BBC BREAKFAST WITH FROST
INTERVIEW:
CHARLES KENNEDY MP
LIBERAL DEMOCRAT LEADER
JULY 2ND, 2000
Please note "BBC Breakfast with Frost" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used
DAVID FROST:
Now our next guest is one of the key movers and shakers at Westminster, but he's also someone who takes time to relax and enjoy himself and clearly believes that there is life worth living away from the world party politics, indeed it's rumoured that he spent last weekend at the Glastonbury Rock Festival enjoying the greatest hit show that David Bowie performed even though the Liberal Democrat Leader didn't get to meet his rock hero on that occasion. And I'm sure you're many people's hero too and you didn't get to meet him?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
I didn't get to meet him, I got very good tickets thanks to the organisers just at the side of the stage so I was from not quite as close as this to him but not far away. So one day, one day my prince will come.
DAVID FROST:
Exactly, your photos from Boots, now let's begin with the whole question of PR, it would seem that the proposal on the table from the government, everybody says, is that they've, Tony Blair would, would go with the alternative vote, you are allowed to say it's only a first step, he doesn't have to say there definitely will be a second step, if that is indeed the deal that you've discussed, or not discussed but it's on the table, is that acceptable?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Well first of all we haven't discussed it and secondly nothing's on the table, Labour have got an internal debate coming up next weekend, a policy forum where they'll make their minds up on an interim basis, then they come to a final decision in the conference in October this year. And I've taken the view that I shouldn't be providing a running commentary, our position is well known, they said at the last election we'll offer the people a referendum on changing the voting system, now unfortunately that's not happened. We want them to recommit themselves to that for a future Parliament if they're in a position after the next election to do anything about it, and at the moment we have an option sitting on the table, the Roy Jenkins' option which isn't what Labour are talking about. I'm anxious not to get boiled [sic] embroiled in¿
DAVID FROST:
or boiled¿
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Or boiled, in the minutiae of different systems because quite frankly people will just start changing channels. What I want to do is to get the principle established that the public, not the politicians, the public have a right to decide are we happy with the status quo or do we want something else.
DAVID FROST:
And in terms of the election, if you were Tony Blair when would you hold it?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Oh it's always a very difficult decision for a Prime Minister, I'm assuming that in all likelihood unless things go seriously amiss that he will probably go next May to coincide with the local elections, I think that's probably the working assumption but I guess he won't know himself at this stage, he'll probably begin to take a decision after the turn of the year.
DAVID FROST:
How often do you have one-on-one meetings with him, once a month, once a week, once a year?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
No certainly not once a week that's for sure, it probably averages out on a monthly basis there or there abouts, it tends to be demand-led, if there's something to talk about we have a meeting we talk about it, if there's not we don't need to, it's just a thoroughly pragmatic relaxed relationship.
DAVID FROST:
But you must have discussed AV in those meetings?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
No it's deliberately, I've deliberately got into the detail¿
DAVID FROST:
Not even with him?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
No I've taken quite clearly the view all along this is a Labour Party decision, it's not for the Lib Dems to be telling them how to run their party any more than it's for them to tell us how to run our party, let them make their minds up, they know our position.
DAVID FROST:
I don't know whether you discussed it but what did you think of his on-the-spot, cash-on-the-nail £100 fine idea?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Daft idea I thought, daft idea, it seems to me in practical terms how are the police actually going to operate that and I don't think, judging by what senior police officers have been saying over the weekend and what they'll probably tell them at Downing Street tomorrow, they're not enamoured of this idea of whether they're made judge and jury at one and the same time as well as being the police. So there is too many examples at the moment, this News of the World story about petrol prices is another one, where you're getting this almost John Major-like reaction on the hoof to pressure of events and not very thought through policy coming through. Imagine writing a big article about the damaging effect of high petrol prices which everybody recognises and not mentioning the environment that's part of the policy which was supposed to be the whole idea which all parties subscribe to for trying to tax carbon more, the big problem for the government on petrol is two-fold. First they've not put a package of helpful measures for rural areas, for example get rid of vehicle excise duty, put more money into public transport, that's not happening adequately. Secondly of course if this boycott goes ahead it's actually not the filling stations that are the culprits, it's the Treasury who are picking up so much of the tax and it's the oil companies themselves and those should be the targets not the person at the distribution end who's likely in fact, in cash flow terms, in many of these smaller, rural filling stations to suffer financially very badly indeed.
DAVID FROST:
What about the Nissan intervention this week, saying that¿
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Very significant¿
DAVID FROST:
Very dangerous¿investment in Britain because of the strength of the pound and not being in the Euro and so on and how should the government respond to that?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Well the government should have responded by having a referendum on the principle of the Euro much earlier in this Parliament and I think they would have won it. They let the argument go by default for over two years, the sceptics are rampaging all over the airwaves and the newspapers and no wonder public opinion is highly sceptical. Now I don't agree with what is said to be the Gordon Brown line that we can somehow keep all this quiet through the next election, we can't, it's a big issue for the country and it's a constitutional issue as well as a political and economic one. So what the government should do is really be unambiguous and go out and win round public opinion but we need the Chancellor and the Prime Minister to do it, it's no good the Liberal Democrats and the Foreign Secretary and the Trade Secretary and various others doing it, the two key lynchpins of the government have got to do it themselves.
DAVID FROST:
And why do you think they don't do that, is it in part, in part that there's such a strong phalanx of newspapers like the Sun and the Telegraph and the Mail is that, is that part of the reason?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
That is undoubtedly part of the reason but as you see in the run of many of these newspapers at the moment even by trying to placate them they're not in fact winning over friends in parts of the newspaper world. They were always likely, a lot of these newspapers, prove to be fairweather friends for the Labour Party, fine when John Major was unpopular, Tony Blair was sweeping all before him, once he got down to the nitty-gritty they were always going to turn so they're better to stick to their guns, stick to their gut instincts and make the positive case for Europe and for the Euro. Now if you do that, if you think of a referendum when eventually we have one you have the CBI, the TUC, Labour, the Liberal Democrats, a lot of other people lining up saying on balance in principle yes. On the other side you're going to have Margaret Thatcher, William Hague, Tony Benn, Norman Tebbit saying no. Now I think when people look at that kind of cast they'll have a better idea of where the centre of gravity lies.
DAVID FROST:
So your advice to Tony Blair is you must come off the fence and get tougher on this one?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Most certainly and if he doesn't then we're going to see more of the warning shots being fired by the Nissans of this world and of course had he been more or less, less ambiguous about the Euro earlier on we wouldn't have had quite the extent of difficulty in the manufacturing sector that we've seen with the strength of the pound.
DAVID FROST:
Thank you we'll take a break there to get Susanna Reid's latest thoughts morning.
[BREAK FOR NEWS]
DAVID FROST:
Charles it's said that the Prime Minister's backing Menzies Campbell to be the next Speaker of the House of Commons, are you in favour of that or can you not afford to lose him?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
Well we certainly wouldn't want to, to lose Menzies that's for sure, he's one of our big hitters and much respected well beyond the confines of the Liberal Democrats there's no doubt about that. I'm glad to say that of all the problems in my in tray the Speakership of the House of Commons is not one of them, I stay well away as a Party Leader from that, it's a Commons decision. Who knows who the candidates will be, there isn't even a vacancy yet, we should remember.
DAVID FROST:
But you'd be happy for Menzies?
CHARLES KENNEDY:
I'm not endorsing anybody because there could be more than one Liberal Democrat expression of interest and it would be invidious for me to start choosing amongst friends and colleagues.
DAVID FROST:
Well thank you very much for being here and to all of our guests thank you very much indeed for joining us, and thank you for joining us, top of the morning, good morning. Rory will be here next week too, bye bye.
END