NB: THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A TRANSCRIPTION UNIT RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT: BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MIS- HEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY, IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS ACCURACY. ........................................................................ PANORAMA UNDER THE SKIN RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC-1 DATE: 25:11:00 ........................................................................ JANE CORBIN: Meet the leader of the far right British National Party, Nick Griffin. He's put the party in the headlines with a brand new image - moderate, community-based. This year the BNP has capitalised on the race riots and the events of September 11th and polled some of its best ever election results. The party wants your vote. It claims to have abandoned its racist, violent and anti-Semitic past. But according to a secret audio tape Panorama has obtained, that's a lie. [Voice of Griffin speaking at meeting] It's often been said that I smoke more than an Auschwitz chimney. [Laughter from audience] Testimony of BNP organizer ACTOR: There were racist jokes, and when the songs started the response was the stiff right arm fascist salute widespread amongst the audience. There was no suggestion from Nick Griffin or the stewards that this was unwelcome. CORBIN: Those are the words of a top BNP insider revealing to Panorama the true face of the party, and we've discovered people with criminal records from top to bottom of this self-styled party of law and order. Here's Tony Lecomber. He is a member of your advisory council. He's got five convictions. I mean here's Mick Treacey, he has five previous convictions. Here's your Darlington organiser, Paul Thompson, a conviction for criminal damage and football violence. For five months Panorama has been investigating what Nick Griffin and the BNP really stand for. This August, following its increased vote at the general election, the BNP celebrated with a Red, White and Blue Rally on a windswept Welsh hillside. It was a gathering of the party faithful, a gathering to proclaim their arrival into the political mainstream. NICK GRIFFIN: We're here this weekend to have a good time, to recharge our batteries, to let the kids meet and meet other kids and so on and enjoy themselves. It's also political, to show people that we're not a party of confrontation, violence, problems, trouble and hatred. We are a party motivated by one word above all else - love. Applause JANE CORBIN Love of everything British and white was indeed all around us, but there was no visible evidence of Nazi regalia or the white supremacist literature which has tarnished the party's image in the past. The leadership had ordered such items shouldn't be put on display. The BNP's new look seems a far cry from the old boots and bully boy image, but how fundamental are the changes that have taken place within the party? We uncovered increasing evidence of a secret, darker side to the BNP in contrast to the public face that they're trying t present to the British electorate. We've put our evidence on a special Panorama website. Last year on St Georges Day Nick Griffin spoke at a private meeting of white nationalists in Texas. We've obtained a video of the speech. Beside Mr Griffin sat David Duke. Mr Duke is a former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, an organisation with a violent history of lynchings and murders of blacks. Nick Griffin confided in his right wing audience that he and his party had a new strategy to sell their ideas to the British people. American Friends of the BNP video 22 April 2000 GRIFFIN [addressing meeting] There's a difference between selling out your ideas and selling your ideas, and the British National Party isn't about selling out its ideas, which are your ideas too, but we are determined now to sell them, and that means basically to use the saleable words, as I say, freedom, security, identity, democracy. Nobody can criticise them. Nobody can come at you and attack you on those ideas. They are saleable. CORBIN: Back in this country, in Wales, on the farm where he lives, Nick Griffin sends out very different signals. You made it very clear to those American extremists that you were trying to make the BNP's message more saleable. You hadn't given up on your principles, you were just concerned to present it in a different way. NICK GRIFFIN Chairman, BNP We haven't given up on our principle that mono racial countries.. mono ethnic countries are more stable, it's far easier to preserve human rights and freedom within those whereas multiracial societies always end up going down the road of tyranny. CORBIN: During our investigation we spoke to a senior figure in the BNP, a man with a detailed knowledge of Nick Griffin and his politics. This man has been working as an informant for an anti-Nazi organisation and for his own safety can't be identified. His words, recorded by Panorama, are spoken by an actor in a location with which he has no connection. This BNP man provides crucial evidence into the real nature of Mr Griffin and his party today. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: If you were to take Griffin at face value, you'd think there'd be a whole series of ideological arguments within the party because so many of the senior activists are clearly Nazis, and Griffin, at face value, is not. But there doesn't seem to be any of that. No matter how you wish to express it, clearly race and racism is at the centre of their politics. CORBIN: So who is this man trying to sell a new brand of white nationalism? Nick Griffin is a Cambridge graduate. He's been involved in far right politics for the past 25 years, most of it in the National Front. A firm believer in forcible repatriation, Nick Griffin also believed there was a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, and that Hitler's holocaust against the Jews was a lie, it didn't happen. The National Front had supporters in unexpected quarters. Nick Griffin even visited Tripoli in 1988 at Colonel Gaddafi's expense to seek funding from the Libyan regime. In 1995 Mr Griffin joined the British National party. Three years later, in 1998 he was given a two year suspended sentence for distributing race hate material. The following year he became leader of the BNP and set about apparently transforming the party. GRIFFIN: We're still the party which opposes the imposition of a multiracial society on this country. Where we have changed is that the British National Party, say three years ago, had what was.. had become a wholly unrealistic policy, of compulsory repatriation of all non-whites and their descendants. We've looked at that and feel that's neither possible nor fair nor achievable. CORBIN: So it's voluntary repatriation. GRIFFIN: Voluntary, absolutely. CORBIN: You've left behind the old policies of compulsory repatriation? GRIFFIN: Yes, completely. CORBIN: But the evidence from our senior source within the party presents a very different view. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: Griffin and his right-hand men are pushing relationships with journalists, you might say putting a spin on things I suppose. It's like putting old wine in new bottles. You take the old traditional racist views and you put them in a way that's not quite so nasty. Then if you don't put people off instantly, like on the doorstep, you can then draw them in, into your racist views. That's what Griffin is all about, just a series of media stunts. CORBIN: The political highlight of the Red, White and Blue Rally in August was Nick Griffin's keynote speech. His message to the party rank and file, BNP activity in the community was exposing the failure of the other main parties to protect British white citizens. The BNP, he claimed, was attracting new members in untapped, middle class areas. GRIFFIN: [addressing meeting] What about Stafford? Simon Darby's up there recently organising a new group of people. It's an English county town. Superficially it's very wealthy. What Simon's done there is our people, some are ex-soldiers who served this country, living in derelict stables, living in derelict stables because they're homeless. These are people who, a couple of months ago, were living in hostels for people who are homeless preparatory to going on to getting a flat, and they've been thrown out of their hostels. Why? To make way for....? AUDIENCE: Asylum seekers. GRIFFIN: Asylum seekers, yes. CORBIN: We decided to investigate Mr Griffin's dramatic account of people being driven out of hostels by asylum seekers. We went to Stafford where a local BNP activist introduced us to the homeless men. All of them admitted to drug and alcohol abuse. MAN: Basically we're all in the same situation, yeah? But.. but.. but - yeah? Right? We're getting Kosovos, we're getting this, we're getting that and the other yeah? Right? But, what happens to us? You know what I mean? What happens to us? CRAIG WHITLOCK BNP activist All the lads here know I'm a member of the British National Party, they know my political views, but I don't try to indoctrinate them or anything, I do it as an individual. We have to say that these guys are on the street, we've got no specialist facility but Stafford Borough Council has just housed 147 asylum seekers. If Stafford Borough Council can find the resources to house these people from abroad who have contributed nothing to British society, why can't it take a look at our most vulnerable citizens and do something about their plight? GRIFFIN: [addressing meeting] Stafford is only a miniature of what's going on in the country as a whole, where they're throwing people out of hostels there to make room for asylum seekers, that's just a miniature of this entire country. CORBIN: That's not what Stafford Council told us when we asked them about Mr Griffin's claim. We went down to Stafford and we met a BNP member who was working with some of the homeless. He told us that there were 147 asylum seekers being housed by the local council. Is that the case as far as you know? GRIFFIN: I don't know. CORBIN: Well that's what he told us. He told us very clearly there were 147 asylum seekers being housed by the local council. But the local council said there was actually only one family being housed. I mean these are just lies. GRIFFIN: I think you probably found.. I don't know the circumstances but I think you'll find.. CORBIN: Well the circumstances are he said 147 and there was just 1. GRIFFIN: I think you'll find for instance that a local authority will classify people as 'asylum seekers' until they've been accepted for residence whereupon oh, all of a sudden they're not asylum seekers anymore, as far as the council's concerned. As far as ordinary people - they are. CORBIN: Well the council was quite specific, only one family had sought asylum. So where is the 147? GRIFFIN: I don't know where the figure came from. CORBIN: There's other evidence of the BNP playing fast and loose with the facts about asylum seekers. Last October the Wembley Observer reported Brent Council's plan to reduce its 16000 long-term waiting list for houses by moving some homeless families on a voluntary basis to Newcastle. Then a BNP leaflet distributed throughout the Denton area of Newcastle claimed that Denton was about to receive 16,000 refugees from London. There's only 7000 houses in Denton. GRIFFIN: Yes indeed, but the reason... CORBIN: So how can you ship 16,000 refugees there? GRIFFIN: In fact you can't, but the reason that leaflet was produced and the reason that figure was put there was that there was a local newspaper in West London which said the government.. the local council is aiming to ship 16,000 refugees out to the north east of England and they stressed... CORBIN: But to take that fact... to take it and convert it into a leaflet that's going into one specific neighbourhood talking about 16,000 families... GRIFFIN: That's what the local paper said. CORBIN: That is lies and it's frightening. GRIFFIN: It was a mistake. CORBIN: Earlier this year, as part of the party's new drive into community politics, the BNP launched an organisation called FAIR - Families Against Immigrant Racism. Dave Hill is the London coordinator. DAVE HILL London co-ordinator, FAIR There is no mystery, there is no controversy to FAIR. It's just a white rights organisation. We're targeting race hate that is not targeted by other victim support groups. Yes, to many people it would sound racist. It depends on the definition of the word 'racist'. If we're going to pre say 1960s definition of the word racism, to love one's own race more than others, then I am a racist. All we're saying is white people encounter the same problems, it's not recognised. An organised body needs to be in place to recognise the needs of the white community, and we hope that in the years to come FAIR will fill that role. CORBIN: Curiously there's no mention of who is behind FAIR in the leaflet. HILL: When people contact us, the first thing I would say to someone over the phone is you do realise FAIR is a circle of the British National Party. The majority of people know. Some people don't. CORBIN: But on this there's no mention of the BNP. HILL: No. CORBIN: Why? HILL: We didn't initially put it on our leaflets because we basically wanted the press to find out so we could get some publicity out of it, and it worked. CORBIN: According to the leaflet FAIR offers a legal and counselling service for whites who claim to be victims of racial harassment. It was launched in the East End of London with a mass drop of 12,000 leaflets. The BNP were pleased with the response. HILL: We've received over a 100 phone calls from the public. CORBIN: A hundred phone calls? HILL: Around a 100 phone calls. That's since the middle of March to the present day. Some people phone up they're in tears. They're frightened to go outside their doors. We would advise them how to help themselves in situations like this. CORBIN: And those people that have called you, can you tell us who they are? HILL: No. CORBIN: Mr Hill told us that FAIR takes up such cases with the local council. We decided to make some inquiries of our own. We contacted Tower Hamlets Council to see if their Housing Department or Social Services knew of FAIR or had dealt with cases where FAIR was acting on behalf of local white residents. The answer, to both questions, was no. NICK GRIFFIN Chairman, BNP The Council in Tower Hamlets is a fanatically anti-white, left wing council. So for one thing they're not going to do us any favours in any case. CORBIN: But I think if they're asked if they've actually had anybody come to them as a result of FAIR, they would tell us. They would not lie and say nobody had come to them. GRIFFIN: Left wing Labour and Liberal councils lie through their teeth all the time. CORBIN: So you think the council is lying? GRIFFIN: Oh absolutely. We've tried to find people that we have helped who are prepared to be shown on television and talked about and their cases talked about. White people in those areas feel themselves under a reign of terror quite literally. CORBIN: But it's very convenient to say to journalists we can't provide you with any proof because people are too afraid. We ask for the proof, we never see it. GRIFFIN: Yes, but we can't help that. CORBIN: Mr Griffin's reluctance might also have something to do with Mr Hill being banned from the council's housing department for abusive and threatening behaviour towards two staff members. In the absence of any proof of his services to the community, Panorama decided to put Mr Hill's claims to the test. We asked a local pensioner to call him with a query about reporting verbal harassment from local kids. Reconstruction DAVE HILL: Hello? HARRY: Hello, is that Dave? DAVE: Speaking. HARRY: This is Harry. I phoned you last night mate. DAVE: Oh that's right, yeah. CORBIN: An actor plays the part of the pensioner but this is a recording of the pensioner's actual conversation with Mr Hill whose advice was unorthodox to say the least. DAVE: Have you actually said it's racial? HARRY: I.. I don't know whether that one's going to work you see. DAVE: Well in fact it does work now because the law's changed last February and a racial crime now, or a racial offence of any sort, it has to be regarded as racist by the police if anybody connected to that crime, be it you, or someone who witnessed it, regards it's racial. HARRY: Now hang about, these kids are talking a language I've never heard of, so I don't know what they're saying. DAVE: Well, you've got to use a bit of creative licence there for your own benefit. HARRY: Okay. DAVE: When you say that to the police, let's just say these people have said "Why are you living here you white B or you white C?" You know.. right? Now if you tell the police that this is racial, they have to put it down as racial and then it has to go to the top of their list. It becomes priority. CORBIN: So, BNP advice is to lie to the police. DAVE: Also, I would advise you to do this. This is very important. It's to go to your doctor and tell your doctor that you're suffering extreme stress. What he'll do, he'll put you on anti-depressants. You don't have to take 'em. Just wash 'em down the toilet. CORBIN: And BNP advice is to exaggerate to a doctor. DAVE: You really need to say to these people "I am being racially abused" you have to tell it to the police, the council, and ask for a councillor to speak to you. One bit of advice I'll give you is don't tell him you've spoken to us. HARRY: Right. DAVE: I mean you do know who you are, don't you. HARRY: Yeah. DAVE: Yeah. CORBIN: And whatever you do, don't mention the BNP. Lies, exaggeration, evasion, the reality behind the party's community politics. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: You see what Griffin is doing, he's putting out an image, particularly to the media, that doesn't have a great deal of substance to it. As far as FAIR is concerned, instead of saying 'We hate Pakis, if they're black send them back' you say 'Ah, the multiracial society isn't working, it's causing problems' And then you can home into that and exploit it to make it sound reasonable to ordinary people. CORBIN: And what could be more reasonable to ordinary people than a party with a history of racism offering the hand of friendship to Britain's ethnic communities. This man, Colin Smith, has been involved in far right politics since the late 1980s. Now he's part of a 3-man team leading a brand new organisation set up by Nick Griffin. The BNP's ethnic liaison committee. What is the idea behind the so-called ethnic liaison committee that the BNP have set up? COLIN SMITH Ethnic Liaison Committee That was set up just very recently, initially to accommodate support from growing numbers of ethnic supporters. CORBIN: Growing numbers of ethnic supporters. You mean there are actually blacks and Asians who support the BNP? SMITH: Yes, yes. It's not a recent thing. It's happened over the years but it's becoming more common now. CORBIN: So how long is it since you set up this ethnic liaison committee? SMITH: It's formally about 8 weeks ago. CORBIN: And in that 8 weeks, how many new ethnic.. members of the ethnic have you attracted onto your committee? SMITH: We don't know yet because inquiries are still coming in. We're still talking to these people. CORBIN: So you've actually had inquiries. SMITH: Yes. CORBIN: How many? SMITH: I couldn't say. I couldn't say. CORBIN: Dozens? Hundreds? SMITH: Dozens. Dozens. It's not many at this stage. CORBIN: It sounds a bit vague. SMITH: It is because it's very new. It is vague, it's very new. We're still building it up. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: The setting up of this committee has gone down very badly with some of the membership. There are those who have simply said "I joined the BNP because it's a white man's party and this is outrageous". But there are others that have stepped back and said "Ah, hang on, this is very smart. We're now getting publicity of a type that we've never had in the party before". CORBIN: Media interest was further encouraged when Mr Griffin appointed Lawrence Rustem to chair the new Ethnic Liaison Committee. Mr Rustem is half Turkish, he's unique within the BNP because the party's constitution quite clearly states that members have to be of British or European ethnic decent. We thought the Ethnic Liaison Committee might be introduced at the Red, White and Blue Rally. Oddly that never happened and Mr Rustem didn't show his face. RALLY SPEAKER: We're all standing up, we've all had a fight. Now it's time to build a brighter, whiter day. Applause CORBIN: There is some indication that your members aren't terribly happy about the fact that Mr Rustem is a member of the party. GRIFFIN: There's still a small proportion of the party which weren't happy about this and they didn't know before he was a member, even though he's been a member for ten years, and basically I think they're being daft about it and taking a point of principle to a totally illogical extreme. CORBIN: So you did have problems with people. GRIFFIN: We had a few problems from that from a tiny minority, yes. But that's not why he didn't turn up. He didn't turn up because he was working at the time. CORBIN: We asked the BNP if they could put us in touch with the elusive Mr Rustem. We were given his home number. A meeting was arranged. But then, only a few hours later, he phoned back to say that he wouldn't be available until next March. Mr Rustem isn't alone in not wanting to be filmed. At the rally in August we weren't allowed in the tent during the evening's cultural programme of folk plays and songs. We caught up with Nick Griffin the next day to ask him why his members were so camera shy and why we'd been banned from filming what had been billed as 'entertainment' the previous night. GRIFFIN: This event wasn't for the mass media, it was for our people, so our people's wishes come first, so we said right, that part of the event that's purely for you. But there was nothing there which was.. you know.. outrageous or evil or inciteful or anything like that. CORBIN: We have obtained a tape recording, clear evidence of what did go on that evening. Most people would find it offensive, but not, apparently, Mr Griffin and senior members of his party who were there. SPEAKER: This big nigger, right, he goes into a bar. He's got a big parrot on his shoulder. The barman says that's extraordinary, where did you get that? And the parrot turns to him and says, "I got him in Africa. There's millions of the black bastards." Laughter GRIFFIN: There was nothing there which was outrageous or evil or inciteful or anything like that. SPEAKER: Bloke walks into a pub with a crocodile, walks up to the bar and says "Do you serve niggers in here?" Guv'nor goes, "Course we do, we're not racist." He goes "I'll have a pint of lager and a nigger for the crocodile." Laughter GRIFFIN: There was nothing there which was outrageous or evil or inciteful or anything like that. SPEAKER: I'll speak about this filthy habit. This filthy habit of smoking I've got. I'm not proud of myself. It's often been said that I smoke more than an Auschwitz chimney you know. Laughter CORBIN: There's no evidence on the party's website of the racist jokes the leadership enjoys in private. Instead the image is one of a dynamic, fun party with a message of rights for whites. It's a message the BNP has pushed even harder in the aftermath of the terror attacks of September 11th. SMITH: The British National Party made the Times newspaper yesterday, the paper reporting that the British National Party has urged members to hand out new recruitment leaflets condemning Islam as a religion that spawns psychotic mass murderers. CORBIN: The BNP has even started its own youth branch like the mainstream political parties. BNP members use local radio to try and get their message across. BNP MEMBER: Are we still live on air? INT: It's still live on air. BNP MEMBER: Well you tell the people what multiracialism has done for this country? INT: Well I'll tell you, multiracialism... BNP MEMBER: Apart from a few footballers.. a few footballers and chicken tikka masala, it's done nothing positive for it. INT: I was born in this country. Am I British? I've got a black face. Am I British? BNP MEMBER: You're not ethnically British, no. INT: No? BNP MEMBER: Spike Milligan was born in India. Is he an Indian? INT: If he would like to classify himself as one, surely he can, can't he, the right to choose? BNP MEMBER: Well.. you know.. I mean can I choose to be a horse? Obviously not. CORBIN: BNP branch meetings offer refreshments in true grass roots political style, and guest speakers who promise to challenge the Labour Party in its heartlands, the cities of Britain. BNP SPEAKER: They're scared stiff that the British people are going to one day wake up and realise they've all been conned. They've all been conned. Tony Blair's doing that to us (two fingers) and we're doing that (thumbs up). The one thing you've got to do is support yourselves in your own area. That's the key. It's community politics, get involved, be proud and fly the flag. At the end of the day that's all that counts. Thank you very much. Applause CORBIN: But behind the seats and the mantle of respectability, we've discovered that the BNP contains throughout its ranks many individuals with criminal convictions. These range from Nick Griffin himself with his two year suspended sentence for race hate, to some of his top lieutenants and local BNP organisers. You have actually got some pretty colourful people still at the top of your organisation, I mean you know them well. I've just got a few photos here. Here's Tony Lecomber, he is a member of your advisory council. He's got a very grand title - Group Development Organiser. He's got five convictions for bombs and bomb preparations and for attacking a member of the Jewish community. I mean should this man be on your advisory council today? GRIFFIN: Well first of all there are several things he hasn't got. He hasn't got a conviction for a bomb. You said a bomb went off in his car. If a bomb went off in his car... CORBIN: He's got a conviction though. GRIFFIN: If a bomb had gone off in a car, what would be doing alive today? He was playing... as a silly juvenile he was playing, as many juvenile's do, with an overgrown firework which went bang, and the judge accepted he wasn't a terrorist so he gave him a conviction for unauthorised possession of this sort of thing and that was it. CORBIN: But as the evidence on our website makes clear, Tony Lecomber was no juvenile, he was 25 years old at the time. He didn't have a firework, he had a nail bomb. At his house the police discovered ten hand grenades, two petrol bombs, detonators and timing devices. He was sentenced to three years in prison for making explosives, and he was sentenced to a further three years for an attack on a Jewish teacher. I mean here's another gentleman, Warren Bennett, he's your chief steward, he's responsible for security. You talk about people getting in trouble 'a long time ago'. He was deported from France only three years ago in 1998 for football hooliganism. He has a previous conviction as well. I mean how can he be a member responsible for security in your organisation? GRIFFIN: He was following a football team. He did absolutely nothing wrong when he got deported. He was picked up because he had a record from 15 years ago and so they see him, so they throw him out. CORBIN: Warren Bennett was one of a group of so-called Scottish fans who, according to three European police forces, were bent on violence. They were tracked across the continent before being deported. Warren Bennett claimed he was innocent though he hid his face at the airport. I mean here's Mick Treacey, he stood in Oldham alongside you. He's your Oldham organiser. He's a Parliamentary candidate but he has five previous convictions. Is this man suitable to be a Parliamentary candidate? GRIFFIN: Mick Treacey, if he wasn't suitable as a Parliamentary candidate he wouldn't have got that tremendous vote in his home town. I've walked around the States in Oldham with Mick Treacey and on some of those rough estates where the Labour Party is now detested as being the party of the Muslims, Mick Treacey is regarded as a local hero. Mick Treacey is going to be a councillor. Yes, he's a rough diamond, we've got rough diamonds. CORBIN: Rough diamond! You've got people with loads of convictions at the very top of your party. But you see there's lots. Here's your Darlington organiser, Paul Thompson, a conviction for criminal damage and football violence. Here's a gentleman.... GRIFFIN: I could give you hundreds of people like this because we've got thousands of members. CORBIN: So it doesn't really matter to you that these top members of your organisation have convictions? GRIFFIN: If they were to go and do something like that now, they would be out immediately. CORBIN: Last month the BNP held an event it called its 'Annual College'. Organisers from all over the country met to discuss the party's strategy and tactics for next year's local elections. Amongst those who attended, seen here greeting Nick Griffin, was Neil Keilty, a well known football hooligan in the recent past, and David Hannam, branch organiser for Hull, a man convicted only last year for producing and distributing a racist and anti-Semitic leaflet. Also present a familiar face, Colin Smith from the Ethnic Liaison Committee, a man with multiple convictions including possession of an offensive weapon. Yet Mr Smith sits on the BNP's top body, the party's advisory council. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: You might think that Griffin would want to surround himself with more respectable people and get rid of the thugs and hooligans. Despite the press and hype, there just isn't the vast army of ordinary people wanting to join the party and get involved, they just ain't there. Despite all this talk about wanting to join mainstream politics, Griffin believes he still needs violence to take power, so he'll continue to need these people around him in the party. CORBIN: Saturday, April 28th, Oldham Athletic were playing at home to Stoke City. Rival football hooligans joined forces and marched through an Asian Community on their way to the stadium. The police struggled to contain the violence as the football hooligans made their way home. It marked the start of several weekends of rioting among gangs of white and Asian youths in several towns across the north of England. Some of those involved were members and supporters of an extreme right wing organisation known as Combat 18. Throughout the 90s Combat 18 was associated with acts of terrorism and violence from letter bomb campaigns to arson attacks. WELLS: It takes its name from the first and eighth letters of the alphabet - the initials of Adolf Hitler. CORBIN: We've spoken to a man who for six years has been one of the leading members of C18, a man with convictions for violence and public disorder, one received just a few weeks ago. But Darren Wells is trying to put his violent and racist past behind him, which is why he's agreed to do this interview. DARREN WELLS Former Combat 18 organiser I'm not coming on saying I'm whiter than white because I'm not, because I did some bad things, and I still believe some of the things that I used to believe in. But I now realise that you can't go around hurting innocent people just because they're different to you. CORBIN: For two years Darren Wells has been working covertly with an antifascist organisation Searchlight. In that capacity he was present in Oldham on the day that gangs of white youths were organising themselves for a confrontation with the local Asian residents in the area. WELLS: We met in a pub away from the town centre that the police had no idea about. Just the top C18 hooligans, some of the real heavy duty football hooligans from different northern firms like Manchester United, some lads from Stoke, Stockport, all these teams made a good show, and some of the real troublemakers from Oldham itself were all there. CORBIN: Nick Griffin was campaigning as the BNP Parliamentary candidate in Oldham that same day. WELLS: When we were in that pub drinking with some BNP supporters, they mentioned that Griffin was in town and that he wanted to come down and have a drink with us. And when C18 were asked if they had a problem they said no, bring him down. He's welcome to come down for a drink. GRIFFIN: We were campaigning in the constituency. We had a phone call from someone local saying there was a lot of white youngsters in this area who were being harassed by the police which is very common in all multiracial areas. Of course the liberal media aren't interested when it's young whites. Nobody gives a damn because they're only whites. They're working class white trash to you people, so nobody goes along and helps. We went down there to see what was going on because if Nick Griffin - who is moderately articulate and wears a suit and tie - turns up and has a word with the police, there's at least some chance that they will back off a little bit and leave the kids alone. WELLS: And at no time did he make any effort at all to try and stop people drinking with C18 people, he didn't make any effort at all to stop people going after a violent confrontation with Asian gangs. Griffin's words that stick with me were "We're all on the same side". CORBIN: Why did you make no attempt to calm the situation? GRIFFIN: We did. CORBIN: People who were there, the Combat 18 people and the hangers on, say that they took from the conversation you had with them the message that you were tacitly encouraging them. "We're on the same side" was the message basically. GRIFFIN: Most definitely not. CORBIN: That evening, after several weekends of increasing racial tension and sporadic violence, the Glodick Estate in Oldham went up in flames. Pitched battles between the police and hundreds of Asian youths continued throughout the night. The following weekend many of the white youths, including Combat 18 members and supporters, who'd been present in the pub the previous Saturday returned. They were intent on provoking violence by charging through an Asian residential area. Their plans were thwarted because they were passed on to the police through Darren Wells and Searchlight, and there's more. Our investigation has discovered that this summer, Combat 18 members and supporters have been in regular attendance at BNP meetings and events. Kevin Gough seen here being arrested for football hooliganism attended the BNP's annual Red, White and Blue event in August. Another C18 member, Martin Fielding, has been leafleting with the BNP and attended branch meetings as recently as September. John Benny Hill, a long term C18 member, attended BNP meetings in June and September. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: Some people who were among the most violent and blatant supporters of terrorism in Combat 18, now calling themselves 'Blood and Honour' and various other names, are very, very close to Nick Griffin and the British National Party. This is not the sort of company you'd expect Griffin to have around when he's trying to make himself and the party more respectable. CORBIN: So once again the so-called new style BNP is just a front run by old style extremists, many o f them with violent and antisocial backgrounds. The message that Nick Griffin is pushing about immigration and race is based on moderation, electoral credibility. But from the evidence that we've gathered, it's clear it's just a means to an end. The real objective has never changed. American Friends of the BNP video 22 April 2000 GRIFFIN: Perhaps one day, once by being rather more subtle we got ourselves in a position where we control the British Broadcasting media and then we tell 'em really how serious the immigration problem was, and we tell them the truth about a lot of the crime that's been going on, if we tell 'em really what multiracialism has meant and means for the future, then perhaps one day the British people might change their mind and say yes every last one must go. Perhaps they will one day. But if you hold that out as your sole aim to start with, you're going to get absolutely nowhere. So instead of talking about racial purity, you talk about identity, and about the needs and the rights and the duty to preserve and enhance the identity of our own people. My primary identity quite simply is there (points to veins in wrist). That's the thing that counts. Applause CORBIN: In that speech you say that perhaps one day the British people might change their minds and say yes, every last one must go. That's what you're after isn't it at the end of the day. GRIFFIN: Perhaps one day they would, but as a matter of fact I don't think they ever will actually. People... CORBIN: You see you make it clear in this speech that that's what you're aiming for. GRIFFIN: I would like to see at the end of the day that there are none here at all. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: It's looks as though the party has made a fundamental change from forcible to voluntary repatriation because that seems more reasonable. But nobody in the party seriously believes that if they came to power there would be ethnic minority people living happily in this country. People say parties lie to get into power, why shouldn't we? Griffin says that compulsory repatriation might even put off racist voters because of the image of forcing people onto boats at gunpoint, but that's what he and the party will be prepared to do if push came to shove. CORBIN: But abandoning forcible repatriation is not the only move the BNP believes is necessary to make the party electable. It must also convince the public that it has shed its past associations with Nazism and anti-Semitism. Belsen Concentration Camp 1945 [film footage] Can anyone any longer doubt the truth of German atrocities, and yet shall we remember these things in ten, fifteen, twenty years time? It would be wise if all of us retain a lasting memory of the horror of this place. CORBIN: In 1998 Nick Griffin made the following statement. GRIFFIN: "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the Earth was flat. I have reached the conclusion that the extermination tale is a mixture of allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie and latter witch-hysteria." CORBIN: What is your position on the holocaust? Do you believe that six million Jews were killed by the Nazis. GRIFFIN: I have no doubt that very large numbers were killed. No one specifically says six million. It's described as a symbolic figure. But fundamentally I regard it as quite irrelevant and wrong that at a time when the British people are going to be a minority in our own homeland in 60 years, in other words we're going to be genocided, because that's what it is, at that time along come the liberal media with this big club marked holocaust and bash me over the head with it. CORBIN: But you're not prepared to say how many you believe did die. GRIFFIN: Because I don't know. CORBIN: You see I think it's a yardstick for a lot of people when they're judging whether a party is racist or not, or indeed has a problem over the holocaust, it is a yardstick that people use. What do you believe? GRIFFIN: I'm saying it's quite irrelevant. I don't know. I don't know. Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: Let me make this absolutely clear, Griffin never for one moment has retracted or wavered in any way on his clearly expressed belief over the years that the holocaust never happened. CORBIN: Our investigation has revealed the hidden purpose of the BNP with its community politics which actually exploit the divisions in our society, a party which defends white rights by spreading lies and propaganda, and a party which has at its core violent supporters with criminal convictions. This is the real face of the BNP, a political party abusing the rights and freedoms at the heart of our democracy, an organisation which revealed its true nature in private at its rally in August. RALLY SPEAKER: I recently found out my granddad died at Auschwitz. Apparently he got drunk and fell out of the machine gun tower. Laughter Testimony of BNP organiser ACTOR: And when the cameras weren't there, the mask came off as well. There were racist jokes, and when the songs started the response was the stiff, right arm fascist salute widespread amongst the audience. There was no suggestion from Nick Griffin or the stewards that this was unwelcome. Then, late in the evening in the beer tent, they were playing SS marching songs on a cassette. Nick Griffin was there, as were members of the leadership group. This was all seen as perfectly normal. _________ www.bbc.co.uk / panorama CREDITS Reporter Jane Corbin VT Editors Boyd Nagle Marc Eskenazi Dubbing Mixer Stewart Harper Graphic Design Kaye Huddy Julie Tritton Film Camera Joe Taylor Steve Morris Production Team Ben Peachey Helen Day Gareth Owen Karen Sadler Kath Lee-Posner Film Research Kate Redman Eamonn Walsh Production Manager Martha Estcourt Unit Manager Maria Ellis Film Editor Joe Zak Assistant Producer Esella Hawkey Producer Murdoch Rodgers Deputy Editors Andrew Bell Editor Mike Robinson 3 ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Transcribed by 1-Stop Express Services, London W2 1JG Tel: 020 7724 7953 E-mail 1-stop@msn.com