Can England have a 'friendly' with Germany?

By Chris Mason
BBC News, Berlin

It may be a friendly but winning remains the aim for the England boss

Read many of the newspapers and England's match against Germany in Berlin is nothing but a pointless kick-about.

There is nothing at stake, the argument goes, and many of the biggest names - Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney and Steven Gerrard among others - are not here.

But do not try convincing the 8,000 England fans who have made the journey to the imposing Olympic Stadium that the game is meaningless.

And neither try saying it to the England manager Fabio Capello - or his captain John Terry.

"Playing for your country is the ultimate," Terry said. "And no, I don't think it can be a friendly when we're playing Germany."

The fans agree. A short walk from the neoclassical Brandenburg Gate - one of the tourist hotspots of the German capital - fans are having a drink in the Cancun Cafe Bar.

Stuart Thompson, 48, a Sunderland fan from Ripon in North Yorkshire, says: "I struggle to think you can possibly have a friendly with the Germans. There's history, there's passion - and no matter what, England want to win."

Is he confident ahead of the match? His one word answer has this corner of the bar laughing out loud. "No," he says.

You do not have to look far here among the England faithful to find a grudging respect for the German side.

Injured stars

The other major talking point for the fans - and the press pack - is the priorities of England's players.

Is pulling on the national shirt less important to them than playing for their clubs?

Fabio Capello faced question after question from reporters over whether he thought club managers were declaring players unfit for this game - just to ensure they would be fit enough to play in the Premier League in a few days time.

All quiet ahead of the most intense of friendly rivalries

Take the Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard. His club said, after a medical, that he wasn't fit to join the England squad. Fabio Capello wanted to make sure.

And so Gerrard had to travel from Merseyside to London for another medical - which came to the same conclusion.

"What's wrong with that? Let's have look at him, let's make sure he's unfit. This is England for goodness sake. Steven Gerrard is getting paid a lot of money to play football. A 200-mile car journey in the back of a Mercedes for a medical? Big deal!" Stuart Thompson adds, dismissing the whole row as a triviality.

But stood next to him is an England fan who also happens to support Liverpool - and passionately disagrees.

For 15 minutes he and Stuart been having what can only be described as an amicable stand up row - or as amicable as a stand up row can be.

"This is ridiculous," Mark Allen, 42, shouts, waving his pint glass around with such ferocity it's surprising there is any beer left in it.

"It is double jeopardy - and suggests Capello simply doesn't believe Liverpool. I am fuming.

"That's a 400 mile return journey Gerrard had to do when he could have been getting himself fit to play against Fulham on Saturday. I am here and I love England. But I love Liverpool more."

Let's have a good rivalry with them on the pitch, but let's have a good night out with them now David Howe

For Fabio Capello, the intensity of this row - and of England's rivalry with Germany - is something new. He attempts to play down the former, but acknowledges the scale of the latter. And he remains optimistic.

"We are one of the best teams in the world," he says. "But so are Germany. Sure, this is a friendly, but I want to win every match."

Meanwhile, the fans' passion for England is undimmed.

But what is noticeable, many say, is the fall in the number who want to wander into bars here and sing songs about the Second World War. And those that do are all too often shunned.

"It happened in a bar we were in down the road. But we just left, we don't want that. Let's have a good rivalry with them on the pitch, but let's have a good night out with them now," David Howe, 40, from Middlesbrough says.

"I have been to Germany twice - once during the World Cup in 2006 and again now. I am extremely impressed by what I've see here. It is brilliant for building bridges and seeing how the country is.

"Everyone has their preconceptions before they come here, but the actual country is fantastic. And hopefully the game will be too."