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2005年03月14日 格林尼治标准时间00:10北京时间 08:10发表
论坛:如何看董建华辞职?

董建华
香港特别行政区首长董建华以健康的原因辞职。

他否认被北京的中央领导解职。北京在英国1997年把香港主权移交给中国时挑选他担当此重任。

董建华担任特首的8年期间,香港问题不断,先是亚洲金融风暴,接着又出现了萨斯疫情。

他还受到批评,说他支持中央政府试图限制香港民主改革的努力。

欢迎参加BBC中文网关于董建华辞职的讨论。你认为北京在董建华的辞职中扮演了何种角色?香港的前途会有何种变化?


网友评论:

定点清除才是解决办法...
hitman.co, china/uk

董建华是共产党在香港统治的一条狗, 对它在香港的利用价值已尽。关于对付香港自由民主的潮流, 大陆还会有新把戏, 还会找到替代之, 独裁者对香港的影响不会轻易放弃。
nnn, 瑞士

一句话:这世界老实人最可爱也最可欺!北京的大老正是看准老董老实,八年前拉扯上他,授命让他在香港唱一出《明知山有虎,偏向虎山行》;亏我们老董一心"爱国"爱昏了头,竟然放下有钱赚的船老板不做,情愿出卖已知比生命和爱情更可宝贵的"自由"。这八年不长不短,可不知我们可爱的老董究竟尝够了人前欢笑背人哭的日子没有?好了,现在终于解脱了,却解脱得真没面子,不但要北上报到,按指定时间"辞职"(幸而比"开除"和"撤职"好一点),还得遵命在堂皇的人民大会堂(罚)坐冷板凳陪笑不晓得要陪多久……老董呀老董,你还有多少"自由"可以出卖?真想不通你身材结实为什么胆子这么小!其实早就有好多好多次以为你会忍不住把桌子一推大叫一声"老子不干了",想不到你忍辱负重的耐力还真比老牛厉害数十百倍!唉,人生短短数十年,为什么你总是想不通?对酒当歌,人生几何?为自由,你醒醒你醒醒吧!
mokky, singapore

同意董先生以健康理由辞职.他已是古稀的老人了. 在位8年,其施政纲领也已用完,让位给年轻些的人了,政策也会有新意,对香港经济会有更大作用.董辞职的时机很好.目前香港已经见到曙光,董先生能够功成身退,可谓激流勇退。而香港的民主在换届选举中也可显现出来。事实上,中央不希望香港的民主倒退,当然希望香港的经济对内地有更大作为。而事实,这几年,比起香港对内地的援助来说,内陆对香港援助更大。所以,中央对香港的经济有些不满。香港,加油!
william, Canada

董建华完成了历史使命,不过香港今天的繁荣、民主和法治,得益于英国殖民统治的传统,包括商业精神和文明。 董建华的功绩自有香港人民评价,不过《基本法》第二十三条,的确是其主政的败笔,他完全可以和北京当局据理力争,第二十三条对中共北京当局来说,甚无意义,反而暴露出其专制独裁的野心,对台湾统战是极大的负面影响。几十万香港同胞的大游行就宣告了董建华最后主政岁月的失败!
共产奴隶,

一个正港的香港人会回答说:政治唔关我事,我最继续开到工同靠到食.

香港本来就是一个这样的靠食基地,或曰全球最大的生产财富的工厂.我们的家只是不同豪华级别的宿舍.

不要说不能成为国家,连城市也达不上标.

所以搞政治永远也不会成什么气候,是以在香港最有才华的人,必然会敬谢不敏的.

无奈的是:一,历史上出现了这个伟人邓,其实是香港的魁星,要搞什么世纪新构作:一国两制,港人治港.二,香港土壤养育出一些不俏,半吊子的政客,他们无所能为,识见短浅,也要学人来搞搞这个政治......

噢!

我不会说这就是香港悲剧的开绐,虽则我性格悲观,但香港还不致那样悲观,所以我还不能如此说,我只能说香港的好日子渐渐远离,以后尽是苦闷的日子.

苦闷的香港!


地球生物, 香港

中央该合并港澳特区,由何先生当首任特首,董先生吃亏在太听话了,代人受过,中央该换在港特派员,他们太无能了。
另类见解, china,yunnan

在他心中从来只有一国,没有两制。一国两制就是由他亲手断送!

谁人会问无钱开饭的老人家:"点解唔食月饼?"董建华就是这个人!一个不知穷人困苦的特首!

一面话关心老人问题,一面大刀减综援的特首!

一面话教育好重要,一面大力减去大学拨款的特首!


人在做,天在看, 香港

共产党的钱不好用吧,建华!还是当正经的商人简单吧,再干下去,再留个千古骂名就不划算了!!!!
real businessman, hong kong

北京啊北京,何苦干吃力不讨好的事情了。把我们无产阶级民工的血汗钱喂这些'高等华人'搞民主自由?什么挺港?香港回归中国,他们就是中国人,凭什么香港人可以享受不一样的制度?哪个国家公开地把公民分为三六九等?
好人,大陆,

老董其实是做得很不错,但可惜时运是很不好! 结果便成为了无知港人的口中的罪人。 现在香港经济已复苏,而他体质也不如从前,这时候引退也算是时机恰当!
alex, canada

董伯伯!这8年来,你被上面的人扯着,下面的人对你吐口水,还是休息吧!
无名氏, 欧洲

任何人当香港特首,都要铲除氓子败类,香港才有安定繁荣。

美式民主碎苏俄
港毒氓子成乱祸
若有铁腕除败类
香港居民乐趣多

意特工被美军击毙,证明花旗走狗必不好死。 香港的氓子败类就是花旗魔爪的走狗,必不好死是肯定的了。
世外生物, 外层空间

共产党的政策不错,就是共产党的干部大部分是一群贪官混蛋,投诉无门哦,只能忍受啦
youzi, 中国

一朝君主一朝臣,他当选政协副主席已经是很不错的了.下台是迟早的事情,这样一来还有个着落.香港始终是快"肥肉",怎么样也要给"自己人"吧!
KILL THE BILL,

为什么辞职?因为组织早有安排!
勇敢的心, 中国

可怜的木偶,不会有什么成绩的,香港即将沦为专制资本主义社会!
夏雨溪, PRC

董老,已经为香港700万人民做出了自己的努力,成绩也是大家有目共睹的,千万不要站着说话不腰疼啊。不管过去怎么样,那已经成为历史了,关键是以后700万香港人,该是你们自己选择的时候了
, china

完全同意董先生以健康理由辞职.他毕竟已经是年近古稀的老人了.确实因该让位给年轻些的人了.北京在这件事中当然起了重要的作用.基本法规定香港特首是授权于北京的.特首任命和离职理所当然是要得到北京认可的.董先生辞职的时机很好.目前香港已经见到曙光,董先生能够功成身退,在平稳中交棒给接班人.使得那些以"倒董"为幌子,实际反对香港回归的政客们阵脚大乱,民望失分,从而香港的前途更加光明,更加繁荣稳定.
北子, 中国香港

专政战线少了一员大将,死了张3还有李4!
向往民主社会的人, china

错不在董,而在中央,香港的问题是有那么一大堆多年殖民教育出的简单脑袋,与其保港托市,百般维持,不如早早让其民主,等到满街民运乱串,百业调零,民不聊生,简单脑袋们见到了棺材也就该流泪了,到时再堂堂正正收拾残局,清除民运垃圾,简单脑袋们也就死心踏地了。
哈哈,

On the one hand, hurrah to the resignation of Tung Chee-hwa; on the other hand, I am worried if HK can maintain her autonomy since it's undoubtedly that China does play a big role in this event. Tung's resignation is absolutely because of the pressure from Peking. He's no longer the favoured son since Hu Jintao, the Chief Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, & Wen Jiabao, the Prime Minister of China, came to power -- he's been insulted by the Chinese leaders in the public for several time!!!

Tung's resignations, unfortunately, doesn't mark the victory of the people's force though there have been at least over 500 thousands people protesting against him since 2003. His resignation marks a strong signal or I should say a warning that China will play a more active role in HK affairs in the future...

I am quite disappointed to reaction by the Chinese government as well as overall HK society! For former, Tung's resignation not only showed how autocratic the Communist regime is, but also how they unrespected the HKese view & feeling. For the latter, they converted HK as a world city as a pure local Chinese village, either the local media, the pro-China politicans or the democrats did commit to do so...
Yat-sen逸仙, Hong Kong

I am pretty happy to know that someone is reading my comment. Thank you for your personal interest in responding to my humble opinion. Let me offer my humble answer to your comment.
-First, please check out the meaning of the phrase 'to get a life' in OED before you use the term.
-Second, the illegal immigrants' issue is a very popular one among some people from the West, when they talk about anything related to China. I, personally, was asked to respond to that question some 20 yrs ago. I can answer your question in details, if BBC has the time to publish it. To put it in a simple way: in today's world, more countries are opening thier doors to Chinese tourists, with a lot of cash in their pockets at that. To my knowledge, thousands of foreign companies made millions of dollars, or sterlings, just because of China boom. Can you see the points? Does China still have illegal immigrants issue? Yes. But what you said in your comment 'general trend' is proved to be otherwise. Unless you personally were not benefittedby the boom.
-Third, look at today's British Univ.s, they try very hard to woo Chinese students from mainland in order to keep the cash to balance their budget. I can give you dozens of examples from the very recent history of Canada. I refrain myself from doing so because I am not too sure you know much about this part of the world. Let me know if you do.
-Finally, when I said that 'we don't know politics.' I meant that a lot of things happening behind the doors in politics that common people don't know, e.g. Do you have any idea how much business Chris Pattern brought home from HK during his term? Do you want to know? When I said that the oppointment of Tong was to 'keep as much $$$ as possible in HK', I meant that there were many Tycoons living in HK, a relative neutral one must be found in order to keep the outflow of assets in check. I can cite few example in this regard, if the space permitting.
To sum up: we are talking about two totally different issues here. My advice to you is that try to read more books before you comment on other's comment. Try NOT to follow suit, just because you read pieces of news in your local paper. If you don't have time for books,I strongly recommend that you read Martin Wolf's column in Finacial Times, if you really want to understand today's China. Mr. Wolf is a British gentleman, and he is living in the West. His points of view will definitely help people, like you, to have a balanced view on China, N.Korea, or even your own country. Your feedback is more than welcome. By the way, leave your name, even if a fake one.
Dee, Canada

小事一件,香港人不要将自己看得那样大,香港的政治,在国际舞台上只不过很湿碎(trivial),即使在香港一般市民心中,也是极漠然的,其实最有兴致关心讨论只有吾等无所事事亦无所成就的有闲阶级,而且我们其中大部份自以为有点识见的,其实只是在跟随着传谋人及半吊子政客们的指挥在起舞。
地球生物, 香港

基本上董建华的去与留对我们香港人没甚么感受,因我们7百万港人没有权利选特首,在这7百万人中只有中央指定那4百名港商及政协人大等的小圈子选举团有权推选董特首而已。但站在"东方海外"的股民可以肯定口的功劳,97前他公司濒临破产边沿,在这时政协副主席霍英东蔚眼垂晴丈义解囊助董特首家族渡过财困,然后提名董建华做特首,从始"东方海外"在上海、北京等地的房地产生意大开绿灯,他就任特首7年半,家族财产由破财边沿番了几十番暴涨至百多2百亿身家,如他能完成余下的2年半任期,必能突破5百亿身家,真为他感到不快(因上海帮江泽民退下了,再不能继续为乡里董特首挺)不过他的"东方海外"股价从数元升至几十元,亦为我这股民带了一点进账,另外更为他兴奋是他能更进一步能成为政协副主席国家令导人级,再为中国13亿人民出谋献策,更胜香港特别行政区的经济成就。
"东方海外"的股民, 中国香港特别行政区

董之请辞,是选择了恰当时机,我估计董在去年巳有意请辞,可能在多方评估利弊后才决定在今天,并与两会巧恰配合,顺自然入政协当副主席;但民主派顿时失了斗争方向,乱了阵,形成散沙一盆,成不了气候,今后无论谁当特首,在现在政治气候下必然会有成效得多,我看香港今后必向好方面发展。
ayhs, 香港

董是个好人,可没有执政经验,不知作政治人物的麻烦,更不知在华人区从政的苦处。香港人在英国殖民统治下被欺负的老老实实,从不敢跟港督讨什么公道,现在的政府执政,他们反倒挑三拣四,不识好歹,得了便宜还卖乖。他们赶董下台,实际上是向中央政府示威。中央太宠香港了,让他们不知自己姓什么。现在不要管香港,不要就香港经济--既然是两制,他们就该自己救自己。饿一饿他们就知道跟内地过不去没他们的好。华人区只有新加坡是好的,新加坡才不管什么民主不民主,保持社会稳定,经济繁荣是真的。香港人想走台湾的路别拦着他们,让他们上上下下打成一锅粥,全体挨饿就知道谁是好人了!
难得明白, 北京

其实在香港无论系边个做特首都会有七·一游行。依个系由香港的社会环境造成的,有D人就系无事找事做!
未署名, UK

中共的棋子
没有署名, 地球

I am support MR. tong as I think he has try his best. Maybe he is not done very well ,but he has try .If your result is not very good, will your mother punish you? My mother will not because she know I have try my best.If I can't do that,whatever you do, I can't do that too. So I think you only should punish the 800 people As they CHOOSE Mr. TONG.
yoyo, Hong Kong

Those people who marched and called for Mr Tong's downfall , now that you have done it, do you think your democratic fighters would get into power? You should know the answer is not. Are you going to try the same again with the next CEO then?

If things get out of hand in HK, your democratic fighters would be on the first plane out of HK, heading to opening arms held out by their foreign masters, asylum status assured.

Will you be so lucky? If you are not sure, don't push it too far. If you don't like it there, leave like me. If you choose to stay, do your best within the system. It's not a bad system, better than it was under the British, far better than the rest of China. I'm sure it will get better too, provided you don't do anything silly. Perhap things won't happen as fast as you like. But why the hurry? You waited for 150 years for a chance to vote and you can vote now. I know you it is not enough to make me happy, but more will come. A greedy child ends up loosing everything you know that. You have more freedom than you did before. You have marched, made protests and got rid of the CEO. Did you do that to the Governor appointed by the British King or Queen before? Could you have done that before? You probably say you could. But you didn't, did you? Was it because he was chosen by your Majesty the King or Queen of England. Oh, is that why? I see. It all make sense. So you should show your loyalty and come to England to live. Ops, you couldn't. Could you? They changed the law before talking to China about leaving HK, to make sure you are not real British, your British passports are different and wouldn't allow you to stay.

By the way, I think they have changed the law back now, people issued with British passports from dependent territories can come and stay now. Not you lot though. So you are stuck with the communists. But don't worry about that. I can't see anything communistic about them at all. They are more capitalistic than the capitalist here. I know. It's for than reason I chose to stay here.

If you want to come to Britian, I will show you a trick. It is not a trick any more. Lots of Chinese people from FuJian use it. You just come to England, tell the kind-hearted English people that you are perscuted by the commuists, say you believe in Christ or FalanGong. I don't recommend saing both of these things, although I know some of them did and worked the same way. If you want to do it, do it soon, because the people in the UK are getting fed up about this. I don't blame them. Actually I am angry too, because I pay lots of tax. Bye now. I know you don't do it, but send my regards to Mr Tong on my behalf.
TK, UK

8年不易啊!该歇歇啦
LEE, CN

董建华志大才疏又不听人言,所以才会这样吃力不讨好。其实香港有良好的经济和法制基基础,只要凡事按部就班,广纳忠言的话这个特首是不难当的。我们看澳门的何厚铧不就是做得挺好嘛。
ying, 香港

To Dee, Canada, 即使不是政治家也应该知道大趋势……
(原文:You dont' have to be a politician to know the general trend. Starting as early as 50s, many Mainland Chinese "illegally crossed the border to get to HK. Some even lost their lives. Today, the number of illegal immigrants is still increasing. To those people, it is the only way to "get a life". I hope someday overseas Chinese and foreigners will flow the other way round like some N. Koreans are doing. )
未署名

应该说他接这个位置之前就知道这个位置不好坐,但也许当时他是比较合适的人选,所以他接受了。大家应该看到97金融风暴及回归后香港角色的改变都对香港有重大的影响,而再这段时间里香港竭力保证了生活不受重大影响,董的工作应该得到肯定。相比较而言,在本应该团结起来共度难关时,民进党就象投机倒把的投机商运用街头地皮流氓的手段对香港政府进行辱骂和各种形式的攻击。董建华没有采取有效的措施而是百般规劝,难道没有听说过以牙还牙,以眼还眼吗。'董建华担任特首的8年期间,香港问题不断,先是亚洲金融风暴,接着又出现了萨斯疫情。' 这简评有把世界上其他地方引起的问题全都归成香港政府的过错的嫌疑。由此也可以看出,这BBC媒体对香港事务的报道倾向了。
Chun, uk

一连串错误之后的明智但无奈之举吧。他想留任,有谁还会要他呢?
yh,

你们以为董想当特首么。谁当谁挨骂,两面不是人。
看人挑担不吃力, UK

个人看法,我完全肯定董建华当特首的功劳。某些港人对董的批评不存好意。香港现在是特区而不是英殖民地。的确相信历史会给董特首公证评价。
王海平, 澳大利亚

董先生并不需要着钱,我也不相信他是为了名利……
(原文:Mr Tong didn't need the money that went with the job and I believe he wasn't after the fame or power either. Unlike the many politicians that criticise him and ultimately responsible for his ill-health and resignation. Could any of them do better? I doubt it. Whoever in power over the last 8 years no doubt in mind would suffer the same fate as Mr Tong. The only exception is the foreign-backed, opportunistic so-called democratic politicians. Did they have any chance for power over the last 8 years or will they ever will? I don?ˉt think so. They know that too. The best they could do was to make life difficult for Mr Tong, HK will never be allowed to have a CEO who does not want to work with the Central Government. HK will never be run by a bunch of people hostile to the mainland. Nobody in HK is superior than the people in the rest of China. If HK people know this, they will treat their next leader better; and everyone would have a better chance for a good future and there will be less chance for confrontations and chaos.)
MG, UK

看看7年前他的容貌,看看现在他的头发、眼眉全白了。才不到70岁。7年放假59天半。已经功成名就的人,明知"万事开头难"还接过特首的职位。香港的朋友们,抛开政绩、过错不说,对这样一个老人,你们对他做了什么?
claude, 中国/暂居英国

要是我们相信彭定康到香港是给人们带去民主的话我们就太天真了……
(原文:We were too naive if we really believed that Chris Pattern went to HK to bring Democracy to the people then. He went there in order to bring as much $$$ back to British companies as possible..... The opposite was true when we talk about Tong's case. He was appointed as CEO of HK after 1997 just in order to keep as much $$$ within HK as possible.... Did he achieve that? YOU TELL ME. For those guys, either on British side or on Chinese side, my advice is: WE DON'T KNOW POLITICS. WE'D BETTER SHUT UP. GET A LIFE, MY FRIENDS.)
Dee, Canada

好消息……
(原文:A GOOD NEWS , NOT ONLY FOR HONG KONG ,BUT ALSO FOR CHINA ....)
qoo , UK

他的商人背景,加上议而不决的性格,令官商勾结日渐严重,贫者愈贫,富者愈富,多少打工仔,被逼每天超时工作,但只能赚取微薄的薪酬!如此无能领导,早应下台,退位让贤。
gensan, Hong Kong SAR

看了好多人的帖子,好像对北京不满意,你做得好,你想让北京怎么办?
没有调查就没有发言权, 尼日利亚

虽然从很多方面看董建华8年的特首生涯不能说是一个成功的范例,但这其中既有其个人的能力的局限,更有外界环境的无奈。现在香港的经济正在复苏,社会也趋于稳定,在这个时候,董建华作出这样一个退位让贤的决定正是时候,也是一种负责任的表现。至于说北京政府在董建华辞职的事件中扮演什么样的角色,个人以为这样的问题设计就有引导性的嫌疑。没有相关证据只凭猜测没有什么意义。不过可以肯定地说,北京的态度在这个事件中是至关重要的,而且也必然和应该是至关重要的。
隐者, uk

北京如果顺应民意,七一大游行的时候董就应该下台了,继续撑到现在依然不是民意主导,主要是北京中央接班了,他随同江氏人马一起被换掉,当一个有名无实的政协副主席,如此而已,民意对北京来说根本可有可无....
说了也没用, UK

“特别行政区首长”只是一个有名无实的称号, 是中共和港人之间的挡箭牌。董先生说得对,这个位真不好做,一边要听“上大人”的命令,另一面受港人的冷嘲热讽,真大的压力! 这7年多来,他做得不错了! 但愿香港能平安无事吧!
未署名,

老江时代结束了。对于董建华这种没政治头脑的木偶,我想还是让他解甲归田吧,要不没了幕后的“指引”,他在台上只有丢脸的份!
老懵懂, 中国

一朝皇帝一朝臣,这也是必然的!
未署名, 雅加达

如果我对诸位说,不久的哪一天我王老五会突然成为中央级的干部,诸位一定会说我疯了.其实董建华就是这么上去的.他是资本家,因为上边看上了就摇身一变成了行政官员.不知大家还记得不记得贫下中农陈永贵就是一下子当上了副总理,倪志福,吴桂贤也一样.这就是中国独有的传统.
未署名,

董建华不过是北京扶持的傀儡,接棒的是曾*建华,再接棒的是X*建华,---。香港人民的悲哀!
实话实说, 中国北京

各位如果想看一下什么叫假大空,请听一下董先生过去的谈话,何等无耻,无能,无良...
HKer, 新加坡

不知道,但肯定不是很好的事.
凉心,

董的辞职实际上并非本人情愿,也并非统治能力问题,完全是基于未来的权力分配的框架与体系的问题,即香港本身的行政首脑可以由中央通过压力予以废黜,这样即使未来行政首脑普选产生,大陆也有能力废黜不中意的领导人,从这件事上也说明,香港的政权服务的对象是北京政权,因为占香港主体的各阶层无论通过任何非暴力的手段都无法使侵犯香港民众利益的领导人下台,而北京仅仅不满意就可以使香港的首脑下野,导致香港实际实际上已经并入大陆的省级首脑的委任制的管理体系,对各种民主党派的政治限制与打压本质上是强化行政权力而弱化立法权,控制行政首脑的去留也就控制了香港,大陆也就可以根据自身利益需要决定香港的未来,至于香港民众的需求北京是不会完全考虑的,香港的转口港的地位基本上随中国的开发程度的加深而大大削弱,但是其英国统治遗留下的体系仍然维系香港的发展。
但是董的上任也存在一个尝试,即渐进式消除英国遗留的管理系统逐步向大陆授权委任管理体系靠拢,下一任只会继续这一过程,消灭民主人权,通过行政手段掠夺民间财富的游戏仅仅刚刚开始。如果未来香港后悔了骂娘,只能怪自己在政治运动上过于幼稚,没有用暴力手段维护权利。要知道实现普选没有暴力怎能获取,89年的六四已经告诉结果了,想以和平手段获得并维护权利完全是梦想,认为北京会全力维护并支持香港更是妄想,现实的复苏完全是公款消费在拉动,是无法持久的。
九章介石, 中国大陆

由武大郎开店到奸人当道!
未署名,

做得好,无人赞,何不放下重担,释放压力,潇洒走一回。
冯国梁, 美国

我认为董建华政府是在2003年7月1号倒台的。那个时候,有五十万到七十万人上街游行抗议。
HKer, UK

游戏结束了!
未署名, 北京

他这种官员,只要中央政府不再支持他了,他这特首的官运不是自然就到尽头了吗?--比京扮什么角色?这问题本身就很可笑。这从头到尾就是一出有中国特色的传统皮影戏。
沉默的声音, 中国



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