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Page last updated at 19:24 GMT, Thursday, 13 September 2007 20:24 UK

India v Scotland as it happened

India v Scotland - Match abandoned without a ball bowled


By Mark Mitchener


1939: Many thanks to those of you who have stuck with the live text here through all the rain - as they say, "You're Hardcore!". I'll be back tomorrow to bring you the live text for Australia-England and India-Pakistan - thank you and good night.

(And if I had a pound for every e-mail we received today pointing out the connection between England's opening pair of Maddy-Prior and the singer from Steeleye Span, I'd be a very rich man!)

Rain delay
1935: That's it - match abandoned without a ball bowled. Both sides take one point each - so Pakistan go through, and whether India join them depends on the India-Pakistan game tomorrow.

"Any thoughts of domed stadiums being built for cricket with retractable roofs similar to baseball?"
Joe, Pennsylvania, USA, in the TMS inbox

"I made a little web page that helps you figure out the run rates for the Eng-Aus match. Type in the scores as you think they might be (or as they happen) and click calculate. It works out the run rates and gives you the final standings. Feel free to refer to me as an almighty nerd if you mention this"
Tom, Essex in the TMS inbox

The BBC is not responsible for the content of external websites. And Tom? You're an almighty nerd. ;-)

"The exact formula for the number of overs Australia have to win in is 20-(925800/(239x+56366)) where x is England's total, assuming an interrupted match, and assuming that Australia score one more. If England scored 140, Australia would have to get them in 9.4 overs. If England scored 100, Australia would need to get 101 in 8.2 overs. If England were all out for 79 like Australia were in 2005, Australia would still only have 7.4 overs to get them"
Jonathan Liew in the TMS inbox

"There is a Mark Mitchener who is a professional poker player - although just how professional is open to debate. His total earnings are $36,963 (isn't it easy now we only have to divide by two?) and he is ranked 5734 in Division 2. Any other sporting stars sharing their name with sporting commentary legends?"
Leon, Yorkshire, in the TMS inbox [You're too kind - MM]

"I wonder what would happen if this India-Scotland match AND the India-Pakistan match gets rained off. India with two points in the bag, would be in the next round without having PLAYED a match! That would be cruel on the Scots?"
Toby in the TMS inbox

"I am in Houston, Texas. Anyone any ideas where to get cricket on TV? Apart from paying $100 per match on some pay-per-view channel? On current Twenty20 form, the Aussies will be home in time to watch their countrymen beat the Welsh at rugby"
James, Houston, in the TMS inbox [Go Astros! - MM]

Rain delay
1920: We could be nearing a conclusion here, given that (a) play needs to start by 2000 BST in order to play a 5-over game, and (b) they need half-an-hour to get the ground ready, the feeling here is that if it's still raining by 1930, that may be it and they may have to call it off.

"Baz - nearly right. On England batting second, spot on. On England batting first, the calculation comes out at 12 overs and one ball. This is because England's run rate would be 7.5, so Australia's would have to be 12.4 (151/12.4 = 12.2) in order to turn +2.5 into -2.4. I enjoyed sport so much at University that I ended up with a third class Maths degree, but was very popular as a scorer at darts. This is a completely pedantic argument, of course, but then I am a mathematician watching descriptions of rain whilst waiting for Scotland to play cricket (to some, that might seem a bit sad...)"
Phil, Derby, in the TMS inbox

"I am fasting and was hoping to catch some of the cricket before I was allowed to start eating again. This is very disappointing, however nothing can be done to prevent the weather from changing. I was starting to think the World Twenty20 was making up for the World Cup. I hope India v Pakistan goes ahead!"
Adanan Khan in the TMS inbox

"For Harsha, looking for a bar in midtown Manhattan - there's an Irish bar (cunningly called The Irish Bar, I think) on 7th between 53rd & 54th. Walk towards Central Park past the Sheraton New York & Towers & it's on the right. They show UK football, rugby, cricket & so on, have Sky & are amenable to channel changing if necessary"
Richard, Northampton, in the TMS inbox

"Even though the weather gives Scotland a better chance of qualifying, it's a shame as was looking forward to this Twenty20 clash, Five5 is almost a lottery. Wonder how Boycott and Tavare would have fared with that, play themselves in for four overs to get a feel of the pitch maybe?"
Darren, Stornoway, in the TMS inbox

"I have to agree with Baz on the NRR swing and I've got a 2nd class maths degree too. England need to avoid defeat by 98 if Aus bat first. If England bat first and score 200, then they have to ensure Aus don't knock the runs off inside 11 overs; if England score 150 then Aus cannot get the runs in less than 10 overs"
Chris in the TMS inbox

"On the subject of Scotland going through to the Super 8's without winning a game and meeting England, it is about time that this fixture happens in some shape or form. A cricketing Tartan Army at Lord's would be magic. We wouldn't even rip the turf up. We Scots actually want England to win at cricket, and if you take the viewer stats of the 2005 Ashes series, 27.8% of the viewing figures was to be found in Scotland. All conjecture though as the Scots will not go through"
Richard Young, Eaglesham, in the TMS inbox

Rain delay
1900: This is your half-hourly public service announcement - for those of you just joining us, we're still awaiting the start of India v Scotland in Durban, which was due to start at 1700 BST but has been delayed by rain. The covers are still on.

Now that we've lost more than an hour of play, if and when they do start, they will reduce the number of overs both sides face - down to a minimum of five overs.

Scotland won the toss, asked India to bat first, and teams have been named. As soon as they're likely to start again, we'll let you know.

"On behalf of all non-Geordie northerners, please, don't say we sound like Alan Shearer!"
Peter J, South Shields in the TMS inbox

"First, early dismissal in the World Cup, then weather in Scotland. Now, with the unseasonal weather in Durban, it is actually possible that we will not see an India v Pakistan match in 2007! I can't bear it!"
Haroon Jahed in the TMS inbox

"Could someone please suggest places to watch cricket in Midtown Manhattan as well?"
Harsha in the TMS inbox

"I have used a spreadsheet AND I have a 1st class maths degree. To illustrate, if Aus score 200 (off 20 overs) and England are 100 all out, then England's net run rate is -1.25 (7.20 - 8.45, where 7.20 is 288 runs (188+100) off 40 overs and 8.45 is 338 (138+200) runs off 40 overs.) Which compares to Zimbabwe's net run rate of -1.20. The actual breakeven point for England in this scenario is to be within 97 runs of Australia's score. It's more complicated if England bat first, but my earlier comments still stand"
Paul Allen in the TMS inbox

"Coincidentally, I went to a Five5 game between Essex and Kent two years ago. However this was at Chelmsford... and we annihilated Kent!"
Ryan from Essex in the TMS inbox

"Can we do soundalikes? Paul Collingwood sounds quite like Alan Shearer"
KP [no, not THAT KP], Newcastle, in the TMS inbox

As Colly is a true Sunderland fan, I'm sure he will not be pleased to have you compare him to a Newcastle legend - let's hope Colly's not logged on to this! (Though if you are, Colly, send us an e-mail - don't be shy)

"I am an Indian living in Chicago, and I can't believe this match is going to get rained off. I am sitting in my Portfolio and Futures management class and just hoping that there is a game today. I don't want to see India get kicked out in the first round again. I just hope that tomorrow they thrash Pakistan, a good matchup between the two sides is long overdue"
Abhinav Hasija in the TMS inbox

"I hope the India-Scotland game starts soon - I haven¿t done a stitch of work all morning"
Gautam, USA, in the TMS inbox

"FYI, 1st class maths graduate, the run rate calculation is performed over the full 40 overs batted and fielded of this phase of the competition, so if Australia bat first we have to lose by 98, not 76. And for an England total of 150, Australia would need to get there in less than 10 overs not 14"
Baz, 2nd class maths graduate, in the TMS inbox

"In the worst case scenario (if not even five overs are bowled), India and Scotland would share a point each, which puts Pakistan through to the Super 8's. What do India need to do in such a situation?"
Ravi (my left hand's middle finger now has an inverted impression of F5) in the TMS inbox

Ravi, we reckon if today's game is washed out completely, any kind of win for India tomorrow would put them through - or a no-result. Or, if today's a washout, India could still go through if they lose narrowly to Pakistan and keep their net run-rate better than Scotland's.

"Thanks a million, will try The Cricketers for India-Pakistan tomorrow, Hope it will be a cracker!"
Subin in the TMS inbox

Rain delay
1832: This is your half-hourly public service announcement - for those of you just joining us, we're still awaiting the start of India v Scotland in Durban, which was due to start at 1700 BST but has been delayed by rain.

Now that we've lost more than an hour of play, if and when they do start, they will reduce the number of overs both sides face - down to a minimum of five overs.

Scotland won the toss, asked India to bat first, and teams have been named. As soon as they're likely to start again, we'll let you know.

"On the subject of rain-delayed Twenty20 games, earlier this year I went to the Kent v Essex game at Canterbury that got reduced to Five5. If you think Twenty20 is manic then you have seen nothing till you've seen Five5 - insanity!"
Andy in Orpington in the TMS inbox

"Just to be pedantic, there can't be a tie, there is a bowl out. The teams split the points for 'no result' i.e. a washed out game"
Tony Kennick in the TMS inbox [I stand corrected - MM]

"All this talk of run-rates, leads me to ask: If this match is rained off & then Pakistan thrash India, does that mean Scotland can qualify, and join England in the Super-8s, even though they wouldn't have won a match?"
Phil Whitehead in the TMS inbox

I believe you're right, Phil - and didn't you used to play in goal for Oxford and Reading?

Billy Taylor
Gary Brent
1821: After someone early in the England-Zimbabwe match pointed out the similarity between Zimbabwe keeper Brendan Taylor and Ziggy from Big Brother, here's another lookalike I noticed today - Zimbabwe's Gary Brent and another seamer, Billy Taylor of Hampshire. Any others spotted so far in the World T20?

"I love the fact that an England cricket discussion (on the run-rate issue) has managed to take over a live commentary of a Scotland match!"
Thomas Read in the TMS inbox

Apologies, Thomas - although I'm sure there may be one or two people from north of the border who would like to see their "auld enemy" England on the first plane home?!

Rain delay
1800: This is a public service announcement - for those of you just joining us, we're still awaiting the start of India v Scotland in Durban, which was due to start at 1700 BST but has been delayed by rain.

Now that we've lost more than an hour of play, if and when they do start, they will reduce the number of overs both sides face. So it could be anything from a 19-over game to a five-over game.

The toss has been made - Scotland won the toss, asked India to bat first, and teams have been named. But persistent rain has prevented any play so far. As soon as they're likely to start again, we'll let you know.

In the meantime, we've been discussing (below) what mathematical permutations would allow England and/or Australia to qualify tomorrow via the evil god known as Net Run Rate - while also recommending where Subin can watch cricket at a bar in Paris. But I think we've just about settled both those (see below). To repeat, if Australia fail to win, they're out - no matter what the run rate.

"Just a hunch, but perhaps the Cricketers in Paris would be a good place to see cricket. It's at 41, rue des Mathurins 75008"
Jim, London, in the TMS inbox

"For England to go out there needs to be a net run rate swing of 3.7 runs per over against them. In a 20-over game this corresponds to losing by more than 76 runs if chasing. If batting first, it's more complicated to work out, but if England put 150 on the board, say, they would be out if Australia knocked them off in less than 14 overs"
Joe, 1st class Maths graduate, Enfield, in the TMS inbox

"Subin... try O'Briens on rue St Dominique - it has Sky Sports and if you ask nicely, they might put it on for you"
Matt Atkinson in the TMS inbox

"For Subin, I used to live in Paris and there are three pubs - The Longhop, The Bowler and The Cricketer. You'd have to fancy that they'd be showing some cricket in there or it would be a travesty! You could also try the Frog and Rosbif"
Andrew in the TMS inbox

"Net run rate calculation for England goes something like this - England currently have +2.5, Zimbabwe have -1.2. The difference is 3.7 between those two values. If Australia bat first - England need to get within 74 runs of the Australia total in order to stay ahead of Zimbabwe (since 3.7 x 20 is 74). If England bat first it is more complex - to stay ahead they will need to prevent Australia from winning quickly - exactly how quickly is going to depend on England's score. Basically England need to keep Australia batting until Australia's current run rate x number of overs left is less than 74. This will probably happen (if England score 150ish) at around over 13ish"
Andrew Jackson in the TMS inbox [Others have pointed out that any England win, or a no-result, will knock Australia out - MM]

"In response to Subin's request (re: pubs that show cricket in Paris) try The Bowler on Rue Des Artois in the 9th, usually pretty good"
Scott, Birmingham, in the TMS inbox

"As a very crude approximation, if England avoid losing by approximately 25% - e.g. by 50 runs if Australia bat first and score 200, or by the Australians overhauling the England total after 15 overs, England will go through"
Stephen Gould, Long Island NY, in the TMS inbox

"I just wanted to ask fellow listeners if there are good pubs in Paris which show cricket? With rugby and football internationals, cricket's a bit lower on the list for most pubs and I couldn't find a place which shows cricket, can someone recommend one please?"
Subin in the TMS inbox

"I wonder if anybody went to Paris for last night's footie and then got on a plane to South Africa... or even had a bet at the bookies on a Scotland double!"
Ian, near Edinburgh, in the TMS inbox

1730: Here are the teams (in alphabetical rather than any kind of batting order):

India: Ajit Agarkar, Mahendra Dhoni (capt & wk), Gautam Gambhir, Harbhajan Singh, Dinesh Karthik, Irfan Pathan, Virender Sehwag, RP Singh, Sree Santh, Robin Uthappa, Yuvraj Singh.

Scotland: John Blain, Dougie Brown, Gavin Hamilton, Majid Haq, Neil McCallum, Dewald Nel, Navdeep Poonia, Colin Smith (wk), Ryan Watson (capt), Fraser Watts, Craig Wright.

1728: Scotland have won the toss and have put India in. Still raining, though.

Ryan Watson
"The rain has been stop-start, which is a little bit irritating - although we're used to this kind of weather in Scotland!"
Scotland captain Ryan Watson

"Mark, for want of anything interesting happening at the moment, is there anyone out there who understands the rules enough to tell us what the Aussies have to do against England to get through to the next round? If by some miracle each team ends up with one win, who goes through?"
Richard, London looking for reasons not to work, in the TMS inbox

Good question, Richard. First of all, Australia need to win. Anything less than a victory, and they're definitely out. However, an Aussie win would leave all three teams in Group B on two points, with an equal number of wins (1 each) - in which case, it comes down to net run-rate.

The rules say this is how net run-rate is calculated:

A team's net run rate is calculated by deducting from the average runs per over scored by that team throughout the relevant portion of the competition, the average runs per over scored against that team throughout the relevant portion of the competition. In the event of a team being all out in less than its full quota of overs, the calculation of its net run rate shall be based on the full quota of overs to which it would have been entitled and not on the number of overs in which the team was dismissed.

We've put our heads together here, and we reckon any sort of win should be good enough for Australia, as their run-rate is already better than Zimbabwe's. But a heavy defeat for England might see them eliminated if their net run-rate slips below Zimbabwe's. I don't envy the person doing the live text tomorrow if it comes down to net run-rate. Oh dear - it's me.

Rain delay
1716: Clearly, we should have started by now - but the rain has returned and is still holding us up.

1703: If you're listening to Five Live Sports Extra and think you're in Groundhog Day, fear not - it's currently playing a loop of Arlo White explaining that normal coverage will resume when the match is ready to start.

"I think I want your job. Talk about job satisfaction sitting on a comfy couch [not exactly a couch - MM] in London, watching cricket or other sport, merrily tapping away on a keyboard half the day"
A depressed Tom, stuck in an office halfway up a 45-storey building, having sold my soul to be a mindless cog in a big corporation's wheel - in the TMS inbox

1658: The umpires say play will start at 1715 BST (that's 1815 local time). A full game will be played - it's only once an hour or more is lost to the weather, that the number of overs would be reduced.

Jonathan Agnew
Geoffrey Boycott
1653: The other cricket news today which seems to have aroused interest is the publication of a survey in the Wisden Cricketer magazine which shows TMS's own Geoff Boycott is Britain's favourite cricket commentator, after he finished just ahead of BBC cricket commentator Jonathan Agnew. In answer to some of your questions, it wasn't just restricted to TMS - Sky's David Lloyd was third, while rounding out the "dream team" would be Mike Atherton and Michael Holding.

"Mark, my degenerate gambler of a mate has just put £1,100 on India to score more sixes than Scotland at 2/11. Keep an eye out for any and let's wish him good luck"
Jas, London, in the TMS inbox
[BBC Sport does not endorse gambling in any form!]

Rain delay
1648: It still looks pretty damp, but the ground staff have emerged and are starting the mopping-up operation.

1641: For those of you who may have missed the games earlier today, Bangladesh beat the West Indies by six wickets to send the Windies home. Then, England beat Zimbabwe by 50 runs - fairly comfortably in the end, despite a couple of scares. Website users may care to follow the links below.

"The flying time from Cape Town to Durban is about two hours (not counting airport time). So when you say that you are going to do 'live' commentary of the Durban game after having just done the Cape Town game from your 'seat', then where is your seat? Is this another BBC scam?"
George (a South African in Belgium wishing I was in Cape Town) in the TMS inbox

Fear not, George - it's not the glamorous, globe-trotting life for myself, Messrs Dirs & Fordyce et al on the live text duty - the "seat" is in our office at BBC TV Centre in London, where there is at least some sunshine, unlike Durban where the floodlights are illuminating a pretty wet ground.

Rain delay
1631: The bad news from Durban is that one look at the TV pictures tells us that it's chucking it down with rain, the entire square is covered and I can't see us starting on time. But never fear, I'll keep you posted.

1630: Welcome back to those of you who were here to follow the live text for the England-Zimbabwe game - I'm back in the hot seat for this evening's India-Scotland contest.

No team news yet - but Scotland know they need to win to stay in the tournament. But don't rule out their chances entirely, as India are under-strength - with Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar and Sourav Ganguly all having opted out of the tournament.

India, who will be led by wicket-keeper Mahendra Dhoni, have only played one previous international Twenty20 game - when they beat South Africa in December 2006.

see also
The roots of Twenty20
11 Sep 07 |  Cricket
Maddy's guide to Twenty20
10 Sep 07 |  Skills
Bopara's Twenty20 batting guide
08 Sep 07 |  Cricket
ICC World Twenty20 squads
08 Sep 07 |  Cricket
ICC World Twenty20 venues
08 Sep 07 |  Cricket

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