Government defeat on committees

The idea is to hold more committee meetings outside London

The government has suffered a defeat in the Commons over part of its plan for MPs to hold debates across England.

Tory and Lib Dem MPs attacked the plans for so-called Regional Grand Committees to meet in September and October.

They were annoyed there had been no debate on the timings and location of the sessions.

A proposed session in Nottingham on 9 September was rejected by 104 votes to 98. Seven other regional meetings were approved but voting was close.

The first vote, for a meeting of South West MPs in Exeter on 3 September was passed by just nine votes, while a committee held in Reading of South East MPs went through by just seven votes.

'No debate'

The Nottingham meeting would have involved East Midlands MPs discussing the economy.

But the government's plans - which have already been criticised by opposition parties for being too costly - came under fire in the Commons when a series of dates and locations were listed - but there was no opportunity to debate them.

Tory chief whip Patrick McLoughlin questioned the timing, adding: "Indeed, some of these regional grand committees are taking place when both the Liberal Democrat party conference is and the Conservative party conference, yet none are taking place when the Labour Party conference is taking place."

It now appears after the recent defeat of the government that this policy is in complete disarray Alan Duncan Conservatives

He was told there was "no possibility of discussion and debate, merely a vote" as the items were on the Commons order paper.

Conservative Yorkshire MP Greg Knight was annoyed a meeting of the Yorkshire and Humber committee was scheduled for Barnsley when he said it should be in Bridlington.

And for the Lib Dems, David Heath said MPs had been "given no notice of these motions beyond the fact that they were on the order paper today" - he was told no amendments could be added.

The government narrowly won the first vote, for a South West committee, by nine votes.

But it then lost the Nottingham vote by six votes. The following five votes were narrowly won by majorities of seven, eight, 15, 19, 21 and finally 25 votes.

Among those opposing the proposal was Alan Duncan, Shadow Commons leader and MP for Rutland.

He called for a statement from Commons leader Harriet Harman and urged her to withdraw the motions and go "back to the drawing board".

"It now appears after the recent defeat of the government that this policy is in complete disarray," he said.

A spokesman for Ms Harman said Labour MPs had not been instructed to vote for the government's policy.

He said: "These are matters for the House to reach a decision on. The leader is disappointed at the outcome. She feels that the grand committees could have engaged in valuable work in September."

The committees were set up last year in an effort to improve accountability and as a forum for ministers with responsibility for economic development in the English regions to outline their strategies.

But some MPs opposed the idea, saying it was too costly and would further increase government patronage.