The church teaches that killing is wrong. It would be hypocritical if it saw the opportunity to prevent the killing of a child and yet did nothing.
Paul Monk, UK

Background ¦ Your reaction

The Background:

The Catholic Church in Scotland is paying a pregnant 12-year-old girl to keep her baby.

The girl, who fell pregnant to a boy in her class at school, had been strongly advised by social workers and teachers to have a termination in view of her age.

But her parents contacted a Church scheme that supports pregnant women, set up two years ago by Cardinal Thomas Winning, and asked for financial help so she could see her pregnancy through.

Those in the pro-choice camp see giving the child money to keep her baby as bribery. They accuse the Catholic Church of putting religious principles before common sense.

But pro-life campaigners support the scheme, saying it offers young mothers genuine choice, especially those living on the breadline.

What do you think? Should the Church get involved with such a delicate issue? Is offering a pregnant child financial support to prevent her having an abortion the right kind of help?

Background ¦ Your reaction

Your Reaction:

Read the first comments we received

I have heard a number of representatives of the Catholic Church in Scotland justify their actions in terms of caring for the child. But they have nothing to say about the potential harm to the 12 year old girl, or the millions of children living in poverty because of the lack of access to contraception.
Neither did they have anything to say about the thousands of children abused by Catholic priests and then shunned by their church. The same church that protects the abusers from justice. I'll take no lessons on caring for children from these hypocrites. If there is such a thing as evil, the Catholic Church is a pretty good example of it.
RE, UK

Why has everyone forgotten the childless couples who would love to adopt this baby and give it a proper home. Then the mother can go back to school where she belongs. Adoption may be difficult but it should be easier than abortion.
Sarah, UK

Of course they are right. It is a small price to pay for a human life. Anybody who does not agree in my opinion is just plain sick.
Dave Simpson, Scotland / USA

The Church has always conflicted with common sense and logic and scientific thought, putting forward ridiculous belief and fanatical ideas that have hampered our society for the last two thousand years. This is just a latest example.
Haroon Khan, Germany

I don't understand most people on this forum. The Church doesn't want the girl to commit the BIGGEST sin a Christian could commit - murder.
Andrej, Russia

The Catholic Church is helping to fulfil the wishes and desire of a family decision to keep a human life. If some people say that is encouraging 12-year-olds to become pregnant, then the other side of the coin must be, that if a 12-year-old becomes pregnant then the state will approve and pay medical expenses for abortion after abortion after abortion. The choice was made, so we should support that decision.
Peter Cross, Wales

Of course the Catholic Church should give the 12-year-old money. They must be so proud she didn't use contraceptives.
Neil King, England

What are the parents of this girl thinking about? What kind of upbringing will the baby have. If the father feels he has to approach the church for assistance at this early stage, what's he going to do in the future? If what we've been told by the media about the girls mental age of 6 is true, then the church should also pay for psychological treatment for the father of the girl.
He's obviously lost touch with reality and should get his head out of his religious cloud. Common sense should prevail in circumstances such as these and not religion or beliefs. Have they taken medical advice?
Allan MacLean, Scotland

I'm a cynic, a pro-choice advocate and am involved in social work in my spare time. The first thing that crossed my mind as a cynic is: what are the intentions of the parents whom I understand are unemployed? To support the mother and child or to sell the story later to the tabloid press?
My second question is: if there is such a demand for babies for adoption, why are there so many orphanages? Or what's even more frightening, would women willingly make profit from their 'God-endowed' capacity to make babies? I have encountered women who have done so and it saddens me. Why is there also so little information available on lives gone wrong because of interference from people with absolutely little concern for the individual but only broad issues and immutable solutions?
Sudandara S. Nathan (Ms), Malaysia

The hypocrisy of so-called "pro-choicers" never fails to amaze me. From the viewpoint of their own twisted logic should women not have the "right to choose" to accept a bribe.
Bernie Smyth, N. Ireland

I think it's a good thing for the church to help a young girl in need, unless of course they are using her for cheep publicity.
Simon Shepherd, UK

Ask the child when she/he grows up (assuming she/he is given a chance to be born) whether it was the right thing to do.
Asif Habib, USA

Each person has human rights. The girl has to look after and take care for herself, she has the right to make a decision, no one can effect her decision. everybody has freedom!!!!
Vanessa, Hong Kong

It's not that I'm pro or anti - abortion, but how can any person decide to have a child at 12 years old? A child should not bear a child and whether they stepped in or not, the Church is condoning by simple involvement.
Nina, UK

I know the church is right we don't have enough of such actions in the church. Everybody says here that the church is in favour of teenage pregnancies. That's not true. Supporting life is not encouraging pregnancies. Everybody tries to save this girl's future from the baby, by aborting it. There is no good life at the cost of another life. I like that decision of the church and I really think this help should be extended.
Andrew,

These people are monsters, how can a 12 year old girl raise a child? She is no more than kid herself, I think this is wrong and the church should be ashamed of itself. Oh by the way, God does not exist - please don't argue with that as it is my view and you church folks are the first to say you have a right to express your beliefs.
Stuart, Scotland

As someone from Scotland I know that Cardinal Winning will use any situation to his advantage to preach his pro-life stance. At 12 this girl is in no way emotionally or physically ready for a child. I have children of my own but am pro-choice.
P O'Brien, Scotland

Its strange how no one mentioned the boy, who got the girl pregnant. Abortion should be avoided at all costs, unless the girl's life is threatened. The couple should be married, and the families of the couple should help raise the baby in a proper manner.
A Muslim, England

At 12 years old she is still a baby herself. Are we forgetting that it is illegal for people under 16 to have sex? Any who get pregnant should be made to have an abortion, remembering that they have committed a crime. The age of consent is there for a reason....under 16's cannot cope with the emotions and consequences of sex. For the church to condone this is appalling.
Anna, England

The Church has no right to step in at all. What if the woman isn't a Christian, why should they listen to what the Church says? Only if a person actually believes in the aspects of religion about 'thou shalt not kill', the church obviously has something to do with it. Otherwise they should keep their noses out. Anyhow, it's the individuals decision and to hell with anyone else who tries to but into that decision.
Lindsey, England

The Catholic Church in Scotland has shown a regard for human life that is unprecedented among the church as a whole. This issue has proved only that Christians have a responsibility to others which cannot be forsaken. If this will prevent the meaningless waste of life through abortion - then it must be good.
Stewart Harper, UK

This 12-year-old mother had already decided to keep her baby before her parents approached Cardinal Winning's Trust for help. In view of this the Catholic Church is defiantly right to step in and help this girl realise her "choice". Surely any pro-choicer would welcome an initiative enabling women to have a REAL choice - or are they in fact not pro-choice, but pro-abortion?
Ruth Ashfield, England

Life is a gift and a miracle is to be valued above almost all else and a human parent has one of the most important responsibilities on earth - to provide their baby with all the emotional and physical support that is the baby's by right.
But the strong can help the weak only if they themselves are healthy and well. How is a 12-year-old girl to provide her baby with guidance and support when she herself is no more than a child? My own beliefs belong to no religion, but I think that whatever or whoever or if-ever the God, this young girl should be granted her childhood intact, free of the responsibilities of motherhood, and I believe that whatever, whoever and if-ever the God, it would be understood how hard a decision this was to take.
Sam, UK

I just don't understand what the argument is about. The Church has made it possible for the mother, father, and (legally responsible) grandparents to make a REAL choice. If a lack of funds forces their choice to go for an abortion, then surely the Church is right to step in and make sure she has both options available to her.
The people whose decision it is to make, have now made it, now leave them alone! This discussion is not about the supposed hypocrisy of the Church, but it pure stone-throwing by the moral-less atheists in the world. Mind Your Own Business!
R White, UK

Well I think it may be dangerous for the life and health of the 12-year-old girl to have a baby in her womb at this young age. The church should not do something that endangers the girl's life
Vishal Sant, India

This is yet another example of an out of touch institution pushing a policy that flies in the face of common sense. The 12-year-old girl met the father of her baby in a special needs school. The church and 'pro-life' fanatics need to keep out of the situation while the social services involved find out how this situation could be allowed to arise.
Alex S, UK

I can understand a group who has a strong belief acting to enforce it but I can't condone it. In our society 12 years old is an unacceptable age to expect someone to become a mother and to bribe someone to ruin their lives forever in this way is nothing other than corrupt. This life is hard enough for anyone without having a mother who is only 12 years older than you, or worse, having no mother at all growing up as one of the tens of thousands of children being brought up in care in this country alone.
Blind faith is exactly that. We must all think of the consequences of our actions including the kids who got pregnant in the first place and the Catholic church who are willing to take this course of action with no thought for the endless consequences it will have. Where will it end? Will we see a queue of 12-year-olds outside church selling their unborn babies as a way to make money?
Helen Fox, UK

This Talking Point may have been more thought-provoking had some of the contributors taken the trouble to check the facts. The Catholic Church did NOT step in: the family concerned requested assistance. The Catholic Church is NOT paying the girl to keep her baby: it is, as I understand it, offering non-monetary help in preparing for the baby's arrival.
I do not attend any Church and rarely sympathise with any organised religion, but the bigotry displayed here by atheists and pro-abortionists rivals that of any Church.
Kirsty Hearn, UK

I'm not a Catholic, nor even a Christian, but it seems plain to me that the Catholic Church in Scotland has simply responded, in a practical manner, to a direct plea for help from the young girl's parents.
I disagree with the Church's stance on contraception, but unless someone is suggesting that contraception should be made freely available to 12 year olds, it's entirely irrelevant in this case. The sense I get quite strongly from reading some of these contributions is that "pro-choice" in reality means "no choice" unless it involves abortion.
Henry Case, UK

I for one am a devout atheist, and speaking from this point of view I believe it is good to see the church actually standing up to its morals rather than brush them under the carpet. However, I can't help but think that the church has taken an irreversible step, and once you've helped one.....
Matt Evans, USA but English

I have read through the responses and I see a good deal about the position of the church, pro-lifers, abortion groups, and sundry assorted others with strongly held views but, unless I have missed it, no one seems to be thinking of the effect of all this on the poor child involved. The issue even featured in a small provincial newspaper here in New Zealand. I don't think that the patently prurient interest of the media serves any useful purpose. Clearly it's the church's meddling that makes the matter newsworthy. Leave the child and her family alone.
Bill Wright, New Zealand

I'm disgusted by the Church's bribing the girl (or rather her parents) to forgo abortion. 12 year olds are not old enough to go through childbirth safely -- from the girl's own health point of view, abortion is a much smaller operation. It is not in the interests of seventh-grade girls to give birth and be saddled with babies. Once again, the church sacrifices real females for its ridiculous ideology. It's the same story with the Pope protesting UN programs that give emergency contraception to victims of wartime rape.
Katha Pollitt, USA

"Paying to keep her baby" means that the Church does not want her to KILL the BABY. The Church also does not want her to suffer the rest of her life knowing that she killed what everyone knows is her BABY. That this is so strange to some Brits is remarkable. Perhaps those some need to revisit Germany in the 30's. They didn't like the Church there and then either - for a similar reason.
K.A. Kowalski, USA

No, The church has no right to step-in. On the other hand, since the girl is a minor (below 18) I think it is up to her parents to take care of the situation. Since it was the parents who called the Church first, and not vice-versa, it seems like a sound decision.
But, it would be wrong if the Church decides to step-in and take over the situation, without any request from the affected party.
Ellorukkum N, USA

Abortion is awful - but even worse are the hypocrites in the Catholic Church - if they allowed their followers (who often live in the poorest countries in the world) the CHOICE of contraception there would not be so many starving poverty stricken children in the world (or as many cases of AIDS)
Tim, UK (but in USA)

Why blame the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church is only standing up against abortion. The root cause lies with us, who over the generations have begun to lose respect for the intimate bond between man and woman that is to be shared only after marriage.
Reginald Vaz, Pakistan

If this move cuts down on our taxes, and eventually bankrupts the roman catholic church, I'll finally say that they've done something worthwhile for the world. So yes, I feel that it was right for these clowns to step in.
Tony Knight, England

I'll put myself in the child's shoes and say "Go Church Go!"
Alex Hornsby, USA

Background ¦ Your reaction

Is the church right to step in?

Final vote:

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