An inquest jury has heard how a car which struck and killed four cycling club members may have been travelling at between 60 and 70mph.
Pictured clockwise: Thomas Harland, Wayne Wilkes, Maurice Broadbent and Dave Horrocks
Fellow cycling club member Emyr Wyn Morris told the inquest at Abergele the car was also out of control.
Thomas Harland, 14, Maurice Broadbent, 61, Dave Horrocks, 55, and Wayne Wilkes, 42, were killed when the car skidded on ice near Abergele, Conwy.
The driver was later fined and given six points for having defective tyres.
Magistrates in Llandudno decided in August 2006 the defective tyres on Robert Harris's car had not been a factor in the collision, which happened on a road which had not been gritted that morning.
The four cyclists, who were members of the Rhyl Cycling Club, had been on the A547 not far from the start of a 60 mile (97km) Sunday club ride to Llandudno's Great Orme on 8 January, 2006.
Mr Morris, who had been on his first training ride with the club heard the impact as the car hit a group of cyclists in front of him.
He told the inquest how he flung himself to the right to avoid being hit.
In a statement taken 12 days after the crash, he described how he then stood up and saw "the carnage all around me".
Giving evidence at the inquest in Abergele town hall, Mr Morris recalled how heard Tom Harland's father Jonathan saying: "No, no not my son".
The cyclists were on a 60-mile trip between Great Orme and Llanrwst
Mr Harland who suffered a broken leg in the accident was hobbling around at that point, he said.
Mr Morris then described how he had checked a second body lying in the road - that of Maurice Broadbent.
The bodies of Dave Horrocks and Wayne Wilkes had been thrown over a wall into a field. Both men were already dead.
Motorist Robert Scott Cotton who had been travelling behind the cyclists also recalled seeing the car approaching out of control from the Abergele direction - he estimated it was travelling at 50mph.
After the collision with the cyclists, motorist Robert Harris, 47, from Abergele, was fined £180 with £35 costs and given six points on his licence after admitting having defective tyres.
The inquest, expected to last about a month, is continuing.