New powers for local officers?

Community support officers throughout England and Wales are set to be given additional powers.

CSOs can already hand out fines for a wide range of offences but will now be able to use reasonable force to detain suspects for up to 30 minutes while waiting for police officers to arrive.

The government claims that the move will help police build safe communities, but police unions are concerned that CSOs do not have the experience, training and safety equipment to deal with confrontational situations.

Should community support officers be given more powers? Will the move help in the battle against crime?

---

This debate is now closed. You can read a selection of your views below.

SUGGEST A DEBATE This topic was suggested by Steve Ford, Notts, UK: Are Community Support Officers proving to be effective? Send us your suggestions for Have Your Say debates

Any presence is better than none at all. Its just a shame we can't have more full time police officers monitoring the streets. Day and night.
Ian, London

Recently a fully trained police officer was shot several times in the legs, despite the benefit of two years training. He was lucky & he survived. Another was recorded pleading for his life before he was shot dead. Both crimes arose from minor incidents. Does the government think criminals are going to check CSOs badges and give them an easy ride. Of course not. My concern is not for the communities, it is for the safety of these untrained officers.
Kathy, UK

CSOs are a complete waste of time. The money being spent on paying them could and should be spent on real police officers with actual powers. I see lots of CSOs about where I live, but they don't make me feel any safer because I know if I were to be attacked, they could do nothing except radio for the police, which isn't really any different to a passer-by dialling 999. How are they going to detain people for 30 minutes with no handcuffs or other equipment? And if they are given such equipment, then they might as well be police officers - with the necessary thorough training. Frankly I think a single police officer is of more use than a dozen CSOs.
SJ, England

Often they are the only "police" we see in our area Paul, Stourbridge, England

I think giving the CSOs extra powers is a good idea - often they are the only "police" we see in our area. The regular officers seem more interested in hounding motorists than getting out on the beat dealing with yobs. Give the CSOs the tools to do the job the "proper" police won't do!
Paul, Stourbridge, England

The ONLY way to make our streets safer, is to punish severely or deter the criminals from offending in the first place, the two go hand in hand. I would be more than happy to see the government spending my hard earned cash on building more prisons to house the increasing number of criminals, especially if it makes the streets safer for me and my family.
Jamie, Leicester, UK

I run a shop and in my area we have problems with anti-social youths. The CSOs are just laughed at by these delinquents. Even the police admit that most CSOs aren't that great. I wasn't aware until recently that CSOs are not under the jurisdiction of the local police commander. Who controls them then?
Anon, Ruislip

As an ex police officer, I find that widening the powers of CSOs to incorporate detention of suspects alarming. Not only for their own personal safety as people who are detained are often reluctant to be detained! But also from a civilian point of view - who wants to be man handled by a person with neither the skill or training to do so?!!! This smacks of cost cutting when the majority of people on the street would rather have more visible policing by trained professionals and in real terms at only a slighter increase in cost.
Steve, Rainham, Great Britain

How long before these criminals get away with crimes because the CSO hasn't detained them correctly? Dave, Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK

Training, training, training. How long before these criminals get away with crimes because the CSO hasn't detained them correctly? Just spend the money and get more police on the beat, surely this isn't rocket science.
Dave, Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK

I've always found them to be highly effective when giving directions to lost tourists in central London.
Brian, Folkestone

If these CSOs are properly trained and monitored - as I'm sure the police federation will insist upon, it will hopefully be a positive step.
Mark, Manchester

Having these CSO is a good idea and being able to detain someone is also good - but let's hope they are given the full backing they deserve when a suspect decides his human rights or something were violated - the backing that our police deserve but sometimes don't get.
David Smith, Essex, UK

The money spent on CSOs could have gone into putting police back on the beat Ashley Hinton, Oxford

This is another example of policing on the cheap, which is why the CSOs were introduced in the first place. Putting real police back out on the street is what we want, not having them sitting in offices doing paperwork or sitting in camera vans earning revenue in the great speed-camera scam. The money spent on CSOs could have gone into putting police back on the beat, by providing more back-up staff in police stations.
Ashley Hinton, Oxford, UK

What about the existing force of Special Constables who do have full police powers? I don't think that CSOs should be given more powers.
Dean Knight, Lakenheath, Suffolk

The community support officers that I have seen around London have nothing like the presence of a proper Police Officer. I think they would find it difficult to actually arrest someone as they aren't taken very seriously.
Giles Clinker, London, UK

Why for once can't this government be honest about something? If we need more Police Officers then let's say so and recruit them. If we don't, then there is no need for Community support officers or their like.
David, Milton Keynes

I am a Police Officer. I would rather have one new fully warranted Police Officer than four CSOs. They are simply not effective, and I am far from alone in believing this.
Police Officer, London, UK

It's starting to feel more and more like a Police state this country. It's really sad that the government can't think of positive ways of tackling crime.
Rick White, Manchester, UK

You'd be better of returning to the old system of village constable. That way everyone (without a criminal record) has to spend a year as a constable for a particular area (either street or village). Knowing that one's neighbour will be taking his turn later would be enough to curb excessive use of powers. Meanwhile just pay for fully trained police officers, not merely empower wardens. Any fool can see its coppering on the cheap for goodness sake.
David R Jefferies, Norwich, UK

Yes, I believe the support officers should be given more powers. The move would help in the battle against crime providing they also have the support of our judiciary to back them up. By that I mean longer sentences for the criminals. A deterrent is required, not appeasement.
Dave Harding, Abingdon, England, UK

We will eventually have a poorer police service as a result Badly injured ex-policeman, UK

These powers will not be invoked evenly across the country. It will depend on the rulings of each force. How are the public going to know which community support officers have been given the power by their Chief Constables and which haven't? Not a lot of use if you're visiting a different area. This comes hot on the heels of Home Office guidance aimed at reducing the injury pensions of those Police Officers who have been injured. Guidance that will affect the most seriously injured the most. It's simply another way of reducing costs. We will eventually have a poorer police service as a result.
Badly injured ex-policeman, UK

We have Special Constables to help the police. They are properly trained we could pay them more. Community support officers should be disbanded.
Bill Wellington, Newcastle upon Tyne

A real improvement would be to employ more police officers, not go through this cost saving/electioneering half-hearted exercise. Again.
Steve Kempster, Preston, Lancs

I am currently a Special Constable, I've been trying to join the regulars for over a year now and still none of my local forces are recruiting. It is frustrating that forces can't recruit regular offices due to budgeting difficulties and yet there is a drive to recruit many more CSOs who are incredibly limited in what they can do. I think the money should be spent on recruiting regular officers - there are thousands of us waiting to join but can't.
Naomi, Nottingham, UK

I support the idea completely. Earlier this week my car was badly damaged from an arson attack on a garden shed. The next day 2 community support officers came round to talk to me about it, and said they had a good idea who did it. If they had more powers, they might be able to catch these thoughtless idiots, while the police can spend their time dealing with more serious crime.
Kate, UK

Simply give us more police Tony Kenny, Barrow, UK

Why not simply train them as Special Constables and give them the full powers? Or simply give us more police? Looking at my council tax, less than half a percent of it goes to the police, I would happily pay double this to get an old style community-bobby back!
Tony Kenny, Barrow, UK

I was travelling in England recently and saw four Community Support Officers at breakfast in a Holiday Inn hotel in Droitwich. I wondered what they were and asked my colleague who lives in England but he too was unaware of their function. The two men officers left and one of the two women officers promptly put her boots up on one of the chairs vacated by their colleagues. Having since learned what a Community Support Officer is I think perhaps better judgement in recruiting is called for if the loutish behaviour of the woman I observed is a measure of their standards. I shudder to think how they would act when arresting members of the public.
Desmond Bradley, Cirencester, currently in Germany

If we tackled the cause of crime with harsh sentences, a judicial system that wasn't headed up by buffoons, and an end to PC nonsense where a criminal has more rights than a victim- we might not need these officers in the first place.
Stu, UK

I support the idea completely. Earlier this week my car was badly damaged from an arson attack on a garden shed. The next day 2 community support officers came round to talk to me about it, and said they had a good idea who did it. If they had more powers, they might be able to catch these thoughtless idiots, while the police can spend their time dealing with more serious crime.
Kate, UK

We don't need the police equivalent of the TA. What we need is for the real police to get out from behind their desks and get on patrol. Where I live, you only ever see the police after something has happened, preventative policing, i.e. being on patrol, doesn't happen anymore.
John G, Battersea, England

Yes I think they should be given more powers, especially in the detention element of their work. However I do think that local police officers must still be equally as visible. Anti-social behaviour should be the CSO's main area of operations.
Ed, UK

So where do CSOs stand against wrongful arrest? Steve, London

If I was to walk out of a shop and be stopped by security and detained until police came for something I didn't do, then I would have the right to prosecute the security guard for wrongful arrest. So where do CSOs stand against wrongful arrest?
Steve, London

I see this as a potential problem, assaulting a police officer is one thing but I do not think many thugs would hesitate to take on a CSO if they attempt to detain them.
James, Oxford

I feel sorry for these well-meaning individuals who feel passionately enough about their community to go out and do this. I can only imagine the grief they will encounter, having the same authority and social standing as a traffic warden. Heaven knows even police officers receive little enough respect. There is no substitute for trained, properly empowered police officers so what we need is more of them and out there in the community. Interestingly, there always seem enough of them at football matches!!
Gordon, Gillingham, England

You can give the CSOs, as much power as you want, it will not stop crime. To stop crime you have to look at the courts, and sentencing this is the failure point. "Loony" judges and magistrates, that's the problem, along with the criminal prosecution service, these two areas of the justice system, have failed the public, and the police, time after time.
Jim Evans, Brighton, UK

This is well-intentioned, but doesn't go far enough; we need to get rid of the "Criminals' Charter" Human Rights Act, and then start policing and enforcing on a zero-tolerance basis. Zero Tolerance has been shown time and again as the only effective means to reduce crime.
Andy, Edinburgh, UK

It's just more "policing-on-the-cheap" Pete, London, UK

It's just more "policing-on-the-cheap" When will we get enough proper police, to do the job properly? This is similar to teaching assistants, in schools. The government gives them a few powers, then, when nobody is looking, their powers are slowly increased. It's just government-on-the-cheap! The trouble is that we do not get a proper service, if we do not pay for it.
Pete, London, UK

In my opinion even having such people as CSOs, let alone giving them more powers, is a total cop out on the part of the authorities who are in fact failing miserably to perform their jobs.
DRL, MK, UK

This is no substitute for properly trained and equipped police officers, just bodies on the beat on the cheap.
Brian W, Chelmsford, UK

This is another example of the Government failing to produce a coherent policy and desperate to try and prove it is doing something about law and order. We have a vast array of people from Police to CSO to Local Authority Wardens all going around fulfilling some form of 'policing' role in an uncoordinated manner. For the public it is very confusing, if someone with a uniform stops you do they have the power to do as they claim or are they bogus, maybe a criminal. The whole system needs reform and the adoption of the continental model

As a former Metropolitan Police Officer I agree that there is a role for a lower level of Police Officer to carry out certain tasks, having said that they still should be sufficiently well trained. Policing on the cheap and election time gimmicks are not the way forward.
Chris Parker, Buckingham

Will the CSOs have a true sense of policing priorities? I can envisage a scenario whereby a CSO detains someone for a minor offence (e.g. littering) and then the police are forced to come to the scene, taking them away from higher priority work. In response to Alan of Cardiff, the power of citizens arrest (in England and Wales) only applies if the alleged offence is one for which there is at least a five year statutory imprisonment term. To perform a citizen's arrest when this is not the case, renders the arresting citizen liable to be sued for unlawful arrest and may jeopardise any police action.
James Rigby, Wickford, Essex

Why not simply train them as Special Constables and give them the full powers? Tony Kenny, Barrow, UK

Why not simply train them as Special Constables and give them the full powers? Or simply give us more police? Looking at my council tax, less than half a percent of it goes to the police, I would happily pay double this to get an old style community-bobby back!
Tony Kenny, Barrow, UK

These CSOs tend to be middle aged volunteers. I fail to see how they will be able to restrain a determined criminal. This scheme will last as long as it takes for the first CSO to get hospitalised by a suspect.
Matt, Sheffield

More fully trained police officers are required, not some cobbled together mixture of 'wanabes' and 'busybodies'; who would invariably abuse whatever power they are given.
Jim, UK

Never seen a Community Support Officer. Perhaps the new powers will make them more visible.
Bumble, Dartford, Kent

I never used to see police foot patrols round my estate. We do get regular patrols by CSOs now though. Personally I feel happier knowing that someone is watching out for my property and chasing the gangs of kids away. There has been a fall in break-ins and petty vandalism since these patrols started. Real police would be better, but the CSOs do a good job.
Peter, Nottingham

As long as they can be seen and are not in the station doing administration. There are billions of pounds being spent on law and order, but certainly no additional police on the beat.
Chris Kisch, Milton Keynes

What is needed are more fully-trained police officers, with more emphasis on beat policing. The use of CSOs is another Blunkett New Labour legacy; headline grabbing, useless in practice and ultimately doomed to be dropped when the gloss wears off the PR. Speaking as an ex-serviceman who has served on peacekeeping duties, these men and women are being put into an impossible situation and stand to be in real danger.
Andy

CSOs are only providing a service that the public require and the police are failing to do Trevor, Cambs, UK

If there was a visible police presence then these CSOs would not be required. However, given that the sight of a policeman in my village is rarer than a solar eclipse, any help that is forthcoming to control rampaging drunken and abusive youths is most welcome. CSOs are only providing a service that the public require and the police are failing to do.
Trevor, Cambs, UK

Police officers spend up to 16 weeks on intensive training at a police collage and then spend 2 years on probation learning to do the job correctly including physical training on detention and arrest. Now we will have jumped up traffic wardens, most of who are well past their prime, who will have the same power as a highly trained police officer.
Alan, Chelmsford, Essex

These CSOs should not be given extra power unless properly trained as they will be putting themselves at risk. The solution to me seems obvious - recruit and train more actual police officers!
Julie Mayor, Torpoint, Cornwall

Seems like a good idea, but is thirty minutes really long enough for police to arrive? Also, if the police are opposed to these new powers, this might have an adverse affect on their response times.
John, Milton Keynes, UK

I'm not sure that I can support the increase in CSO powers without the accompanying training. I work in Customs law enforcement and the arrest and search training is rigorous. Knowledge of the do's and don'ts and limitations to powers is one of the most important elements of the job.
Geoff, Leeds

If this helps to get more uniforms back pounding the streets and being a strong visual presence, then it can only be a good thing. Knowing that the CSOs have more power and are more visible might just be enough to make the 'chancers' think twice before committing a crime.
Kiltie, Staffs, UK

They don't need anyone's permission to detain someone. All UK citizens have this power - it's called a citizen's arrest
Alan, Cardiff, Wales, UK

This is a wonderful idea. In this day and age, our communities need as much additional support as they can get. I applaud this move.
Geoffrey Sparrow, Derby, UK