NB: THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A TRANSCRIPTION UNIT RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT: BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MIS- HEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY, IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS ACCURACY. ........................................................................ PANORAMA SECRETS OF THE CAMPS RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC-1 DATE: 29:02:04 ........................................................................ HILARY ANDERSSON: In the 21st Century there are camps in Zimbabwe. Thousands of youths are trapped inside. A nation's children are being trained in terror. Did you think it was okay to torture men? MAN: Yeah it was okay and nice. ANDERSSON: There mission is to keep Robert Mugabe in power. For months at a time many are brainwashed and beaten. They're taught the meaning of pain and how to inflict it on others. WOMAN: She was beaten, tortured by hot plastics, burning plastic, until she died. ANDERSSON: The youths in the camp are given a warning, if they tell the story, they may be killed. DEBBIE: It's a secret for your life, and if you tell anyone, you will die. ANDERSSON: Now President Mugabe has a sinister new plan. He wants to force every youth through the camps. He wants to train millions, a whole generation, to secure his grip on power. GEORGE: I think they are turning them into monsters, people without any conscience, morals. ANDERSSON: For the past four months we've talked to dozens of youths who've escaped the camps and are hiding in South Africa. Their stories are hard to corroborate but the testimonies are consistent. They catalogue a camp system that can break youths down and build them back up into killers. Last year, one woman, Debbie, dared to speak out inside Zimbabwe. She told of the horror she'd been through in the camps. 27th February 2003 The memories were too awful. Debbie was helped to the back of the church, but after the service she was followed. Mugabe's secret police wanted to capture her. Debbie had broken the law of camp secrecy. Debbie managed to flee and is now living in hiding in South Africa. She lives isolated with just her daughter Nou Nus for company. She was kidnapped and forced into the camps. Even here, thousands of miles away, she's afraid of being hunted and found. She doesn't speak easily of her past. DEBBIE: [draws picture] This is the commander. He's wearing a green bombers uniform, and this is a knife here. This is a gun here, a pistol. ANDERSSON: When darkness fell on Debbie's very first night in the camp her journey of horror was about to begin. Zimbabwe's camps have a system of training that breaks down young minds and takes souls. The first stage of training goes on into the small hours. DEBBIE: The boys, they removed the lights at night, ten o'clock, eleven. They removed the lights and they locked the doors and they raped the girls. I was crying and they said: "Don’t cry here, there's not a baby clinic here." And the other girls they are crying. ANDERSSON: On that first night, how many times were you raped? DEBBIE: About three times. ANDERSSON: What happened in the days and the weeks and the months afterwards? Were you raped again? DEBBIE: I was raped again at night. And they said no one can complain because it's a part of training. ANDERSSON: This is the room where Debbie's ordeal took place. We took these pictures secretly when the camp was not operational. Thousands of youths are deployed from places like this at times of political trouble. Schools and community halls are turned into camps, cameras are banned from them all. Daniel was 200 miles away in another camp. He was a junior leader. When he left school, he had hoped to become a carpenter. DANIEL: I raped because I sleep with many girls without any arrangement, just saying: "Come this side, I want to sleep with you." So that one, it's not my girlfriend, just I have been forced her to make that. I have been forced her. ANDERSSON: How many girls do you think you raped? DANIEL: First one, Sfera. There were three, but I was just taking them like my wives because they were in the camp says just give me water for a drink, I want to bath and you take my clothes or go and clean my room or taking my blankets and wash them also. Then they don’t suppose to.. they're not supposed to fight. ANDERSSON: So they were like your slaves. DANIEL: Yeah, I was taking them as my slaves, and to make whatever I want in that time. DEBBIE: The other girls, she was sleeping here. ANDERSSON: What were the names of the… DEBBIE: Sitembile. ANDERSSON: Sitembile. DEBBIE: and Tracy. ANDERSSON: Tracy was sleeping next to you. Debbie shared a blanket with an 11 year old girl called Sitembile. She'd watched helplessly night after night as the little girl was raped too. DEBBIE: She was raped too by the same boy and she was crying. And that boy said: "I'll beat you". And she was getting disease. DANIEL: I was enjoying it because I was only choosing the nice girls but any time where I renewed my mind to what is it I do, I can.. you know.. but by the time.. if I'm doing it, it's okay, you know. ANDERSSON: So you didn't feel the shame at all. DANIEL: If at the time I renew my mind, I get ashamed, but if I'm doing it, I don’t have any shame. It's okay. Harare, Zimbabwe ANDERSSON: In the ministry that overseas Zimbabwe's camps, officials know about the rapes. We've spoken to two men who worked inside. Edward was one. His job was to monitor the camps. He knew about the rapes and sent reports to his superiors EDWARD: You had to file a report and mention names, that so and so has raped so and so, and then that put me in a very tricky position because at the end I had to confront those people who had done that actual rape. We had to hand over the reports to the police. But at the end of the day nothing happened. ANDERSSON: We will call this man George. He worked for the same ministry in a different part of Zimbabwe. He says the rape is an open secret in the government and so is its purpose. GEORGE: Those top officials, they never used to send their children for that national service programme because they knew what was happening there. It's not that they want rape to take place in the camps, it's just that when they are training those people, you are training an individual whom you want to be loyal, dedicated and.. you know.. you are moulding somebody to listen to you. So if it means rapes have to take place in order for that person to take instructions from you, then it's okay. ANDERSSON: In November 2001 President Robert Mugabe arrived in a remote location in the far north east of Zimbabwe. To the world, it past as an unremarkable day. In fact, he was here to open the first of the camps. It was called Border Gezi Zimbabwe state television broadcast propaganda about the new camp. Zimbabwe State Television Zimbabweans are a proud people with a proud history. The Border Gezi Youth Training Centre in Mount Darwin is set to put the Zimbabwean youths on the proper course of knowing their heritage, of knowing their history, and it will become a prerequisite for all those who want to go for tertiary education. UNIFORMED GIRL: Nine youths from all companies both male and female, formed up in a single rank waiting for your inspection Your Excellency. ANDERSSON: The public was told the camps were places where youths aged 12 to 30 could learn job skills like carpentry or sewing. Mugabe called the project the National Youth Service Training Programme. It was in fact his master plan for gaining permanent control of Zimbabwe. Three years later the project has become massive and sinister. This is a camp in Zimbabwe south west. Below are formations of hundreds of children and youths across Zimbabwe are now at least six camps on this scale. It's estimated that 50,000 youths have already passed through them. The morning after her rape, the second stage of Debbie's training began. First they were ordered to sing. Then came hours of merciless physical exertion. Too weak, Debbie went to the commander and said she'd been raped. He punished her for complaining. DEBBIE: My legs were sore and I was weak all over my body. I was bleeding. And they say said: "Go back to training." I was training like soldiers, to run 20 kilometres, and press-ups, 200 press-ups, and to carry 10kg bags of sand. You put it on your back and go up the mountain. If you collapse, you are beaten and they say you are lying. ANDERSSON: The physical training is inhuman, youths run miles on little food. Those who can't take it are punished, often sadistically, it helps break them down. This is Promise. She too was kidnapped and forced into a camp. She witnessed what happens if you try to escape. A girl caught trying was beaten before the whole camp. PROMISE: She was just breathing, only. Everything was just – I don’t know how I can say it – it was full of blood everywhere. I don’t know where it was coming from either, and she was maybe half dead or something like that. She started screaming but ended up just quiet. ANDERSSON: Were you afraid? PROMISE: Yes, I was afraid but you mustn't show, you're supposed not to show them that you are afraid. You have to be brave because we were told that we are soldiers in the camps. ANDERSSON: Often the youths are starved of food for days at a time. But endurance is only part of the training. They're here to learn how to keep Mugabe in power and how to deal with his opponents. Debbie was taught how to kill. DEBBIE: They teach to kill people, watch to beat in the head with steel and stones until that people die. And like shoelaces and.. ANDERSSON: What did they teach you to do with shoelaces? DEBBIE: To… (indicating neck) hang people. ANDERSSON: To strangle them? DEBBIE: Yes. ANDERSSON: Can you show me? DEBBIE: Like that (indicating lace around throat) ANDERSSON: Daniel had joined his camp voluntarily. He'd hoped to develop his skills as a carpenter. Instead, he too was taught how to kill. DANIEL: We have got teddy bears. ANDERSSON: Teddy bear? DANIEL: Yeah, using like a person, how to beat a person. ANDERSSON: So they put a teddy bear in front of you. DANIEL: Yeah, a big teddy bear, it was big. ANDERSSON: Can you show me how to do that on a teddy bear, once you had the teddy bear. DANIEL: Yeah, just put the teddy bear, just to hold him strong, and then closing his mouth. After closing his mouth then someone just hold you somewhere here or just to twist your.. you know.. just to twist you here (indicates breaking of neck). ANDERSSON: We filmed covertly inside Zimbabwe. An opponent of the government had persuaded a camp commander to talk to us. It's the first time a camp commander has ever been interviewed, and he feared the risk. COMMANDER: The intelligence of this country is very, very, very mobile and you see they are very, very… So I was scared, I thought that you were setting me a trap. ANDERSSON: The Commander confirmed that youths of all ages are also taught to use guns in his camp. The camps hold children as young as 11. COMMANDER: We train them how to use those weapons. Although we don’t.. we concentrate them as soldiers but there is a period where we train them how to use those guns. ANDERSSON: When Border Gezi Camp was formally opened in late 2001 the rape and military training was already well underway. Mugabe had his propaganda to disguise the reality. How has your stay been like here at Border Gezi Training Centre? UNIFORMED GIRL: It was okay. Tell us other things which you think really made your stay here pleasurable. UNIFORMED GIRL: We were sometimes.. during weekends we were playing netball or basketball after training. ANDERSSON: This is some of the only footage ever shot inside a camp. President Mugabe wanted to see how his idea was progressing and for a rare moment state cameras were allowed in. This camp, a former military base, is built up of makeshift bunkers, some for cooking, some for sleeping and others for learning. The next vital stage of training is an intense programme of indoctrination. The youths are taught to think like Mugabe. Edward, back in the ministry, only qualified for his job monitoring the camps after going through the process of psychological training himself. EDWARD: They have to deal with you physically and then they have to take out the stuff which you have in your mind and then put in the new stuff which is literally brainwashing. ANDERSSON: Is that what they told you? EDWARD: Yes. ANDERSSON: That they wanted…. EDWARD: Yes, they want to empty your mind out and then once you're called in, you go with an empty mind. ANDERSSON: This is a lesson taking place inside a camp. The youths are taught Mugabe's own version of history. The manual they learn from is written by the President himself. The lesson is simple and racist. Mugabe and his party Zanu, are the heroes of blacks. The opposition party, the MDC is backed by whites and is bad. Questioning this is forbidden. EDWARD: I was taught that the enemy was obviously the opposition and mostly the whites. Those were the main enemies of Zimbabwe. ANDERSSON: Mugabe repeats this message again and again to the youth and the nation. Enemies of the state, enemies of Mugabe's party Zanu must be made to repent. 11th August 2003 MUGABE: There cannot be unity with the enemies of the people, enemies of the struggle and the enemies of our independence. Speak the same language, act the same acts, do the same things, think alike, walk alike, dream alike. ANDERSSON: From the next stage of training there is no return. In many camps the youths are banned from talking to each other or making friends. Isolated from their families and exhausted, they're often plied with alcohol and cannabis, it eases the path of what's to come. Why did you give people beer and drugs? DANIEL: To let them to be.. so they don’t have any worry, to do whatever I told them to do without any shame, you know.. because if you get ashamed, you never do anything. Because what you want to drink those beers just to little disturb your mind. ANDERSSON: This part of training is a terrible test, a test of dedication. Some are made to attack their own families. After that they can never go home. They are bound in blood to their new family Zanu. PROMISE: They started beating him, and then I was forced to also because some of the people know that it was my uncle. The commander commanded me to beat my uncle. And his own two kids also were there and were also given some sticks to beat thoroughly and then he had injuries, he was broken in the back bone. ANDERSSON: His backbone was broken? PROMISE: Yes, he can't walk anymore. ANDERSSON: How did you feel at the time when you were beating your own uncle? PROMISE: I was crying but there was no because I was also beaten and there was nothing I can do. But this thing even now is just giving me problems. It's like still new, when maybe I am sleeping and I have some nightmares of that. Maybe I end up screaming. ANDERSSON: In his camp Daniel was put to the test too, but as a junior leader, his mind was clearer. When he was sent to beat his own cousin for sympathising with Mugabe's opponents he saw the logic. DANIEL: I tried to tell them: "No guys, this one's my cousin, don’t do that." ANDERSSON: So what happened? Did you beat your cousin? DANIEL: Yeah, they beat him. They beat him. ANDERSSON: Did you beat him? DANIEL: Yeah, I beat him because I'm the leader and I'm supposed to beat him and then we beat another cousin. ANDERSSON: Why would you make someone beat a member of their own family? DANIEL: Even if it's my brother or my daddy, I must beat him because in that time it's what we must do. We are campaigning for ZANU. ANDERSSON: Every hundred days or so, around 10,000 youths graduate, they're ready to be sent out into Zimbabwe. But these thousands aren't enough for Mugabe. In the last few months he's doubled the camps' budget. Mugabe now plans to push every youth in Zimbabwe through the camps. He wants millions, a whole generation, and there's a reason why. The Camp Commander has already had his instructions. Zimbabwe has elections next year. The job of the youth militia is to ensure Mugabe wins. COMMANDER: Next year is an election time in this country, so these guys are going to be used by the ruling party. Our main concern is that we keep this opposition party out of power, right or wrong. But our main concern is to keep it out of power. ANDERSSON: The youths have now started appearing on the streets of most towns. The trained include children of just 12. They're capable of atrocities and are known for extreme violence. They inspire fear wherever they go. For the past three years as they fought for Mugabe, it's only taken a few thousand to have a devastating impact. These were the attacks on white owned farms. In 2001 Mugabe faced serious opposition and elections were looming. His allies began these invasions often the use with their troops, some of the attacks were utterly vicious. Mugabe hoped that letting blacks grab land quickly would win him support in time for the polling. Just before the elections, two years later, over 100 militia camps like this sprung up around Zimbabwe, many of them right next to polling stations. Mugabe went on the campaign trail as the democrat. Behind the scenes the youths were assaulting thousands of his opponents. At opposition rallies they unleashed their venom in public. Human rights groups believe tens of thousands of MDC supporters were beaten, some raped, in the space of a few weeks. Dozens were killed. Mugabe won the elections. The militia were ecstatic at the victory they'd secured him. With the farms in crisis Zimbabwe spiralled into apocalyptic decline and then came the great hunger. Mugabe's regime now disciplines its opponents by controlling the food, again the youths are the tool. This is Kadoma, they hover on the streets and the people are scared. At government food distribution points like this, the youths make sure only those with ZANU party cards get maize. DANIEL: Anyone who want to get a bag must approach with his ZANU PF card. And one bag per person. And village chairmen know if that person is for ZANU. ANDERSSON: So if someone didn't have a ZANU card, would they get food? DANIEL: He's not getting food. ANDERSSON: Did you beat people in food queues if they didn't have a card? DANIEL: Yes, because they're making violence so if you are not understanding what we are saying and want to fight, and then I can call my group and then they beat you. ANDERSSON: The camps and militia activities put Zimbabwe in clear violation of human rights accords that are signed. But now Robert Mugabe has gone a step further. He's adopted the tactic of torture to terrify the masses. Some youths who do well in the camps are taught the technology of pain, how to measure it precisely and inflict it. Daniel was selected for the training. His camp had a special cage for electrical torture. DANIEL: They told us if we are starting to torture of if we want to go torture you with electric, you are first of all pouring you with water. Then remove your shoes and socks, then from there you are put in.. putting you inside of that cage. ANDERSSON: This man Joseph was tortured, first by state intelligence, then by the youth militia. He was an opposition supporter. JOSEPH: They were shocking me on my genitals with a.. it looks like a clip and I passed out several times. ANDERSSON: When the youths torture with electricity they first douse the victim in water, then make him stand on a wet sack. DANIEL: So you can go on top of that small sack, then one has already been connected with those electric wires down there. And then I will just hold one and then I will just touch you and then that one press on. Not to fit it on top like this, just one two, one two, so just shocking. If it's shocking you and then you start to tell us information. DOCTOR: Joseph, you told me that you had a lot of beatings and electrical shocks to your feet, as far as your feet were concerned. DANIEL: First of all it was… ANDERSSON: Joseph had already survived eight days of torture before the worst night of his life. DOCTOR: What I would like you to do is to try and grasp my finger and hold it as hard as you can. ANDERSSON: Joseph was brought from his cell to a field where he became a human prop in a night time training session for the militia. As a result of what happened, he has severe damage to his nervous system. JOSEPH: I was tied to a pole with my head down and my legs were tied with chains to a very big pole. ANDERSSON: You were hung upside-down? JOSEPH: Yes. And what happened is they untied my hands and I was injected with another dose of that injection they gave me the other time on my genital parts, and I was in that position and I was trying to hold my private parts because it was very painful. It felt like it was about to explode. And the sensation was coming straight to my head. And those guys, they were singing and chanting slogans. ANDERSSON: The camp commander we spoke to admitted for the first time that the youths do torture in camps across Zimbabwe. How as water used? COMMANDER: Water, you see we get a bag whereby you can put about two or three 20-litre tins, then the person puts his head in, they tie it around the neck, we lifted the bag, the water comes on top of the person as if he is drowning. ANDERSSON: Daniel was corrupted and his mind had been emptied. He found torturing easy. Did you feel ashamed of what you were doing? DANIEL: You wont feel ashamed because you have been drunken and we don’t know what we are doing. ANDERSSON: So did you think it was okay to torture men? DANIEL: Yeah, it was okay and nice. ANDERSSON: It was nice? DANIEL: If you are doing that, you can enjoy because of your mind has been disturbed. JOSEPH: Some were simply looking at you straight in the eye, you know.. Those youths are, most of them they have been turned into sort of zombies. They are people who cannot reason on their own. ANDERSSON: Since the camps began, the youths have severely tortured thousands of Zimbabweans according to human rights groups. At the ministry officials have long been aware of this training. And you knew about this in the ministry? EDWARD: Yes, the ministry knew about it. ANDERSSON: Was it official policy? EDWARD: It wasn't the official policy as such, because I mean various commanders would use various methods of training or of torture, of however or whatever they deemed as part of torture, dependent on the commander and the extent of what he wanted the people to know how to torture. ANDERSSON: When you found out about this, that torture was being taught in the camps, did you do anything about it? EDWARD: Yes, I wrote several reports on that and nothing happened. And instead those people who were doing the torturing phoned me back and threatened that how can you report such an incident, it means you are not as patriotic as you are supposed to be, you are not doing your job as faithfully as you are supposed to do. ANDERSSON: Debbie testifies to witnessing the ultimate crime and now in South Africa she has to move from safe house to safe house. The youth militia have long been suspected of killing those who oppose Mugabe. One night, in early 2002, five militia from her camp were sent to attack a man outside the gates. Debbie was there. DEBBIE: They stick the head with knife and it was bleeding, the head, and others was beating all over the body. And they were beating him with steel on the head, and the other boys, they came two, three boys and they said to the boss: "That man is dead" and the boss he said: "Good job" to the boys. ANDERSSON: We haven't been able to corroborate the story of murder but the older boys in Debbie's camp told her where they buried the man's body, and those of others they killed. It was here, near a village called Hope Fountain. DEBBIE: The commanders they said: "All of you back to the camp." They.. all the boys they removed T- shirt, and they gave them to other girls and they said: "You must wash all the blood." And they said: "Let's go to bury them in Hope Fountain mountain." ANDERSSON: Promise, once an ordinary teenager, lived in terror in her camp. She was raped every night. After a month she was ordered to take part in the murder of an old lady. She obeyed. PROMISE: She was beaten, tortured by hot plastics.. burning plastic until she died. She was screaming, I can't even say it, other things. She even messed herself until she died. And some people they were busy singing, dancing. ANDERSSON: What were you doing? PROMISE: I beat her also but I remember I ended up when they were torturing her with the plastic, we were busy singing. ANDERSSON: How did you feel? What was going through your mind whilst you were beating this lady? PROMISE: I really felt scared. It was my first time to see somebody dead in my life, and the way how she was beaten, or the way how she died. I was very, very afraid of that. ANDERSSON: Because the militia often operate in plain clothes, their murders can go unseen. But remarkably the camp commander revealed details of killings by youths in his camp two years ago. How many people have been killed? COMMANDER: You see in this one, I am sure in the area I am covering I heard of two. ANDERSSON: Why were they killed? COMMANDER: For furthering the interest of the opposition party. ANDERSSON: Who gave the instructions for them to be killed? COMMANDER: My superiors instructed that these people must be eliminated. ANDERSSON: In the Ministry of Youth, George sat in meetings where lists of the targeted were openly discussed. GEORGE: People used to prepare lists of people who were supposed to be beaten up or tortured or even killed in some instances. ANDERSSON: How would killings be discussed in meetings that you were at? GEORGE: Somebody will just say: "Ah, we went on Saturday to this other area and we beat up people. Ah, by the way, one of the guys died. So those people I guess now they've got a lesson. You know" And we would say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." It wasn't really much of a thing. It's like you're describing the result of a match between Manchester United and Arsenal. It's not really something to write home about. ANDERSSON: No one knows how many the youths have killed, but many of the dozens we spoke to said they had direct knowledge of a murder. It's been impossible to prove all the stories told by the individuals in this programme but their testimonies are broadly consistent with those of more than 60 others who've spoken to human rights groups. We've put these allegations to Zimbabwe's government but they haven't responded. Publicly they maintain that the camps are valuable job training centres. Robert Mugabe feels demonised. 26th March 2003 I am still the Hitler of the times. This is Hitler has only one objective. Justice for his people. Sovereignty for his people. It that is Hitler right, then let me be a Hitler tenfold. ANDERSSON: The thousands who've been through the camps have been corrupted and scarred. Debbie has attempted suicide. She too was made to do terrible things in the camps but can't speak of it. She feels tainted. Now she's found out the rape has left her HIV positive. Her daughter Nou Nus who was born of the rape will be orphaned before she's grown. Do you know who the people were that raped you? Do you know their faces? DEBBIE: Yes, I know their faces. But names I don’t know. ANDERSSON: And how do you feel about those people, what do you think about them now? DEBBIE: I'm feeling so bad. ANDERSSON: Daniel left the camp disillusioned with the conditions and lack of job training. He can never go home because he knows he'll be remembered by his victims. Do you feel bad about what you've done? DANIEL: Yes, it's bad. That's why I'm afraid to go back because it's bad, I know it's bad. On my own I can forget you, but you.. I have beaten you, you will never forget me. You know me proper. GEORGE: I think they are turning them into monsters, people without any conscience or morals. I would say they are sort of creating a generation which will in the later years be a problem because of the past. ANDERSSON: Do you feel guilty about what you're doing? COMMANDER: You see to me, it's part of my duties, you see. It's part of my duties so I will be executing my duties. ANDERSSON: So you think it's acceptable? Do you think it's good what you're doing? Or what do you mean? COMMANDER: It's my job, it's my duty. So you see like a soldier. In fact I'm expecting to be promoted you see. ANDERSSON: You're expecting to be promoted? COMMANDER: Yes. Like any other commander in the forces, he would like to see himself rising through the ranks. ANDERSSON: For almost a quarter of a century, Robert Mugabe has been prepared to use violence to stay on in power. His government is now in gross violation of the rights of thousands of children and youths. Now in his desperation to keep a grip on Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe is willing to convert a generation from innocence to evil. _________ Next week Panorama asks what's the point of the BBC. In a nationwide debate competing visions of the BBC's future. To have your say, visit the website at bbc.co.uk/panorama CREDITS Reporter HILARY ANDERSON Camera RICHARD ATKINSON CRAIG MATTHEW VT Editor BOYD NAGLE Colourist GEOFF HOCKNEY Dubbing Mixer ANDREW SEARS Production Co-ordinator KAREN SADLER Production Assistant SOPHIE LHERNOULT Web Producer ADAM FLINTER Film Research KATE REDMAN DIANA SEDGWICK Research KATHLYN POSNER Graphic Design KEY YIP LAM ALEX NEWBERY Subtitling PAULA GILDER Production Manager GINNY WILLIAMS Unit Manager LAURA GOVETT Film Editor SALLY YEADON Assistant Producer and Camera ANTONIA MESZAROS Producer JONATHAN BRUNERT Deputy Editors ANDREW BELL SAM COLLYNS Editor MIKE ROBINSON 13 _____________________________________________________________________________________________ If you have any queries regarding this programme, please email: panorama@bbc.co.uk