UDA leaders enter weapons talks

By Vincent Kearney BBC NI home affairs correspondent

UDA is in talks with the government over guns

The political history of the past few years has shown that deadlines rarely work.

Many have been set by the government, with declarations by prime ministers and secretaries of state that they were set in stone.

Then, almost inevitably, they have been extended, with the government insisting that progress had been made and that it had not been forced to climb down.

Now another deadline has been set.

The UDA and UVF have both been put on notice that they have six months to convince the government that they are serious about decommissioning their weapons.

If they do not, the secretary of state, Shaun Woodward, will not renew the legislation that allows the international decommissioning body headed by General John de Chastelain to operate.

The loyalist groups have been told that they would then be treated simply as criminal gangs, and not as paramilitary organisations.

As it stands, weapons that are decommissioned are not forensically tested for evidence that could be used to prosecute those who used them.

If the government carries out its threat to decommission the general and his team, any weapons found after that date would be tested and the results could be used in future court cases.

That message has been delivered publicly a number of times by Shaun Woodward in recent weeks, and was reinforced during secret talks between the government and the UDA leadership at Stormont on Monday night.

When asked about the meeting, the NIO chose its words very carefully, stating that the minister had private talks with the political representatives of the UDA and "other leading loyalists".

But the fact is that the security minister Paul Goggins and Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde sat down with the leadership of the UDA.

We don't care what politicians say, if they want to know how our supporters feel about this they should into working class loyalist areas and ask them Senior loyalist

The majority of the UDA's ruling inner council were there.

General de Chastelain and his two fellow commission members, Tauno Nieminen and Andrew Sens, started work in September 1997.

The commission has cost almost £9m, shared by the British and Irish governments.

That was considered money well spent when the IRA decommissioned its vast arsenal of weapons three years ago, but since then, the commission has had little to show for its efforts.

The UVF last year said its weapons had been "put beyond reach", meaning the organisation has retained control of the weapons and it shows no signs of giving them up.

The same is true of the UDA. Jackie McDonald, the man regarded as the organisation's leader, last year said decommissioning "wasn't even on the radar screen".

Now we're told that the organisation is now discussing the issue.

It has met the commission a number of times, with the most recent encounter earlier this month and there are plans for further talks.

The government hopes that signals a change and that the UDA will soon act on decommissioning rather than simply talk about it.

It is taking a huge gamble by publicly signalling a commitment to decommission the international commission if that does not happen.

It will be very difficult for the government to fudge the issue if the UDA doesn't, at the very least, give a firm commitment to decommission weapons, and agree the modalities for doing so.

Anything less than that will be viewed as failure.

And what must Margaret Ritchie, the social development minister, make of it all?

Many within the Northern Ireland Office were unhappy when she withdrew funding for a UDA-linked project in loyalist areas earlier this year because the UDA had failed to meet her deadline for decommissioning.

Publicly, NIO ministers did not criticise her. But privately, many civil servants and policy advisors criticised her and said the imposition of a deadline wouldn't work.

Now the government itself is setting a deadline for progress.

The UDA is hinting that some progress can be made, but it is far from straightforward.

The organisation says the majority of its members and supporters are opposed to any move on weapons and will have to be "persuaded" that it is the right thing to do.

General de Chastelain is head of the arms body

"We don't care what politicians say, if they want to know how our supporters feel about this they should into working class loyalist areas and ask them," says one senior UDA member.

"I can tell you that they are absolutely opposed to decommissioning weapons and it will take a lot to convince them that we should."

The government says that is simply an excuse.

The UDA believes the process of persuasion should include investment in its heartlands, and some form of role for the organisation.

Having spent longer than 30 years involved in terrorism and crime, it now craves approval and acceptance by government, politicians and even the business community.

It wants to be "brought in from the cold".

That is something the government may not be able to deliver, and if it does not, it is highly unlikely that the UDA will give up its guns.

General de Chastelain may yet have his term of employment extended, just like the latest deadline.