BBC NEWS Americas Africa Europe Middle East South Asia Asia Pacific
BBCi NEWS   SPORT   WEATHER   WORLD SERVICE   A-Z INDEX     

BBC News World Edition
 You are in: Talking Point: Forum: Your Politics  
News Front Page
Africa
Americas
Asia-Pacific
Europe
Middle East
South Asia
UK
Business
Entertainment
Science/Nature
Technology
Health
-------------
Talking Point
Forum
-------------
Country Profiles
In Depth
-------------
Programmes
-------------
BBC Sport
BBC Weather
SERVICES
-------------
EDITIONS
Wednesday, 16 April, 2003, 16:29 GMT 17:29 UK
Your Politics: Lapdancing
Sandra White MSP
"It's not a fair way to treat women, to make them take their clothes off for money and have men ogling at them. It's demeaning and I'm determined to stamp it out".
Sandra White MSP Glasgow

It's a boom industry. Like it or not there seems to be a table dancing club springing up on every High Street -- and there are plenty of people who don't like it.

So is it all harmless fun or the unscrupulous exploitation of women?

Table dancing - or lap dancing as it's more commonly known in the United States - involves naked or topless dancers performing for male customers.

Strict rules prevent any physical contact with the dancers and the industry claims to be respectable, mainstream entertainment.

But across the country, more and more people are taking action.

Dancing
There are very few restrictions on clubs providing adult entertainment
They say the clubs encourage prostitution and make the streets unsafe for women.

And they claim women working within them are terribly exploited - a charge the industry and many of the dancers strenuously deny.

So far the campaigns have been largely unsuccessful.

That's because as the law stands, there are few restrictions on anyone wanting to open such a club - they're licensed in the same way as music venues and nightclubs.

So a local authority has little power to restrict table dancing, even if it thinks it's unsuitable for an area.

But in Scotland one MSP is trying to change the law so that table dancing clubs are licensed in the same category as sex shops.

"I'm very determined to get this through," says Sandra White MSP.

"The Scottish parliament was set up to serve the people of Scotland. And people are coming to us and saying they don't want these clubs."

While the changes would only affect Scotland, campaigners south of the border are anxiously awaiting the outcome.

The industry says Sandra White has got it wrong.

Douglas Moffat is general manager of Glasgow's Truffle Club. "Where's the evidence that we are causing a problem?" he asks.

"Every major European city has this kind of entertainment. Are we to be deemed the prudes of Europe because of this censorship by the back door?"

"Why should anyone stop me?" asks Missy
And dancers at the club agree. "I definitely don't feel exploited" says 21-year-old Missy, taking a break from performing topless for a group of businessmen.

"It's entirely up to the individual what they want to do. I want to dance and why should anyone stop me?"

But whatever dancers like Missy think, the table dancing industry is under increasing pressure.

There have been pickets of clubs in Sheffield and Newcastle, and there are ongoing campaigns in Plymouth, Halifax and Tunbridge Wells.

The Spearmint Rhino club on London's Tottenham Court Road is currently fighting police attempts to revoke its licence amid allegations that prostitution took place on the premises.

Local campaigners there have vowed to keep up the pressure, staging a demonstration outside the club to mark International Women's Day this Saturday.


Click here to watch the Your Politics report


What you can do:

http://www.campaignwomen.co.uk is a coalition of groups organising campaigns against table dancing clubs

Sandra White MSP can be reached through the Scottish Parliament. Or you can e-mail her at:
Sandra.White.msp@scottish.parliament.uk


Are you concerned about lapdancing clubs in your area? Should there be stricter licensing, or do you think the clubs are fine as they are? Send us your comments and we will publish a selection on the website.

Have your say

The only people being 'exploited' are the customers that go into the clubs with their credit cards & cash. Nobody forces the girls to work & at the end of the day it's an easy way for them to make good money in a safe way. Good luck to them girls.
David Jones, England

These types of seedy places I am sure are the root to a lot of the abuse and domestic violence which goes on. I would feel sick to my stomach if I ever thought my husband even thought of going to one of those places. They are degrading to women. Women are portrayed more and more as objects for men. Everywhere you look, be it a magazine a poster etc, there are always half naked women on them. This has to stop. What would men think if it was the other way around!! Naked men pole dancing, naked men on bill boards in the high street. Naked men on page 3...
Jackie, UK

I have campaigned against two local lap-dancing venues in Derby

James Ross, Derbyshire, UK
I have campaigned against two local lap-dancing venues in Derby, one was successfully defeated but another was sadly created despite it being only several metres away from a toy shop. I think we need much clearer planning legislation whereby residents can object and not have their complaints about the nature of these venues overruled because they are not specific "planning objections". Our moral arguments against these places fall on deaf ears when we speak out.
James Ross, Derbyshire, UK

There should be more relaxed licensing and legalised prostitution. I can make my own decisions regarding whether or not these clubs are a good or bad thing., but I don't need a priest to make the decision for me.
Ben Patient, UK

Society is gradually being drawn down the dark alleyway of permissiveness, licentiousness and immorality at the expense of upholding the right to dignity, respect and decent behaviour. If such clubs already determine that they are offering a desirable and worthy service, why do they need to further intrude on the 'entertainment' scene with increased prominence? Are we prudes? No, we are simply defending decent people from the shallowness and obsessive voyeurism that these clubs generate and the sultry undertones that will increasingly permeate through society. The choice is there for those who want to frequent such clubs, why allow them to further scar the social landscape and demean an already brutalised female population?
Mike Rippengal, UK

These clubs operate under strict rules

Chris Proctor, England
I cannot agree with the protesters position. Either it is in itself highly sexist, in that it portrays any man that finds women attractive as dangerous, predatory and exploitative. Or that sex or nudity is in itself somehow bad, which is at best Victorian prudery or at worst social or religious repression.

These clubs operate under strict rules which makes quite clear to the customers that the dancers are not "available". The dancers control what goes on, they are well paid and are always free to find alternative employment so it is difficult to support any accusation of exploitation. Lastly one should remember that the industry employs workers of both sexes - male strip acts have been widely available and popular for years without attracting this kind of fuss.
Chris Proctor, England

If you find Lap dancing offensive, then dont go and watch it, the same can be said for many issues, such as hunting and other controversial issues. Its always the way that a small group of people take it upon themselves to decide how the rest of us should live our lives!
Will, England

The double standards are astonishing - I have yet to see a campaign to prevent the demeaning and unscrupulous exploitation of the Chippendales. While women are able to cope with the sight of naked men, five minutes in a table dancing club will, apparently, turn a rational man into a danger to women. The greatest problem with the campaigners' arguments is that no-one is coerced or forced into table dancing. The dancers choose their job, just as they might choose any other occupation.
Michael King, England

Lap Dancing Clubs serve to reinforce misogyny and sexist beliefs

Jennifer Drew, England
Lapdancing exploits all women. Douglas Moffat General Manager of Glasgow's Truffle Club claims that if Lap Dancing were banned the UK would be regarded as "prudes of Europe." It is not a case of whether or not the UK would be considered prudes, it is the fact women are being exploited by cynical businessmen, who use women's bodies and sexuality for male gratification. Women working in these Lap Dancing Clubs are seen by the customers as nothing more than human flesh who can be exploited and degraded by male customers. As for saying Lap Dancing provides "adult entertainment" this a misnomer - it is entertainment for males primarily. The reality is men who go to Lap Dancing Clubs obviously believe all women are divided into whores and good women. Women who are Lap Dancers are "bad" and as such deserve to be treated with contempt. Additionally, it reinforces many men's beliefs women are not really human beings but simply sexual objects for male pleasure. I do not blame the women who work as Lap Dancers, many are forced to because of socio-economic circumstances. Lap Dancing Clubs serve to reinforce misogyny and sexist beliefs concerning all women, regardless of sexual orientation, class or ethnicity.
Jennifer Drew, England

I believe that while we should not try to stop the existence of lap dancing clubs altogether (they will exist as long as there is a demand for them), the proliferation of these clubs across our cities in recent years is a reflection both on the changing attitudes in society and the lack of control placed upon these venues by local government. My view is that this kind of thing is ok in the appropriate place - but not in the heart of our civic centres. There needs to be some control exercised, not from a moralistic standpoint but from a sense of maintaining a balance, and knowing what is appropriate and where. Otherwise, the local authorities can be seen as endorsing the proliferation of a culture of sexual excess, and a decline in respect for women in society. What kind of message does this send to younger people and to visitors to our city?
Cahralotte, West Midlands

The government has no right to interfere in people's live in this way.

Andy, Scotland
The government has no right to interfere in people's live in this way. Take a look at today's world headlines then GROW UP. Just because your own personal pseudo-moral beliefs find something distasteful does not make it wrong. What next? Punishing people for not going to church, or maybe for speaking out against the government?
Andy, Scotland

Table Dancing, or table side dancing, is not the same as lap Dancing. Glasgow has a number of clubs of these differing types. To the best of my knowledge they are all in the city centre with very few, if not no, local residents who could object. The women who work in these clubs can make good money and the men that go there do not necessarily treat all women as sex objects. The news item appeared to by biased towards the extremely small number of feminists who seem to be against women expressing themselves and taking advantage of men who are only to willing to hand over lots of money to them in order to have a lap, or table side, dance.
Ian

Table/lap dancing clubs provide entertainment for adult males. If individuals don't want to see that sort of thing, they have a choice. Don't go!! I've had enough of people interfering with what I can and cannot do in my spare time, with the money I've worked hard to earn. We are in the 21st century now, and wherever you go across Europe, you will find adult entertainment for those who want it. Why should the UK be different because of a few prudes ?
Roy Cooper, UK

It's time to pull ourselves out of the gutter of immorality.

Graham Beer, Nottingham
Lap Dancing is just another form of pornography. Like the rest of the sex industry, it exploits both men and women, and further erodes the moral fabric of our society. The fact that it can be found in every major city in Europe does not make it good or right; nor does respecting the human body equal prudery. It's time to pull ourselves out of the gutter of immorality.
Graham Beer. Nottingham

I am writing with regard to your feature on 'Lap Dancers'. I am a 35 year old woman who would love to try lap dancing! What is the big deal about it anyway? It is behind closed doors with signs that tell you what is going on in there, if you don't like it don't go in there! We have a club very near us and we have never had a problem! In my opinion they should live and let live!
Sara Moore

I live in Aberdeen, and we now have a lap dance club here in the city. I find these places to be against everything that I believe in. My husband shocked me when we heard on the News about the subject of lap dancers, he said that after seeing what it was like in Berlin, were he served with the British Army, he doesn't want Scotland/Britain turning bad like most European Capital Cities, I must say that not all men think these places are useful, in his words they are degrading for the woman who work there. In my opinion if this is allowed, what is next - sex shops - we must consider our children in all of this, with everything else going on, do we need more obstacles for us the parents.
Tara-Erin Gilchrist, Scotland

I am fully aware these places are fantasy

Tim Cockhill, UK
I have been to lap dancing bars and consider myself a normal young male in my late 20s. I am fully aware these places are fantasy and the women if anything are more unattainable than in a bar but that is part of the fun. It is closely monitored inside and there is strictly no hassling of the dancers allowed so the girls get to work in a secure setting whilst earning (I would imagine) a lot more than most jobs. To say it is demeaning is neither here nor there as if you think it is demeaning you neither have to work in or visit these places. It should be left to personal preference.
Tim Cockhill, UK

Lap dancing clubs are very respectable. No woman is *made* to take their clothes off - as far as I know all the ladies there are doing it because of a choice they have. I have been many times, and it doesn't encourage me to get into prostitution or suddenly start attacking women in the street! The people clearly want it - hence why it's a 'boom industry'. Why do I go? I appreciate the female form and enjoy the attention of a one-to-one experience. Before any woman makes a comment, I invite her to reflect if she's ever seen or been interested in seeing a male stripper! Not even for a hen night?
Josh Thomas, UK

 WATCH/LISTEN
 ON THIS STORY
Your Politics
Your Politics: Lapdancing

This week

Previous issues

Get involved

FORUM
See also:

15 Jan 03 | England
25 Nov 02 | Education
16 Oct 02 | England
Links to more Your Politics stories are at the foot of the page.


 E-mail this story to a friend

Links to more Your Politics stories

© BBC ^^ Back to top

News Front Page | Africa | Americas | Asia-Pacific | Europe | Middle East |
South Asia | UK | Business | Entertainment | Science/Nature |
Technology | Health | Talking Point | Country Profiles | In Depth |
Programmes