team.

Scotland were losing to a country most folk haven't even heard of. They have to change the coaching staff ASAP. I honestly think Scotland's football team is a strong reflection of the nation as a whole. There is an incredible lack of self confidence.
Ryan, California, USA

If Berti Vogts is considered a joke in Germany, why was he made manager of the Scottish national team.
Jason Murphy, Scotland

Oh Lord! And Berti would have us believe it was going to get better. Forget 2004 and bring in the youth, and yes Berti, "resign" for your sake and ours.
Des Docherty, United States Of America (ex-pat)

Does anybody know where I can buy a Faroe Islands football jersey?
Leon, English in USA

A draw with the mighty Faroes!! There goes Scotland's Euro 2004 up in smoke. Here's looking forward to World Cup 2006!
Jim, York, England (Scottish ex-pat)


Scotland were fine until Berti Vogts came along
Michael Hutchison, Scotland

As the wife of a Scotland fan, I was wondering if there is a helpline or support group my husband can join after today's performance? I think he needs counselling.
Pam Lawson, Scotland

2-0 down at half-time. The BBC says the most embarrassing 45 minutes in Scottish football history. I know we have to rebuild, but this is ridiculous. And why no Colin Cameron???
Alan Ewens, UAE

Scotland were fine until Berti Vogts came along. We can't blame the players for the manager's mistakes. Get rid of him and quick.
Michael Hutchison, Scotland

Why on earth does Vogts select Old Firm reserves who are not match fit?
John McHardie, Scotland


Scotland 3-1 Canada

Iceland 0-2 Scotland

Faroes 2-2 Scotland

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