Can Vogts turn Scotland around?

Berti Vogts' experimental side is on the receiving end of a 4-1 drubbing at the hands of South Korea.

Is Vogts the man for the job?

 Read match report here

Scotland's youngsters were thrashed 4-1 by South Korea as the co-hosting nation enjoyed a morale booster ahead of the World Cup.

The game was new manager Berti Vogts' third defeat in a row, the worst start ever by a Scotland manager.

Vogts handed new caps to no fewer than three debutants with two more players making their first starts as Scotland continued to tinker with their line-up.

---

This debate is now closed. A selection of your e-mails appear below.

---

We must NOW get the English players out of the Scotland team, people like Neil Sullivan, Robbie Stockdale, Domonic Matteo, Don Hutchinson, Scott Dobie, and bring in people like Malkey Mackay, Derek McInnes, Dougie Freedman, Barry Nicholson, Gavin Rae, Kenny Miller and when he returns from injury Mark Burchill. With them, the team will be full of passion.
Andy, Scotland

Come on guys, get a grip. I for one knew we'd get drubbed by the Koreans. After all, the team that went to play them was little more than a Scotland B team. We were missing guys like Lambert, Ferguson, McCann, Burley and Hutchison. In my opinion that is the spine of the team.
Martin Clarke, Scotland

Berti's on the right track with all the young boys. If he's clearing out the old guard he should go the whole way. David Weir, Dailly, Sullivan and Gemmill should also be dropped as they are not good enough.
B.Cowan, Scotland

Scotland are as bad as they have ever been

Andrew Forbes, Scotland

Give Vogts a break. The guy is trying something totally different to what Craig Brown did - attacking football. OK, mistakes have been made, but the sides he has been putting out will not be the final team.

The blame for the lack of talented players lies directly at the feet of Scottish clubs who week in and week out put out 9 or 10 foreigners in their starting line-ups.

Also, I welcome Anglo-Scots into the team purely on the reason I'm one. I was born and brought up in Bedfordshire all my life, but my Dad is from Fife, and I am extremely proud of my Scottish heritage...and no, I am not going to be supporting England in the World Cup.
Robert Russell, England

Scotland are as bad as they have ever been, watching the South Korea match I really was sick of the lack of passion not only from the players but also from Berti Vogts.

He just sat their as cool as a cucumber and watched his team be rolled over, If e had a Scotsman in charge then their would be no chance of that.
Andrew Forbes, Scotland

Surely the game yesterday was tailor made for Charlie Miller

David, Scotland

Scotland and England have never been as far apart before, when you start to compare players it gets to the embarrassing stage, ie England best Striker - Michael Owen, Scotland's best - Don Hutchinson or Scott Dobie.
James , Scotland

I think that the main criticism that can be levelled against Berti Vogts is that he is giving out full caps to what is essentially a 'B' squad. We all know that the old squad was aging and needed replaced - he is going about it the right way.

Arrange a few meaningless friendlies in far flung places to give the young kids a chance to see what standard of football is required at this level.

I don't think that if the game had been advertised as South Korea v a Scotland XI the criticism would have been quite so great.

When the teams come on to Hampden against Denmark in August I am sure it will be a very different 11 that takes the field. Give the man a chance and judge him when the competition begins in earnest.

Only one word of criticism - surely the game yesterday was tailor made for Charlie Miller, someone who can hold the ball, make space for himself and deliver telling passes.
David, Scotland

All my fellow Scots are equally disgusted

Rab McNaught, Scotland

Patience! Patience! As others have pointed out Vogts should only be judged on competitive matches, when he has built a team that he thinks can do the job. Building from the ground up is the only way to go.
Chris MacKenzie, Scotland

This is the worst Scotland team ever. I'm so gutted by the weak performances that I've decided to start cheering England on at this World Cup.

All my fellow Scots are equally disgusted and feel we have been let down by the team. We demand results, or we'll be in danger of slipping below Wales in the FIFA rankings.
Rab McNaught, Scotland

Vogts is right to try the youngsters out. They can only learn from their defeats and more will come. It's giving them an indication on what they need to develop at international level.

The old firm youngsters especially Jamie Smith and Maurice Ross should be included more. The likes of MacNamara, Gary Holt, Robbie Winters are more or less fully developed as players and it's a good thing they are not selected because they are not good enough.

The English have benefited from their youth academies but they were introduced years ago.

Give Vogts time and we'll soon get the results

Anton Caulfield, Scotland

Only time will tell if Berti has a winning formula and who are we to question his football brain as he has been involved in football at elite level for many years unlike most of us who have only watched the game on TV or played at average levels.
Brian Leavy, Scotland

Although Scotland were soundly beaten yesterday, let's not forget that this was only Vogts' third game in charge. The man needs time to see all the players at his disposal, and then decide on how to fit them in to his plans.

The media said that he would be given time to build a team, but today they are questioning his appointment. Give Vogts time and we'll soon get the results. Maybe now the Scottish public and media will recognise the great job that Craig Brown done. Good luck at Preston Craig!
Anton Caulfield, Scotland

Berti Vogts is a manager of many abilities. He shocked Europe in 96 with Germany where he compiled a bunch of losers and won the Cup. He can certainly turn Scotland's luck too.
Hamid Khan, UK

The Scots looked very tired, maybe due to the fatigue caused by the long flight to Korea. They didn't look ready for the game. Yes, the Scots gave the Korean side a gift: confidence against European teams. We were lucky. I know the Scotland team is one of the more formidable teams. I like this team with powerful players. Go Celts!!
Kim Shi-Jin, Korea

Why is Gary Holt not in the Scottish national team?

Archie, England

I'm all for giving youngsters a chance in the team but unfortunately Vogts is picking the wrong ones. He seems to think any player at Rangers, Celtic or an English club are superior to anyone available. The fact is, Gavin Rae, Charlie Miller, Robbie Winters, Steven Hammell, Barry Smith and Barry Nicholson to name just a few, are much better players than the Old Firm reserves and Anglos that have been picked up to now.
Darrin Frew, Scotland

Having seen the Div One play-off final, why is Gary Holt not in the Scottish national team? Vogts is obsessed with playing reserve team players who do not match up to players like Holt and MacKay. Get a life Vogts, choose some proven players
Archie, England

The sixty-four thousand dollar question is, why is there such a dearth of football talent in Scotland? Maybe if we got rid of the fancy training facilities and manicured fields for our youngsters and went back to playing with a tanner ba' between lampposts on the street as we did when I was a boy, some of the magical skills would return.

And with all the cars they'd have to dodge these days, maybe the speed of our players would reach a competitive level again.
Rob Murray, USA

I totally agree with Mr McVey's comments below.

Trying new faces / ideas is one thing but a team full of under 21s is another.

Anyone who criticises Vogts doesn't know what he is talking about.

Kenny, Scotland

Why aren't the likes of Charlie Miller, McNamara, Cameron even Winters (!) being considered?

I appreciate that a few youngsters had to be blooded to move things forward but we are fast coming to the point where the national team is becoming an embarrassment.

How much more "blooding" is required before the Vogts / the SFA sees sense?

It seems that the majority of Craig Brown's detractors are having to eat some humble pie now.
Gordon Gourlay, Scotland

Anyone who criticises Vogts doesn't know what he is talking about. Scotland's team against South Korea contained only three players who are regular starters. They were poor and got knocked off the ball easily but the young players are still growing physically. We will perform better against South Africa.
Kenny, Scotland

It's time for some humility. Dobie's goal was positive given the lack of chances the Scots created. How many times have we watched Scots hit woodwork, or send the ball out of the stand? This is character building stuff.

Scots players are no worse than any other nation. Give Bertie the time, and let him do his job. Playing at international level can only do any club player good. Pity Steve Mcmanaman isn't Scottish.
Craig Comerford, France

It's not Vogts' fault though, he might have a tactical solution somewhere

Andrew, UK

Maybe Craig Brown will now get the credit he deserved for constantly getting the very best out of the "talent" available to him. Sadly for Scotland and the Tartan Army especially, the days of qualifying for major tournaments have gone.
Magdalena Stefanska, Poland

A few years ago, the Irish were in a similar situation to Scotland now, but fortunately for them not as severe. Scottish football can't get worse, but it has been headed here for years. The team was still looking to over 30s to qualify for 2002 instead of trying the younger players with the experienced players.

Now, we're left with a situation where there are few players for McNaughton and Co. to learn from. No wonder Barry Ferguson always pulls out through 'injury'. The solution is heavy investment, but that will take years to come to fruition, so in the mean time, it's just going to get worse. It's not Vogts' fault though, he might have a tactical solution somewhere.
Andrew , UK

The best way to improve the talent is for the SFA to bring in player restrictions (with at least 6 player on the pitch fro each team who are eligible to play for Scotland). This would mean that most/all SPL clubs would have to establish a decent academy system and/or transfer system with other SFA clubs. This would prevent teams like Ranger, Celtic and Aberdeen continually buying in foreign players as a quick fix to win a trophy for that season.
Matt, Scotland

Sack Berti Vogts. National Pride Prevails.
Cikki Muffit, Scotland

Let's not start blaming the coach. Vogts said he would bring in younger players and that's what he's done. The younger players are just not a very talented lot with a few exceptions. There just isn't enough money or real effort being put forth by the SFA or the Old Firm into developing young talent and it will take a few years to get it going if and when it happens.
Lachlan Mackenzie, USA

What worries me is the lack of star players for youngsters to admire

Neil C, Scotland

It was an experimental Scotland side playing one in which established players were playing to be selected at the World cup. In addition, it was doubtless very humid. While the performance was clearly poor, it would be a mistake to hit the panic button. Scotland fans can't have it both ways. Brown was criticised for sticking with ageing and predictable teams. But Vogts is looking to the future. The team may be poor now, but we have to be patient and recognise that getting gubbed now, painful as it is, is part of the process of building a team that could compete in 2 or 4 years time.
Stu, Belgium

C'mon guys... Didn't the whole country beg for someone to come in after Craig Brown and have the courage to put in some young players and experiment a bit??? Yes we've lost 3 games out of 3 but exactly how many points did we lose? None.

These friendlies are specifically there for Vogts to look at as many players as he can so that, when the time comes to get serious and put out our strongest team, he knows exactly what he has to pick from. Also remember that he was without a large number of players through injury etc.

Don't have such short memories and give the guy a chance before you jump on his back and moan that he's doing exactly what we asked him to do when he got the job!!!
Paul Clark, Scotland

What worries me is the lack of star players for youngsters to admire, and try to emulate. Once upon a time, Scotland had heroes like Souness, Dalglish, Hansen and McCoist. Who will kids playing in the local park pretend to be these days? David Beckham or Michael Owen, perhaps?
Neil C, Scotland

I think too much is being made of an essentially meaningless friendly against a team that would have played their full team. Three friendly losses in a row does not mean a lot. Most of the guys that played would not probably start in the European qualifiers. Vogts needs to look at as many players as possible, I would rather he did this now rather than later. We Scots are far too negative about our national team. Give the manager and the young players a break.
Alasdair, New Zealand

Scotland has never had a great team or a run of great results

Duncan Torrance, USA

What a complete disgrace. The first things Scotlan should do now, without any further delay whatsoever, is to get rid of Berti Vogts. Unless, of course they want to continue down the same miserable road led to them by the dour Craig Brown and Andy Roxbrough. The team is useless, and there is no morale whatsoever. A long far cry days from the days when Scotland had men of character, and were led by one. Why Ally MacLeod is still seen in a bad light, I don't know. The current situation shows the complete lack of ambition. Until that bore Vogts goes, there will be more of the same.
Mark Lenczner, Japan

I am currently working in Korea and attended the game in Pusan. Scotland looked very jaded as if they had just stepped off the plane and so it was expected that the home team would play the better football. The scoreline could have been more for Korea however the Scotland goalkeeper was very poor for three of the goals, in general Vogts has a big job to put together a decent Scotland team for the future, Korea were flattered against poor opposition and will be brought back to earth when they play England next. Overall the upcoming games are something to look forward too and will surely be a big success.
John Wilson, South Korea

Let's be honest apart from the once in a blue moon performance Scotland has never had a great team or a run of great results. The real tartan army realized this years ago. The game is just an excuse to travel to another country for a party. So we should get Berti to stop arranging games with decent sides and try setting up matches with some countries that we might have a chance of winning against. But the main priority should be countries that are nice places to go and visit like Bhutan or Montserrat for example.
Duncan Torrance, USA

The amusing thing is that when England are kicked out of the world cup, whether it be in the first round or on penalties in the semi-finals, you can bet your last dollar that the Scots will be on this site gloating. Despite the fact that their current team is probably worthy of a ranking somewhere in between Honduras and American Samoa.
Andrew, New Zealand

This trip to the far side of the world is exactly what Scotland needed

Laughland Boyd, Canada

Let me get this straight. We sucked when we had Brown in charge, doing it the old way of playing only Scottish born players, for a number of years and people could not wait to cut him loose as soon as World Cup qualifying was over. Now we have a new man in charge who for the most part is treating his first few games as a tryout for future players and people are ready to jump off the nearest bar stool.

It was quite apparent to everybody not blinded by nationalism that a little change would not fix things. The old way of doing things needed to be blown away, forgotten and a fresh approach tried.

This trip to the far side of the world is exactly what Scotland needed. No soft touch games against non-qualifying teams. Show them exactly what will be required of them in the near future. Any player who does not learn anything from this trip should be dropped and get somebody else in.

The chances of Scotland qualifying again for either Euro or The World Cup have been greatly diminished with the explosion of soccer nations in Europe. It will take a much more focused approach for Scotland to earn her ticket to either grand party. I do not want Euro96 to be the last time I see them play live in these tournaments.
Laughland Boyd, Canada

Whilst Scotland's recent results have not been promising, let's give Berti a chance. He is well aware of the established older players at his disposal and he needs time to find the right blend. The last three internationals have all been friendlies so not much is lost there. However, having said that he must be careful and ensure players morale is not affected. He must also implement a strict timeline to put together his ideal side so the players can get familiar with one another. After all, experimenting too much will be counter productive. Only once this has happened will we see some promising results from Berti and Scotland.
Douglas Thomson, Hong Kong

We are never happy are we! Moan, moan, moan!

Donald Munn, Scotland

When Scotland defeated France 2-0 in a world cup qualifier over 10 years ago France decided to completely revamp their soccer infrastructure from top to bottom. Look at them now. Unless a similar framework is put into place now Scottish football will deteriorate to the status of a third world power and we will wait another 20 years before we qualify for another world cup, like Hungary, another nation with a great football history. Berti cannot make silk sporrans out of a pigs breakfast!
Boyd McCamon, Australia

We are never happy are we! Moan, moan, moan! Craig Broon played too many old guys and now we are being too experimental. Berti is quite correct in casting his net wide. These games mean nothing in real terms except they an opportunity to try out different players and if we lose so what! I expect when we play Denmark later in the summer we will see a few more familiar faces and a stronger team. If Berti can find a couple of players from this series of games he will have achieved something.
Donald Munn, Scotland

We need to establish a world class academy along the lines of the New Zealand rugby school - state of the art. The Old Firm should take responsibility to find a finance package with the public sector and or lottery sources to put right the basic problem, a dearth of talent. The French have shown that this can be successfully done.
Gareth McKillop, Britain

Can Scottish football get any worse? I've been watching football since I was a kid and I don't think I've ever been so uninterested in football. No premier league in 2 years, a terrible national side and clubs being declared bankrupt left, right and centre.

I hope we don't get the Euro championships so we don't embarrass ourselves.
D Nairn, Scotland

Surely a Scottish manager could have managed three defeats out of three?

Neil McDonald, Scotland

I'm really quite glad we didn't qualify for the World Cup as I think we probably would have embarrassed ourselves. At least now we can sit back and watch England do the same.
Robert Salmond, UK

Surely a Scottish manager could have managed three defeats out of three?
Neil McDonald, Scotland

Oh dear. It seems that Scotland are really going down the pipe. The lack of competition in the SPL and the influx of foreigners is contributing to a situation where Scotland have no quality players available for the national team. I am fearing for the future of football.
Dan Stewart, UK

Vogts insists on playing Old Firm reserves and time and again they will prove that if they are not good enough to play at club level then they cannot hope to compete at international level. Picking all these obscure wannabee Scots from England is also a recipe for disaster. After Vogts' calamitous reign at Kuwait and Leverkusen, I fear for the future.
Scott Forsyth, Scotland

Perhaps the time has come to aggressively pursue English players with Scottish ancestry, a la Big Jack's Ireland.
Auggie Guildersleeve, USA

Let's get back to basics

John McVey, Scotland

The time has come to stop all the experimentation. It's time to consolidate the team, rather than constantly chopping and changing. A good team needs to play together at every opportunity to achieve consistently good results, just as France do and does.

This is not currently happening because too many of the players have never played together before or have never encountered the other players before and are therefore unaccustomed to their style of play.

There are several players who should be in the squad but for some inexplicable reason are not included. These are Charlie Miller, Jackie McNamara, Gavin Rae, and Colin Cameron.

While they all play for disparate clubs, each are familiar enough with each other's style to be able to form an effective team. Berti's problem stems from using too many experienced players.

Or to put it another way, there are too many stars trying to become players, where, as with Craig Brown, real nitty-gritty players were sought first and foremost. Let's get back to basics.
John McVey, Scotland