Europe diary: Election confusion

In his diary this week, BBC Europe editor Mark Mardell reflects on the reasons for the close results of the Italian and German general elections and recommends moving the European Commission to Rome.

The diary is published every Thursday.

BAD NEWS

As I listen to Silvio Berlusconi denounce his opponents and challenge the election result, I think that it is a very good thing that a colleague from a rival organisation isn't alongside me on a roof overlooking the Vatican, where we've chosen to do some live broadcasts.

She had a nasty experience at the elections last year in Germany. Pleased with her coverage, she was surprised to get a call from her news desk. "What do you think you're playing at? What did you mean by that sort of thing?" What did they mean, did they not like the pictures, the interviews, the words? None of these. "If we send you on a story we expect you to come up with a clear result."

ALIEN IDEAS

With a blatant disregard for some news organisations' need for clarity, the Italian and German people have not obliged. I'm musing on the connection between this and the latest example of "bureaucracy tempered by riot", as we must call the French system of government.

Is it because none of the big parties will grasp the nettle of what to do about the challenge of a global economy, while not entirely scorning it either? It is telling that the Free Democrats in Germany and an even smaller party in Italy stand full square behind the sort of radical changes to labour law, bureaucracy and competition urged by so many economists. Of course they are small because they don't get the votes.

This means what should be a central debate in these countries is not central to political debate, which means in turn that those against such changes don't have to come up with more coherent alternatives. There's no getting round the fact that many of these radical ideas are deeply alien to the dominant cultures in France and Germany, and I think even more so in Italy. But I don't get a sense that either the Left or Christian Democracy has worked out its response to what some say is inevitable.

Britain of course decided its route in the 80s, making things much easier for any current government. On election day, we are deep in conversation with a taxi driver. "So your Mr Blair - big mate of Berlusconi's - he's a Conservative, then?" We put him right, and he collapses in giggles. "He's on the left? Go on, you're having me on!"

ROMAN HOLIDAY

I have a day off before the vote itself so indulge myself in a favourite pastime, wandering around a city with a guide book and getting deliberately lost. I spend about eight hours tramping to get to know Rome a bit better. It's an ideal place for this sort of thing: an interesting piazza or building around every corner. In some cities you just have to keep going or find a café, but nearly every square has a fountain with steps which you can lounge on.

This is rather more successful than my last daft attempt to take in the Eternal City, when a few years ago I had the bizarre notion of taking my three children around the sites in mid-August. Rebellion ensued in the coliseum and it took not bread and circuses but a heck of a lot of gelati to quell the proles. Not an experience I want to repeat.

While musing on what a lovely place this must be to live, I hit on the wheeze of suggesting moving the Commission to Rome: it does after all have long experience of running an empire. Italy doesn't seem to get much out of the EU in terms of institutions. Then the Council could always meet in Seville, and perhaps Prague could have the Parliament. Where would you move EU institutions? And you can say the middle of the Med...

POWER DRESSING

Travelling around Italy only confirms prejudices, good and bad. There is still a love of uniform, the opportunity to combine dressing up with exercising authority is apparently irresistible. Not only each different type of police force but each rank within it seems to have a different outfit. Traffic wardens look like characters from comic opera and customs officers like field marshals. Even the weathermen dress up in air force uniform, highly decorated with medals, presumably from campaigns against particularly nasty showers. My favourites are the dove grey police uniforms with a violet stripe down the trousers.

The bureaucracy can still be ludicrous. At Berlusconi's news conference we are required to send a fax from our office confirming the details of documents, passports and press passes, that we have in our hand. It can only be a delaying tactic. But security itself is non-existent.

SOUTHERN MANNERS

One of the locals we work with prides himself on being very secular, but seems to live by superstitions. He has the heeby-jeebies every time I pour a drink or shake hands. I am evidently doing something that is very bad luck. He tries unconvincingly to explain that such superstitions are so deeply ingrained it's a matter of good manners to observe them. For the first time in the South I come across rumble strips across the road to slow you down, not because of a school or hospital, but because of a holy site.

People, especially in the South, are unfailingly friendly and helpful. It is the easiest place I've worked to get people to talk and to invite you into their homes to film. When our hire car develops a boot that won't close, the owner of the shop we stop in front of spends an hour ferrying us around finding mechanics and bits of string. On the other hand, a youth we stopped to ask directions in the warren of streets outside Bari has the best line I've heard for ages: "Don't you think I have better things to do with my life than go around looking at the name of streets?"

Please send us your comments on issues raised in the diary, using the postform below.

Europe is the continent and the EU is the superfluous political/economic entity. As much as I would like it to be different, the so-called 'European' social model is destined to fail. We have too much government in Europe and too high taxes. I would like to remind people that in the 20th Century we had decided that we didn't like 'state-worship' ideologies, so why are many people now looking to the state to take care of them?
Marcel de Vries, The Hague, the Netherlands

If Europe lags so far behind the UK, why are record numbers of Brits decamping to mainland Europe? People may have more money for 'le shopping' as a result of Mrs Thatcher, but the quality of life in this country, at any rate in London, where I live, has plummeted. That said, French students want their bottoms smacked: the proposed reforms would have benefitted young people willing to go into a job and show what they could do.
Jacqueline, London UK

Every reason why the British are steadfast in their Euroscepticism can be found in the submissions thus far. I believe that Europe and Britain should part company forever - we would all be a lot happier. Europe cannot move on with its grand scheme with Britain on board - that is obvious and the British people are not about to change anytime soon. (Plus I miss the Franc, the Deutchmark, the Gelder etc, etc when I travel abroad instead of the homogenised, historyless and cultureless Euro Currency)
ian, whitwick

Britain is now an extremely polarized society in terms of income. We can't afford the NHS and basic education now, simply because the government has absolutely no way to compel our rich citizens to foot the bill. All the jargon about 'dynamism' and 'efficiency' is simply there to mask the fact that those who could pay for these things would prefer to keep their money and spend it on themselves, while still allowing them to drift peacefully off to sleep in the knowledge that their greed is actually a good, patriotic deed because it is 'efficient'. Yeah right!
Steve, Fife, Scotland

I was wondering how long it would take before some one made some condescending remark regarding the Italian military.

I was surprised at the stupidity of Mark Mandell who is supposed to be an intelligent man and a BBC reporter. If he had taken time to do some research he would have found the Men who give the weather forecast in Italy wear uniform because they are officers in the Italian air force (and as for the medals they would have a long way to go even by Italian standers to beat the British royal family for decorations when they dress as toy soldiers) and that Italy has the Carabinieri which are a Para military force and a city police force. The traffic wardens uniform is similar to the British bobby uniform except for the white helmets the only difference being that the Italian one is smart and tailors made while the English one is badly made in some sweat shop in China.
enzo Romano, london

Mr Mardell was quite entertaining with his perspective. He can't seem to reflect without finding a punch of humor somewhere. Love it. The responses, though, really bowled me over this time. I don't think I've seen a post session with so many different subjects and angles; and so heated; on a post I thought so casual? Silly American I am I suppose... but I do believe I'll be following more of Mardell's articles.
Jamie Heaney, Portsmouth, NH, USA

I am fed up of smug French people talking about their wonderful social model and deploring "anglo-saxon liberalism" and it's inequalities. In France the word "equality" is written on every public building but it's a sham. The Revolution in 1789 abolished aristocratic privileges, but now the new aristocrats are the unproductive state employess with a job for life and a tax-payer funded pension at a ridiculously early age.

The young people from imigrant backgrounds cannot get onto the ladder, but the spoilt middle class kids who forced Villepin to climb down will not tolerate anything that would open up the job market at the price of shaking up their comfortable, privileged existence. I have lived here for fifteen years now, and I can tell you that the housing estates around most larger cities are shocking examples of inequality and deprivation much worse than anything in the unashamedly capitalist UK. Most of the kids there would gladly take any job, secure or not. The demagogues of the left have no solutions to propose for them.
Mark Drew, Sens, France

I am an Italian/Aussie who worked in the UK for 12 years and now lives in Munich. I should remind people that the "failing" economy of Germany is also the worlds largest exporter. The "failed" economic systems of Italy, France Germany have had spectacular growth in recovering from WWII. The real quality of life (rather than mis-leading macro-economic statistics) in much of Europe is higher than the UK. Unfortunately, UK politics has swallowed the North American laissez-faire approach hook, line and sinker.
Mark Casali, Muenchen

Stagnant growth in European economies does not need a brutal Thatcherite solution. Countries with high taxation and high public spending do not necessarily do badly economically - for example, Denmark's economy has been doing exceptionally well recently, despite or perhaps because of a high level of taxation. Instead of viciously attacking social spending, these Scandinavian countries invest heavily in their people and infrastructure, and their economic growth is sustainable, not fuelled by low wages and property inflation. Clearly, where unions are undemocratic and wield disproportionate power,where labour markets are absurdly over-regulated and where protectionism is shielding inefficieincy and economic soft-spots there needs to be reform, but this can be gradual and need not undermine Social Europe at all. The answer is sensible pragmatism, not the dogma of the Right or the unreconstructed Left.
George Owers, Chelmsford, UK

I must say that I have discovered while traveling in England that the Brits also love uniforms. The current one of choice for males seems to be a dirty t-shirt, a pair of baggy and droopy jeans, some kind of overly expensive Nike track shoes, all enhanced by a beer belly floating like the rings of Saturn around their middles. For girls, expecially pregnant ones, to show a bare midriff and to have pants so low that unmentionable parts can be discerned is the typical style. At least in Italy the men who wear uniforms and the women who are usually smartly turned out and clean seem to have physiques to justify their clothing.
D Blagg, Umbria, Italy

It's obvious that economic reforms are needed. But instead of dealing with that on a national scale, it would be far more accurate (globally) to do so on a european scale. Let's use the European Union for what it was created in the first place: economical benefit.
Bas, Bruges, Belgium

As for the EU institutions, how come we never here the British government lobbying to have more institutions based here? Surely it could bring prestige, employment and money to a few British towns and cities if they had an EU office based there. Perhaps it is our appalling record in linguistics that prevents the EU from establishing offices here.
Graybo, East Sussex, UK

The truth of the matter is that the very high turn out (much higher than ever reported for the UK) shows that very many people are striving to participate in the future of the nation and the victory of the left, albeit it not accepted by the rancorous previous government and leaders, hopefully will help put Italy and Italians back on the rails.
moira, rome, italy

I think there will be another election with a year as Prodi's efforts to work with his wafer thin majority will be futile. This will do ever more harm to Italy's stagnant economy. On the other hand I think that the best solution for Europe would be to try to take the best of the Anglo-Saxon model and the best of continetal Europe's system and try to merge them together although I am not sure if such a thing is even possible...
Ruben Cassar, Senglea, Malta

Italians have always enjoyed a very high standard of living despite bad politics, no wonder many brits want to live in Italy. I've lived for many years in the UK and found it not better than any other country in Europe. London is too expensive, dirty, public trasport is inadequate and worse than any other european city and there's much poverty and social problems and this is present in many parts of England, clearly a tale of two cities. Italy unlike England still is an innovative country where manufacturing is one of the best in the world especially in the technological sectors like automotive and electrical and mechanical machinery, think of Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini etc.
Robert, Europe

It's a real quandry: on the one hand we have the UK. Dynamic economics combined with the most unclean, crime-riddled, booze-ridden society in Western Europe. Greed rules, no-one looks out for anyone else and blow you if you dont have a well paid job and private health care. But on the other hand we have the total and abject failure of continental Europe to adopt any serious econmoic change. High and growing unemploymenyt. Lazy and incompetent bureaucracy at every level of society. Each has something to learn from the other. Surely the best option lies in combining Europes social model with the UK's econmic drive? It must be possible to achieve this. Mustn't it?!??
Geoff Bunn, PARIS, FRANCE

While some get millions of pounds a year whilst others scrape by on minimum wage ... I'll be out on the streets every time. It's not the poorest that are selfish and greedy.
Sue, Paris, France

The point of having a democracy is that a society can have a government of their choice. Some European countries such as Spain have chosen to do so and successfully reformed, but others have exercised their choice not to. As the Italians still have a good quality of life, they are entitled to make that choice. However, that does not seem to be what they have voted for and rather than reform being "alien" to Italian culture, both coalitions have promised reform. The trouble is more to do with their reliance on small, almost single-issue parties each trying to extract promises in return for support. In the UK, we didnt have any choice but reform in the 80's as our economy was in such a bad state.
Mark Trevethan, London, UK

I've traveled far and wide in Europe and the UK. There are many places in the UK in dire poverty, paint peeling off the houses, litter in the streets, jobless, future-less kids staring blankly at rare outsiders, race riots a recent memory. It's amazing how many Brits criticise Europe without acknowledging their own failings.
Paul, Rome, Italy

Thank God Maggie took us through the reforms or we would be in the mire like the Europeans, I dont envy what they have to go through but its either bite the bullet or go into a long slow terminal decline whilst the Indians and Chinese take your jobs.
Chris Milburn, Tonbridge, England

Europe will wait for even worse economic news before implementing a few, obvious reforms required to generate a real economy. So far Europeans can react, but they cannot act. The red-green coalitions of the past have been replaced by brown-green coalitions. Anti-immigrant parties do well even as Europeans commit demographic suicide and refuse to reproduce. They want cheap immigrant labor without the demographic consequences. They want a job for life that is a chimera, a state pension from bankrupt states. The French set the streets alight when there are no jobs, and set them alight again when their government attempts reforms to give them jobs. As the kids say, "whatever."
Rod, Woodstock, Oxfordshire, UK

It's not surprising there is no consensus of political philosophy in Europe anymore. But to my mind it boils down to politicians who refuse to take clear stands on topical issues for fear of loosing elections. You want to taste hospitality come over to Nigeria......hospitable friendly and never a dull moment.
Ja'afaru Adamu , Lagos/Nigeria

There were parliamentary elections in Hungary on Sunday as well, and we have to face similar problems, like France, Italy, and Germany in connection with international competitiveness, and there are the same political syndrome: the Hungarian socialists have taken a very narrow lead int he first round. The Socialists (MSZP) won 43.2% of Sunday's vote, while the centre-right Fidesz (Hungarian Civic Union) party won 42%, while only the small parties (the liberal Free Democrats with 6,5%, and the conservative Democratic Forum with 5.04%) were brave enough to talk about the economic problems.
Andras, Budapest

We watch and despair as goverments of left and right give up desperately needed reforms in the face of "manifestations". One reason is that a large part of the population does not pay taxes. Another is that many that do do not know that l'Etat does not have its own money but must get it through tax or National Debt (tomorrow's taxes) - papers always report that this or that demonstration's success "will cost the State billions of euros" where, in UK it would be reported as "costing the tax payer billions of pounds". And the French are schizophrenic - proud to be part of the hallowed République and hating the State so that hitting its pocket is a personal victory!
Peter Kirwan, Monypeyroux 34150 France

Thatcher did a lot of bad but clearly put us way ahead now. I don't envy what most of Europe still has to go through. I hope it doesn't drag us down.
derek smith, leeds

I don't think that the English have any right to be smug regarding the rest of Europe The only think that Margaret Thatcher did way to kill off all but a few manufacturing companies and turn this once proud nation into a country of super market shell fillers While the Chinese finish off any manufacturing that is left and the Indians all the IT
vincent cosentino, England

It's a pity that your otherwise usually adequate coverage of European affairs should be stained by the smugness of some of your off hand comments... Italian weathermen are not "dressed up" in military uniforms, they are military officers. And traffic police and Carabinieri wear uniforms that are distictly less comical than London Bobbies, not to speak of Beef eaters or those funny horse mounted characters who wear grotesquely oversized black fur hats in the middle of the Summer... they are so funny people take pictures of them!
Marco, Rome, Italy

Quite right Marco from Rome, I agree with your comments.
caterina , London

I would point out that weathermen is really from air force and he is specialized in meteorology.
davide, uk

Have any of you Maggie worshippers considered that some Europeans may NOT consider the UK's brand of business-friendly capitalism to be the best way forward? Maybe they don't actually want the long working hours, relatively short, unhealthy lives, and social breakdown (record prison populations, teenage pregnancies, etc) that the UK's citizens "enjoy". Perhaps the lack of clear election results simply reflects a desire to maintain economic competitiveness WITHOUT destroying the social fabric which contributes so much to the wellbeing of a nation.
David, Cologne, Germany

The protesters may be a little bit ignorant but sure not stupid but their children and grand-children will not be grateful for their selfishness.
Artur Freitas, Johannesburg, South Africa

You ask "where would you move the EU institutions?" I have an idea - Antarctica. They clearly serve no purpose to the average guy on the street so why not send them to the other side of the world where they cannot interfere with our lives.
Disgruntled Eurosceptic, England

The European social model of welfare, protectionism, and profit-sharing offers a far better future than the cut-throat, race-to-the-bottom competition which Mr Mardell and his neoliberal friends so smugly urge upon us. The BBC, like the rest of the mainstream media, seldom offers any alternative viewpoint - yet 50% of the people still won't vote for it, thank God.
Dawn, Bangkok, Thailand

Mr. Silvio Berlusconi, very cleverly, made sure the election laws were changed from the straight majority law that had given him his right to rule the country without interference, to a proportional one (which, by the way a massive majority of Italian citizens had voted to abolish in a referendum held 10 years ago that had the biggest turnout in recorded history - 90+%); clearly expecting to lose this time round and making sure his successor's job would be as difficult as possible. When he could have used his significant majority to put to rights some basic things that are holding the country back, like its pension system for example, which it can no longer afford and which in a rapidly aging society is being mainly paid for by the younger generation of workers (many of whom are unemployed or working in low-paid temporary jobs) he wasted it.
Jean Hatton, Pavia, Italy

I've read the Disgruntled Eurosceptic's post and, again, I'm bored and disgusted of listening to all those Little Englanders who joifully play to despise the EU and the rest of the Europeans. With all my respect, I must say that their position is full of hipocrisy. They think that we don't deserve to be in the same room with them, but we must accept, every year, thousands of British retired grandpas and grandmas, taking care for them with the sanitary services, our social security, that we pay with our own taxes. We're delighted to receive them, they and their families are contributing to our local economies at least in the same proportion the EU funds do. But I don't understand why we have stand that kind of permanent criticism from persons who obviously don't know us and don't have the intention of doing it any time. Europe is much more than the EU institutions, there's a real Europe that you had better know and respect it, like we all respect the British citizens who freely have chosen to live with us.
Emilio Fernández, Albacete (Spain)

Mark Mardell worries that the parties that are full square behind the "radical changes...urged by many economists" don't get the votes, so their opponents don't need to come up with coherent alterntives. This is bizarre inversion. Surely, if the economic models dreamed up by academics are so removed from social and political reality that they fail to garner any support, it is the fault of the model not of the reality? And it is up to the propenents of the change to come up with a coherent policy that would be able to gather popular support
Anuj Dawar, Cambridge, UK

David from Cologne has my full support. I am still wondering how many Brits discuss European issues without really knowing other countries and their attitude. Isn´t it about time some Brits noticing their UK is NOT the solution for everything ? NHS, trains, working long hours (meaning not well organised) , no thanks Brits keep it !
Udo Seiwert-Fauti, Edinburgh Scotland

Everyone is griping about the pressures of globalization and their governments inability to deal with it (really their societies inability). With these pressures we are negotiating the worldwide harmonization of labor laws, human rights, economies, quality of life, invasive species, diseases, and everything else. Whether we want it or not, whether we are ready for it or not, we are finally becoming one world. God help us.
Craig, Silly-con Valley, US

Anyone who thinks the UK's economic model is a way forward is crazy, I work in childrens mental health and the UK has the worst Children's mental health statistics in Europe., it also puts more people in prison than anywhere else in Europe and has the largest gap between rich and poor.. London has one of the worst child poverty rates in Europe.. the economy may be good but look what we've sacraficed in the process.. work and economic success are not the be all and end all of life.. hopefully Europe will find a better way than the we did..
Ian, London

Really, so much disagreement. Europe tends to be anti change, the ECJ seems to be the only European body with any vision, and that's mainly economic support of the free market, about the one thing which would make Europe dynamic. Even so certain countries flout these rules to the detriment of the whole of europe. Harping on about social models being desirable is all well and good, the reality is that change is essential. Britain has just the same sort of structural problems with the NHS, unwieldly, bureaucatrtic, wasteful but worst of all it doesnt provide a good service. Europe & the UK need to fundamentally reasses what we are working towards, and why. The problem is the answers that question raises.
James, London, UK

The picture painted is the mixed economy can't survive in this globalised world market so we must adopt the neo-liberal free market model; The 'Left' present no alternative. But there is an alternative Another World is Possible as many thousands have been arguing outside of todays political institutions. Hopefully, Mr. Mardell will be making his way to Athens at the beginning of May for the European Social Forum for some answers.
Sean Dixon, Dartford, England

I am amazed that there are people in the UK that think that Europe lags 20 years behind the UK and that Europe have yet to bite-the-bullet of Thatcher-type reforms. I have news for you. Most European countries implemented the reforms quietly without a union induced near-civil-war. France is the exception. Most European countries have a stable, vital and growing economy with working health and education systems. If you look beyond the Blair propaganda the facts show that this cannot be said of the UK. The center of the economic world is rapidly moving from the US to Europe thanks to measures which present Europe as a single entity. The UK will soon become 'just another island' on the edge of a major world economic power.
Brian, Spain, Canary Islands

I do not see why many people are attacking Italy's political/economic system even though they have never experienced la dolce vita. Italians do not feel the need to take up arms in order to have progress and leadership in the world. They enjoy a very high quality of life that is in large part thanks to the many cultural ideals they pursue. By strongly supporting reforms they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Italians are not willing to give up their tight-knit millenias old communities for gold. They would much rather enjoy everyday life instead of the hectic unhealthy lifestyle that countries like the US and UK endorse.
Radek Janowski, New York, New York

Interesting that so many people seem to equate the UK with London. I have no links with London whatsoever and don't consider myself British, so have nothing but positive feelings about my own country (Wales). Other European countries have many positives, especially the Scandinavian ones in my opinion, but nothing compares to home.
Ian Thomas, Miskin, Wales

Consider yourselves fortunate to have a class consciousness and an understanding of the labor/capital debate. Americans by and large place a quasi-religious faith in unfettered capitalism, while failing to perceive, here in the USA, the ever-increasing gap between rich and poor, the destruction of the middle class, lessening opportunities for upward mobility, increasingly unavailable basic services (most significantly, healthcare). We are distracted by religious issues and militaristic adventures, bread and circuses, and are retreating ever more into an uninformned nationalistic cocoon while the consciousness of the rest of the world is expanding.
Fred, Chicago, USA

Europe is not going left or right, it is going down. It has yet to hold the real debates about coming to grips with the unsustainability of its present course and finding another one that is viable. It stubbornly refuses to take its head out of the sand. But the clock is ticking and ultimately when the alarm goes off, all hell will break loose. France was just a first taste of things to come over much of the continent. The next downturn in the American economy could be the signal for big trouble in Europe.
Mark, USA

Brian from Spain who thinks the world economy is shifting from the U.S. to Europe is completely wrong. The U.S. has a growing economy, low taxes, and actual population growth. It's economy is innovative and government is small. Europe, including Britain is over-taxed, full of too much bureaucracy, and governments unwilling to do all that is necessary to fix the economy. Any wonder that U.S. has created about 40 million jobs since 1970 and Europe has created in the same time frame less than ten million? The problem Europe faces is that you need more innovative immigrants, small government, lower-taxes, and a population that is willing to reproduce. Remember, the UK has very high taxes when compared to the U.S. and plenty of other problems too. Social problems persist in Europe because Europeans have turned away from the Church towards marxist atheism, surely not a good thing for children and families.
Kurt Rocha, Guelph, Canada

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