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2005年03月14日 格林尼治標準時間00:10北京時間 08:10發表
論壇:如何看董建華辭職?

雁膘貌
香港特別行政區首長董建華以健康的原因辭職。

他否認被北京的中央領導解職。北京在英國1997年把香港主權移交給中國時挑選他擔當此重任。

董建華擔任特首的8年期間,香港問題不斷,先是亞洲金融風暴,接著又出現了薩斯疫情。

他還受到批評,說他支持中央政府試圖限制香港民主改革的努力。

歡迎參加BBC中文網關于董建華辭職的討論。你認為北京在董建華的辭職中扮演了何種角色?香港的前途會有何種變化?


網友評論:

定點清除才是解決辦法...
hitman.co, china/uk

董建華是共產黨在香港統治的一條狗, 對它在香港的利用價值已盡。關於對付香港自由民主的潮流, 大陸還會有新把戲, 還會找到替代之, 獨裁者對香港的影響不會輕易放棄。
nnn, 瑞士

一句話:這世界老實人最可愛也最可欺!北京的大老正是看準老董老實,八年前拉扯上他,授命讓他在香港唱一齣《明知山有虎,偏向虎山行》﹔虧我們老董一心"愛國"愛昏了頭,竟然放下有錢賺的船老板不做,情願出賣已知比生命和愛情更可寶貴的"自由"。這八年不長不短,可不知我們可愛的老董究竟嚐夠了人前歡笑背人哭的日子沒有?好了,現在終於解脫了,卻解脫得真沒面子,不但要北上報到,按指定時間"辭職"(幸而比"開除"和"撤職"好一點),還得遵命在堂皇的人民大會堂(罰)坐冷板凳陪笑不曉得要陪多久……老董呀老董,你還有多少"自由"可以出賣?真想不通你身材結實為什麼膽子這麼小!其實早就有好多好多次以為你會忍不住把桌子一推大叫一聲"老子不乾了",想不到你忍辱負重的耐力還真比老牛厲害數十百倍!唉,人生短短數十年,為什麼你總是想不通?對酒當歌,人生幾何?為自由,你醒醒你醒醒吧!
mokky, singapore

同意董先生以健康理由辭職.他已是古稀的老人了. 在位8年,其施政綱領也已用完,讓位給年輕些的人了,政策也會有新意,對香港經濟會有更大作用.董辭職的時機很好.目前香港已經見到曙光,董先生能夠功成身退,可謂激流勇退。而香港的民主在換屆選舉中也可顯現出來。事實上,中央不希望香港的民主倒退,當然希望香港的經濟對內地有更大作為。而事實,這幾年,比起香港對內地的援助來說,內陸對香港援助更大。所以,中央對香港的經濟有些不滿。香港,加油!
william, Canada

董建華完成了歷史使命,不過香港今天的繁榮、民主和法治,得益於英國殖民統治的傳統,包括商業精神和文明。 董建華的功績自有香港人民評價,不過《基本法》第二十三條,的確是其主政的敗筆,他完全可以和北京當局據理力爭,第二十三條對中共北京當局來說,甚無意義,反而暴露出其專制獨裁的野心,對台灣統戰是極大的負面影響。幾十萬香港同胞的大遊行就宣告了董建華最後主政歲月的失敗!
共產奴隸,

一個正港的香港人會回答說:政治唔關我事,我最繼續開到工同靠到食.

香港本來就是一個這樣的靠食基地,或曰全球最大的生產財富的工廠.我們的家只是不同豪華級別的宿舍.

不要說不能成為國家,連城市也達不上標.

所以搞政治永遠也不會成什麼氣候,是以在香港最有才華的人,必然會敬謝不敏的.

無奈的是:一,歷史上出現了這個偉人鄧,其實是香港的魁星,要搞什麼世紀新構作:一國兩制,港人治港.二,香港土壤養育出一些不俏,半吊子的政客,他們無所能為,識見短淺,也要學人來搞搞這個政治......

噢!

我不會說這就是香港悲劇的開□,雖則我性格悲觀,但香港還不致那樣悲觀,所以我還不能如此說,我只能說香港的好日子漸漸遠離,以後盡是苦悶的日子.

苦悶的香港!


地球生物, 香港

中央該合併港澳特區,由何先生當首任特首,董先生吃虧在太聽話了,代人受過,中央該換在港特派員,他們太無能了。
另類見解, china,yunnan

在他心中從來只有一國,沒有兩制。一國兩制就是由他親手斷送!

誰人會問無錢開飯的老人家:"點解唔食月餅?"董建華就是這個人!一個不知窮人困苦的特首!

一面話關心老人問題,一面大刀減綜援的特首!

一面話教育好重要,一面大力減去大學撥款的特首!


人在做,天在看, 香港

共產黨的錢不好用吧,建華!還是當正經的商人簡單吧,再乾下去,再留個千古罵名就不劃算了!!!!
real businessman, hong kong

北京啊北京,何苦乾吃力不討好的事情了。把我們無產階級民工的血汗錢餵這些'高等華人'搞民主自由?什麼挺港?香港回歸中國,他們就是中國人,憑什麼香港人可以享受不一樣的制度?哪個國家公開地把公民分為三六九等?
好人,大陸,

老董其實是做得很不錯,但可惜時運是很不好! 結果便成為了無知港人的口中的罪人。 現在香港經濟已復蘇,而他體質也不如從前,這時候引退也算是時機恰當!
alex, canada

董伯伯!這8年來,你被上面的人扯著,下面的人對你吐口水,還是休息吧!
無名氏, 歐洲

任何人當香港特首,都要鏟除氓子敗類,香港才有安定繁榮。

美式民主碎蘇俄
港毒氓子成亂禍
若有鐵腕除敗類
香港居民樂趣多

意特工被美軍擊斃,證明花旗走狗必不好死。 香港的氓子敗類就是花旗魔爪的走狗,必不好死是肯定的了。
世外生物, 外層空間

共產黨的政策不錯,就是共產黨的幹部大部分是一群貪官混蛋,投訴無門哦,只能忍受啦
youzi, 中國

一朝君主一朝臣,他當選政協副主席已經是很不錯的了.下台是遲早的事情,這樣一來還有個著落.香港始終是快"肥肉",怎麼樣也要給"自己人"吧!
KILL THE BILL,

為什麼辭職?因為組織早有安排!
勇敢的心, 中國

可憐的木偶,不會有什麼成績的,香港即將淪為專制資本主義社會!
夏雨溪, PRC

董老,已經為香港700萬人民做出了自己的努力,成績也是大家有目共睹的,千萬不要站著說話不腰疼啊。不管過去怎麼樣,那已經成為歷史了,關鍵是以後700萬香港人,該是你們自己選擇的時候了
, china

完全同意董先生以健康理由辭職.他畢竟已經是年近古稀的老人了.確實因該讓位給年輕些的人了.北京在這件事中當然起了重要的作用.基本法規定香港特首是授權於北京的.特首任命和離職理所當然是要得到北京認可的.董先生辭職的時機很好.目前香港已經見到曙光,董先生能夠功成身退,在平穩中交棒給接班人.使得那些以"倒董"為幌子,實際反對香港回歸的政客們陣腳大亂,民望失分,從而香港的前途更加光明,更加繁榮穩定.
北子, 中國香港

專政戰線少了一員大將,死了張3還有李4!
嚮往民主社會的人, china

錯不在董,而在中央,香港的問題是有那麼一大堆多年殖民教育出的簡單腦袋,與其保港托市,百般維持,不如早早讓其民主,等到滿街民運亂串,百業調零,民不聊生,簡單腦袋們見到了棺材也就該流淚了,到時再堂堂正正收拾殘局,清除民運垃圾,簡單腦袋們也就死心踏地了。
哈哈,

On the one hand, hurrah to the resignation of Tung Chee-hwa; on the other hand, I am worried if HK can maintain her autonomy since it's undoubtedly that China does play a big role in this event. Tung's resignation is absolutely because of the pressure from Peking. He's no longer the favoured son since Hu Jintao, the Chief Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, & Wen Jiabao, the Prime Minister of China, came to power -- he's been insulted by the Chinese leaders in the public for several time!!!

Tung's resignations, unfortunately, doesn't mark the victory of the people's force though there have been at least over 500 thousands people protesting against him since 2003. His resignation marks a strong signal or I should say a warning that China will play a more active role in HK affairs in the future...

I am quite disappointed to reaction by the Chinese government as well as overall HK society! For former, Tung's resignation not only showed how autocratic the Communist regime is, but also how they unrespected the HKese view & feeling. For the latter, they converted HK as a world city as a pure local Chinese village, either the local media, the pro-China politicans or the democrats did commit to do so...
Yat-sen逸仙, Hong Kong

I am pretty happy to know that someone is reading my comment. Thank you for your personal interest in responding to my humble opinion. Let me offer my humble answer to your comment.
-First, please check out the meaning of the phrase 'to get a life' in OED before you use the term.
-Second, the illegal immigrants' issue is a very popular one among some people from the West, when they talk about anything related to China. I, personally, was asked to respond to that question some 20 yrs ago. I can answer your question in details, if BBC has the time to publish it. To put it in a simple way: in today's world, more countries are opening thier doors to Chinese tourists, with a lot of cash in their pockets at that. To my knowledge, thousands of foreign companies made millions of dollars, or sterlings, just because of China boom. Can you see the points? Does China still have illegal immigrants issue? Yes. But what you said in your comment 'general trend' is proved to be otherwise. Unless you personally were not benefittedby the boom.
-Third, look at today's British Univ.s, they try very hard to woo Chinese students from mainland in order to keep the cash to balance their budget. I can give you dozens of examples from the very recent history of Canada. I refrain myself from doing so because I am not too sure you know much about this part of the world. Let me know if you do.
-Finally, when I said that 'we don't know politics.' I meant that a lot of things happening behind the doors in politics that common people don't know, e.g. Do you have any idea how much business Chris Pattern brought home from HK during his term? Do you want to know? When I said that the oppointment of Tong was to 'keep as much $$$ as possible in HK', I meant that there were many Tycoons living in HK, a relative neutral one must be found in order to keep the outflow of assets in check. I can cite few example in this regard, if the space permitting.
To sum up: we are talking about two totally different issues here. My advice to you is that try to read more books before you comment on other's comment. Try NOT to follow suit, just because you read pieces of news in your local paper. If you don't have time for books,I strongly recommend that you read Martin Wolf's column in Finacial Times, if you really want to understand today's China. Mr. Wolf is a British gentleman, and he is living in the West. His points of view will definitely help people, like you, to have a balanced view on China, N.Korea, or even your own country. Your feedback is more than welcome. By the way, leave your name, even if a fake one.
Dee, Canada

小事一件,香港人不要將自己看得那樣大,香港的政治,在國際舞台上只不過很濕碎(trivial),即使在香港一般市民心中,也是極漠然的,其實最有興致關心討論只有吾等無所事事亦無所成就的有閑階級,而且我們其中大部份自以為有點識見的,其實只是在跟隨著傳謀人及半吊子政客們的指揮在起舞。
地球生物, 香港

基本上董建華的去與留對我們香港人沒甚麼感受,因我們7百萬港人沒有權利選特首,在這7百萬人中只有中央指定那4百名港商及政協人大等的小圈子選舉團有權推選董特首而已。但站在"東方海外"的股民可以肯定口的功勞,97前他公司瀕臨破產邊沿,在這時政協副主席霍英東蔚眼垂晴丈義解囊助董特首家族渡過財困,然後提名董建華做特首,從始"東方海外"在上海、北京等地的房地產生意大開綠燈,他就任特首7年半,家族財產由破財邊沿番了幾十番暴漲至百多2百億身家,如他能完成餘下的2年半任期,必能突破5百億身家,真為他感到不快(因上海幫江澤民退下了,再不能繼續為鄉里董特首挺)不過他的"東方海外"股價從數元升至幾十元,亦為我這股民帶了一點進賬,另外更為他興奮是他能更進一步能成為政協副主席國家令導人級,再為中國13億人民出謀獻策,更勝香港特別行政區的經濟成就。
"東方海外"的股民, 中國香港特別行政區

董之請辭,是選擇了恰當時機,我估計董在去年巳有意請辭,可能在多方評估利弊後才決定在今天,並與兩會巧恰配合,順自然入政協當副主席﹔但民主派頓時失了鬥爭方向,亂了陣,形成散沙一盆,成不了氣候,今後無論誰當特首,在現在政治氣候下必然會有成效得多,我看香港今後必向好方面發展。
ayhs, 香港

董是個好人,可沒有執政經驗,不知作政治人物的麻煩,更不知在華人區從政的苦處。香港人在英國殖民統治下被欺負的老老實實,從不敢跟港督討什麼公道,現在的政府執政,他們反倒挑三揀四,不識好歹,得了便宜還賣乖。他們趕董下台,實際上是向中央政府示威。中央太寵香港了,讓他們不知自己姓什麼。現在不要管香港,不要就香港經濟--既然是兩制,他們就該自己救自己。餓一餓他們就知道跟內地過不去沒他們的好。華人區只有新加坡是好的,新加坡才不管什麼民主不民主,保持社會穩定,經濟繁榮是真的。香港人想走台灣的路別攔著他們,讓他們上上下下打成一鍋粥,全體挨餓就知道誰是好人了!
難得明白, 北京

其實在香港無論系邊個做特首都會有七﹒一遊行。依個系由香港的社會環境造成的,有D人就系無事找事做!
未署名, UK

中共的棋子
沒有署名, 地球

I am support MR. tong as I think he has try his best. Maybe he is not done very well ,but he has try .If your result is not very good, will your mother punish you? My mother will not because she know I have try my best.If I can't do that,whatever you do, I can't do that too. So I think you only should punish the 800 people As they CHOOSE Mr. TONG.
yoyo, Hong Kong

Those people who marched and called for Mr Tong's downfall , now that you have done it, do you think your democratic fighters would get into power? You should know the answer is not. Are you going to try the same again with the next CEO then?

If things get out of hand in HK, your democratic fighters would be on the first plane out of HK, heading to opening arms held out by their foreign masters, asylum status assured.

Will you be so lucky? If you are not sure, don't push it too far. If you don't like it there, leave like me. If you choose to stay, do your best within the system. It's not a bad system, better than it was under the British, far better than the rest of China. I'm sure it will get better too, provided you don't do anything silly. Perhap things won't happen as fast as you like. But why the hurry? You waited for 150 years for a chance to vote and you can vote now. I know you it is not enough to make me happy, but more will come. A greedy child ends up loosing everything you know that. You have more freedom than you did before. You have marched, made protests and got rid of the CEO. Did you do that to the Governor appointed by the British King or Queen before? Could you have done that before? You probably say you could. But you didn't, did you? Was it because he was chosen by your Majesty the King or Queen of England. Oh, is that why? I see. It all make sense. So you should show your loyalty and come to England to live. Ops, you couldn't. Could you? They changed the law before talking to China about leaving HK, to make sure you are not real British, your British passports are different and wouldn't allow you to stay.

By the way, I think they have changed the law back now, people issued with British passports from dependent territories can come and stay now. Not you lot though. So you are stuck with the communists. But don't worry about that. I can't see anything communistic about them at all. They are more capitalistic than the capitalist here. I know. It's for than reason I chose to stay here.

If you want to come to Britian, I will show you a trick. It is not a trick any more. Lots of Chinese people from FuJian use it. You just come to England, tell the kind-hearted English people that you are perscuted by the commuists, say you believe in Christ or FalanGong. I don't recommend saing both of these things, although I know some of them did and worked the same way. If you want to do it, do it soon, because the people in the UK are getting fed up about this. I don't blame them. Actually I am angry too, because I pay lots of tax. Bye now. I know you don't do it, but send my regards to Mr Tong on my behalf.
TK, UK

8年不易啊!該歇歇啦
LEE, CN

董建華志大才疏又不聽人言,所以才會這樣吃力不討好。其實香港有良好的經濟和法制基基礎,只要凡事按部就班,廣納忠言的話這個特首是不難當的。我們看澳門的何厚鏵不就是做得挺好嘛。
ying, 香港

To Dee, Canada, 即使不是政治家也應該知道大趨勢……
(原文:You dont' have to be a politician to know the general trend. Starting as early as 50s, many Mainland Chinese "illegally crossed the border to get to HK. Some even lost their lives. Today, the number of illegal immigrants is still increasing. To those people, it is the only way to "get a life". I hope someday overseas Chinese and foreigners will flow the other way round like some N. Koreans are doing. )
未署名

應該說他接這個位置之前就知道這個位置不好坐,但也許當時他是比較合適的人選,所以他接受了。大家應該看到97金融風暴及回歸後香港角色的改變都對香港有重大的影響,而再這段時間裡香港竭力保證了生活不受重大影響,董的工作應該得到肯定。相比較而言,在本應該團結起來共度難關時,民進黨就像投機倒把的投機商運用街頭地皮流氓的手段對香港政府進行辱罵和各種形式的攻擊。董建華沒有採取有效的措施而是百般規勸,難道沒有聽說過以牙還牙,以眼還眼嗎。'董建華擔任特首的8年期間,香港問題不斷,先是亞洲金融風暴,接著又出現了薩斯疫情。' 這簡評有把世界上其他地方引起的問題全都歸成香港政府的過錯的嫌疑。由此也可以看出,這BBC媒體對香港事務的報道傾向了。
Chun, uk

一連串錯誤之後的明智但無奈之舉吧。他想留任,有誰還會要他呢?
yh,

你們以為董想當特首麼。誰當誰挨罵,兩面不是人。
看人挑擔不吃力, UK

個人看法,我完全肯定董建華當特首的功勞。某些港人對董的批評不存好意。香港現在是特區而不是英殖民地。的確相信歷史會給董特首公證評價。
王海平, 澳大利亞

董先生並不需要著錢,我也不相信他是為了名利……
(原文:Mr Tong didn't need the money that went with the job and I believe he wasn't after the fame or power either. Unlike the many politicians that criticise him and ultimately responsible for his ill-health and resignation. Could any of them do better? I doubt it. Whoever in power over the last 8 years no doubt in mind would suffer the same fate as Mr Tong. The only exception is the foreign-backed, opportunistic so-called democratic politicians. Did they have any chance for power over the last 8 years or will they ever will? I don?‾t think so. They know that too. The best they could do was to make life difficult for Mr Tong, HK will never be allowed to have a CEO who does not want to work with the Central Government. HK will never be run by a bunch of people hostile to the mainland. Nobody in HK is superior than the people in the rest of China. If HK people know this, they will treat their next leader better; and everyone would have a better chance for a good future and there will be less chance for confrontations and chaos.)
MG, UK

看看7年前他的容貌,看看現在他的頭髮、眼眉全白了。才不到70歲。7年放假59天半。已經功成名就的人,明知"萬事開頭難"還接過特首的職位。香港的朋友們,拋開政績、過錯不說,對這樣一個老人,你們對他做了什麼?
claude, 中國/暫居英國

要是我們相信彭定康到香港是給人們帶去民主的話我們就太天真了……
(原文:We were too naive if we really believed that Chris Pattern went to HK to bring Democracy to the people then. He went there in order to bring as much $$$ back to British companies as possible..... The opposite was true when we talk about Tong's case. He was appointed as CEO of HK after 1997 just in order to keep as much $$$ within HK as possible.... Did he achieve that? YOU TELL ME. For those guys, either on British side or on Chinese side, my advice is: WE DON'T KNOW POLITICS. WE'D BETTER SHUT UP. GET A LIFE, MY FRIENDS.)
Dee, Canada

好消息……
(原文:A GOOD NEWS , NOT ONLY FOR HONG KONG ,BUT ALSO FOR CHINA ....)
qoo , UK

他的商人背景,加上議而不決的性格,令官商勾結日漸嚴重,貧者愈貧,富者愈富,多少打工仔,被逼每天超時工作,但只能賺取微薄的薪酬!如此無能領導,早應下台,退位讓賢。
gensan, Hong Kong SAR

看了好多人的帖子,好像對北京不滿意,你做得好,你想讓北京怎么辦?
沒有調查就沒有發言權, 尼日利亞

雖然從很多方面看董建華8年的特首生涯不能說是一個成功的範例,但這其中既有其個人的能力的局限,更有外界環境的無奈。現在香港的經濟正在復蘇,社會也趨於穩定,在這個時候,董建華作出這樣一個退位讓賢的決定正是時候,也是一種負責任的表現。至於說北京政府在董建華辭職的事件中扮演什麼樣的角色,個人以為這樣的問題設計就有引導性的嫌疑。沒有相關證據只憑猜測沒有什麼意義。不過可以肯定地說,北京的態度在這個事件中是至關重要的,而且也必然和應該是至關重要的。
隱者, uk

北京如果順應民意,七一大遊行的時候董就應該下台了,繼續撐到現在依然不是民意主導,主要是北京中央接班了,他隨同江氏人馬一起被換掉,當一個有名無實的政協副主席,如此而已,民意對北京來說根本可有可無....
說了也沒用, UK

“特別行政區首長”只是一個有名無實的稱號, 是中共和港人之間的擋箭牌。董先生說得對,這個位真不好做,一邊要聽“上大人”的命令,另一面受港人的冷嘲熱諷,真大的壓力! 這7年多來,他做得不錯了! 但願香港能平安無事吧!
未署名,

老江時代結束了。對於董建華這種沒政治頭腦的木偶,我想還是讓他解甲歸田吧,要不沒了幕後的“指引”,他在台上只有丟臉的份!
老懵懂, 中國

一朝皇帝一朝臣,這也是必然的!
未署名, 雅加達

如果我對諸位說,不久的哪一天我王老五會突然成為中央級的幹部,諸位一定會說我瘋了.其實董建華就是這麼上去的.他是資本家,因為上邊看上了就搖身一變成了行政官員.不知大家還記得不記得貧下中農陳永貴就是一下子當上了副總理,倪志福,吳桂賢也一樣.這就是中國獨有的傳統.
未署名,

董建華不過是北京扶持的傀儡,接棒的是曾*建華,再接棒的是X*建華,---。香港人民的悲哀!
實話實說, 中國北京

各位如果想看一下什麼叫假大空,請聽一下董先生過去的談話,何等無恥,無能,無良...
HKer, 新加坡

不知道,但肯定不是很好的事.
涼心,

董的辭職實際上並非本人情願,也並非統治能力問題,完全是基於未來的權力分配的框架與體系的問題,即香港本身的行政首腦可以由中央通過壓力予以廢黜,這樣即使未來行政首腦普選產生,大陸也有能力廢黜不中意的領導人,從這件事上也說明,香港的政權服務的對象是北京政權,因為佔香港主體的各階層無論通過任何非暴力的手段都無法使侵犯香港民眾利益的領導人下台,而北京僅僅不滿意就可以使香港的首腦下野,導致香港實際實際上已經並入大陸的省級首腦的委任制的管理體系,對各種民主黨派的政治限制與打壓本質上是強化行政權力而弱化立法權,控制行政首腦的去留也就控制了香港,大陸也就可以根據自身利益需要決定香港的未來,至於香港民眾的需求北京是不會完全考慮的,香港的轉口港的地位基本上隨中國的開發程度的加深而大大削弱,但是其英國統治遺留下的體系仍然維繫香港的發展。
但是董的上任也存在一個嚐試,即漸進式消除英國遺留的管理系統逐步向大陸授權委任管理體系靠攏,下一任只會繼續這一過程,消滅民主人權,通過行政手段掠奪民間財富的遊戲僅僅剛剛開始。如果未來香港後悔了罵娘,只能怪自己在政治運動上過於幼稚,沒有用暴力手段維護權利。要知道實現普選沒有暴力怎能獲取,89年的六四已經告訴結果了,想以和平手段獲得並維護權利完全是夢想,認為北京會全力維護並支持香港更是妄想,現實的復蘇完全是公款消費在拉動,是無法持久的。
九章介石, 中國大陸

由武大郎開店到奸人當道!
未署名,

做得好,無人讚,何不放下重擔,釋放壓力,瀟洒走一回。
馮國梁, 美國

我認為董建華政府是在2003年7月1號倒台的。那個時候,有五十萬到七十萬人上街游行抗議。
HKer, UK

遊戲結束了!
未署名, 北京

他這種官員,只要中央政府不再支持他了,他這特首的官運不是自然就到盡頭了嗎?--比京扮什麼角色?這問題本身就很可笑。這從頭到尾就是一齣有中國特色的傳統皮影戲。
沉默的聲音, 中國



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