Northern Ireland: Will the proposals work?

The British and Irish governments have put forward a package to break the deadlock in the peace process in Northern Ireland.

Among the proposals are plans for the scaling back of the British military presence in Northern Ireland, if the situation allows, and an investigation into a number of controversial killings.

But unionists believe the package doesn't say enough about the key issue of putting IRA weapons beyond use.

They are also angry that members of paramilitary organisation that have declared a ceasefire, but who are still 'on the run', may be offered an amnesty.

Is the proposed package enough to break the deadlock in the peace process? Have the two governments got the balance right between unionist and nationalist concerns? Will these latest proposals work?

This Talking Point has now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.

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The IRA have failed to keep their side of the agreement by not decommissioning their arms. What value is an agreement that is only adhered to by one party? Failure to pursue the perpetrators of serious crime sends a message that law and order are negotiable.
Andrew Plater, Australia

Here we go again. Another attempt at peace and another attempt to break it with a car bomb in London. I do not wish to appear cynical but I, as a native Belfast citizen, have grown weary of successive talks upon talks. I truly hope that the new proposals work but sadly my expectations are low.
Suzanne McMillan, Malaysia

The proposed decommissioning will never happen

James, UK

Typical British Government, lambs leading lions. How can they offer complete immunity to the terrorists on the run yet continue to hound our soldiers who did the politicians' bidding. Surely what is fair for one side should be available to the other. This weakness encourages the real IRA (provos by any other name) to continue its bombing campaign. Why don't the peace loving people of Northern Ireland show their distaste for terrorism like the millions who protest in Spain against ETA. Surely not because they care more about posturing than the macho Mediterraneans. As long as both sides are supported by the local population the problem will renew itself with each generation. As for CW I was born and raised in Liverpool and never saw an ounce of sectarian violence. NI taxes don't cover your unemployment bill let alone subsidise anything on the mainland. If you don't like that then go elsewhere, but no one would have you. Eire rejected you and so would the UK
Ian, Canada, ex England

No, because neither side wants it to work because neither side will profit by it working. NI should become a separate state. Great Britain can then avoid wasting billions dealing with their self made and self-aggravating problems. I would vote for a party with this agenda.
Anders, Great Britain

The latest "proposals" from the two Governments are simply another step toward total capitulation to the terrorists. Even the words used by the Government spokesmen are the exact words used by IRA-Sinn Fein. If there are to be any more talks to fine-tune the IRA wish list, don't bother hiring a country hotel, just meet in the most appropriate city for such discussions - Munich - so history can repeat itself.
George W, UK

Firstly, Kevin Doyle, are you on drugs? If the government doesn't deliver then the weapons should be given back! "Sorry we couldn't give you what you wanted lads, but here's your guns back, off you go and kill a few more people" I was always taught that if you don't know anything about a subject, keep quiet, please adopt this maxim A.S.A.P. I originally come from a small border town in the Republic and for all the people out there that seem to think that the ordinary people on both sides of the border are just sitting back and not doing anything to try and change things, I can assure you nothing could be further from the truth. There are dozens of different schemes and programmes, primarily aimed at children on the go, all with the same goal-peace. I think that if the powers that be ploughed more money into schemes like these, get to the kids before the hate is ingrained into them, by the time those kids are old enough to vote things might be different. Ignorance is a powerful weapon too, we tend to fear and hate things we don't understand, take away the ignorance and hopefully the fear and hate would follow.
Aoife, UK

The latest "proposals" from the two Governments are simply another step toward total capitulation to the terrorists

George W, UK

The IRA can obstruct the peace process as long as it refuses to disarm. It can refuse to disarm as long as it can continue to exist as a guerrilla army. It can continue to exist as a guerrilla army as long as the nationalist civilian population protects and supports it. The nationalist civilian population will continue to harbour and protect the IRA as long as the nationalist civilians don't really want peace. We will never understand violence in Ireland as long as we kid ourselves that the (R) IRA is a tiny bunch of guys with no support from civilians. But of course, you won't publish this because pointing out the ultimate responsibility of the behaviour of the civilian population for the violence is completely politically incorrect.
Jon Livesey, USA

Dear Tim from Scotland - "the UK should walk away"? How does that work? Since N Ireland is part of the UK, how can the UK walk away from itself (but then, hasn't that just been happening in some senses). Your other gem of "Let Northern Ireland be independent and recommend that no Democratic Government recognise their passports." Anyone knows that an independent NI will never work, but that isn't my main point against your "argument". What makes you think that the UK has a democratic government? Please don't impose your own narrow minded Scottish political views on us... we in Northern Ireland have plenty of that already, thank you.
CW, UK

Exactly which part of the new proposals is not more concessions to Sinn Fein/IRA? The proposed decommissioning will never happen. If it happened how would Sinn Fein put pressure on us for more concessions?
James, UK

Real democracy and peace are as much about the removal of the threat of violence as silent guns

Richard, Northern Ireland

S from the UK, if Northern Ireland is a third world trouble spot, then so is the rest of the United Kingdom. The ugly race riots across northern England show that Northern Ireland does not have a monopoly on hate. The proposals are unbalanced - that comes from one side using the threat of violence to achieve their aims. Real democracy and peace are as much about the removal of the threat of violence as silent guns.
Richard, Northern Ireland

While it is hoped that a face saving fudge over decommissioning can be achieved, the fact remains it is unlikely. Hideous reminders like last night's bomb in Ealing serve as a nudge to remind us what we could go back to, except the chances are it would be so much worse. The peace process is working, slowly but surely. There is a generation growing up without bombs in Northern Ireland. That is a success. In an ideal world the IRA would make a gesture in decommissioning some weapons and I sincerely hope they do, but we do not live in an ideal world.

My worst fear is that there could be a huge bomb that rips apart this whole process. If that happened and we did slide back into all-out war, would people really think that it was so important to try and strong-arm the IRA into submission? Or would we look back at this wasted chance with massive regrets?
Sean Hughes, England

The package is built on the wrong foundation

BW, NI

If the two governments were truly courageous they would have expelled SF and the PUP from the assembly a long time ago. Both their associated armies have been involved in violence and terror in recent days and months. Such action would compel them to choose politics OR violence, rather than, as it is at present, allowing them to practice both. Similarly, John Reid should have declared the UDA ceasefire as over.

When John Reid states that "the alternative" is too terrible to contemplate (or words to that effect) who does he think/know will be reverting to violence; not the UUP, SDLP, Alliance or DUP? For those of us who are true democrats it is clear that these terrorist linked political parties are only using this process to further their respective causes. None of the ceasefires are "intact". The whole process is a farce.

The DUP would not be kept out of the talks if they had a private army whether they supported the agreement or not. DUP voters are not murderers so Tony Blair couldn't give two hoots about them being displeased at not being included in the talks. The package is built on the wrong foundation, namely, give the terrorists what they want to prevent them killing anyone etc. Peace must be built on righteous grounds, e.g. the punishment of evildoers (of both persuasions). Peace should not be purchased if the price is too high.
BW, NI

Tony Blair is 100% responsible for putting the lives of the British public at risk with the so called peace process - as we have seen last night, the IRA will never ever give up and Tony Blair is setting them all free to do as they want. If you want to murder and destroy do it in the name of the IRA and you will walk free. I am British but I turn my back on that country because I will never support a government that values its people so little.
Rhiannon Davies, Germany

The package has tried to obviously meet the needs of both sides. However it is very concerning that a bigger emphasis is placed upon the policing issue rather than decommissioning of IRA weapons. In the past few weeks it is quite clear that a strong police force is still needed on our streets. Also the use of baton rounds by the police should be promoted since there is still a continuing strong threat of live rounds and other arms being used by the paramilitaries on the streets.

The problem with rioting here is somewhat different to those events, which occurred in Bradford a few weeks back. With weapons still in the hands of paramilitaries and decommissioning clearly secondary to policing in this latest document the RUC still have a strong case for the use of plastic bullets (only when absolutely necessary). Certainly a gesture by the IRA and loyalist terrorists is needed in order for any progress to be made.
Tony, Northern Ireland

If they tear up the agreement then the UK should walk away. Let Northern Ireland be independent and recommend that no Democratic Government recognise their passports. If any NI citizen should want to travel then they should apply to Dublin for a passport of convenience. UK mainland is too tolerant. It is time our Government laid down the conditions for NI remaining within the UK
Tim, Scotland

It's evident from recent riots in Belfast that the political strategies aren't making an iota of difference to the people of Northern Ireland. There is hate which is being passed down the generations. What is needed are community efforts to bring people together. Of course, this will take decades.
Colm, UK (Irish)

Seems to me that too many NI Unionists only want to be British when it suits their purpose but will not accept British directions when it does not. They say they want to be British, but the question must be: do we want THEM?
Eric Cooke, Scotland

Kevin Doyle (USA) - given that you appear to accept the validity of terrorism (that's what it is) to achieve a particular aim, presumably you would not argue with those who supported Timothy McVeigh and his self-proclaimed cause. Or is that too close to home?
Higel, UK

Once more we see your Government sell-out your people. If they wanted peace, then crack down on both sides of the divide, both are big drug dealers, running protection rackets prostitution, the list is endless, as an ex-soldier (British) we all knew what was, and still is going on. So please stop selling out the very people that are walking the streets, you wonder why you can't get enough people into the army etc. Now it's clear why you want the double jeopardy law changed let's try the soldier twice
John, Canada

They wouldn't let any engagements get in their way

Ashley Amos, London, UK

These latest proposals are unlikely to work for Northern Ireland because like the Good Friday Agreement, they are a "fudge" that attempts to accommodate opposing positions on the respective parts of the unionists and nationalists rather than marking out common consensus. Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern have admitted as much in being absent and leaving their usually anonymous "bag carriers" in Brian Cowen and John Reid to launch the proposals. If the British and Irish leaders really believed Adams and Trimble would be smiling again in government, they wouldn't let any engagements get in their way.

Remember when Mr. Blair cancelled PMQ's to remain at the talks in Staffordshire? Now, he would rather have talks with the South Americans about their failing economies, and tip-toe across the still smouldering embers of the Falklands conflict. On the controversial decommissioning issue which caused the breakdown of meaningful democratic government in the province, the two governments merely state that the destruction of arms must be carried out to the satisfaction of the International Decommissioning watchdog; hardly radical new ground. The peace process needs new ideas, not unworkable compromises. Blueprint for change, I unfortunately think not. Rather blueprint for dissolution of the Stormont Assembly. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Ashley Amos, London, UK

I would desperately love this process to work, but there are too many old scores to settle on all sides that I doubt if there will EVER be a solution. There are only two possible solutions - time passing, and the balance of power changing to republicans so that unionism withers away (as many who are or feel British have moved to the UK mainland), or some larger scale set of circumstances overtaking the NI situation (like the creation of a European super-state, or perhaps an asteroid impact?).

A few points for earlier contributors: HD - what do you mean "shoulder the bill for NI"?. Do you think that people in NI don't pay taxes to the British Government? And how do you think we feel about subsidising disasters like the London Underground, the Scottish Parliament Building project, and the Millennium Dome? To S & Richard K - Maybe you should think about sending British/NATO/UN troops into Bradford and Burnley, as they might be needed to protect the civilian population and restore order (ring any bells, anyone?).

What gets me annoyed about many of the comments posted here are is that a lot of you out these seem to be talking down to the people of NI - like we are ALL bigots. Don't forget that, while it is incredibly sad that the bigotry and hatred of some blight NI, the problem is not exclusively ours - e.g. Glasgow & Liverpool (with Irish origins, of course), Bradford and Burnley, parts of the USA, parts of France, parts of Germany etc. What might help to get us out of this mess would be if the people actually had the chance to express their will for peace in Northern Ireland, and make it happen. Unfortunately for us, posturing politicians, weak governments, and bitter paramilitaries (or should I say greedy criminals) will make sure that progress can NEVER be achieved.
CW, UK

They'll have less time to further their short-sighted and selfish bigotry

HD, UK

As an impartial observer from the mainland - no political or religous views for either side I have only one question. Why do we have to constantly shoulder the bill (tens of millions of pounds a year) to support NI? If the population do not feel that the agreement brokered between Westminster and Dublin is satisfactory then fine. Pull out the troops and devolve power to the NI assembly - perhaps if the politicians are forced into compromise to keep the country's economy operating they'll have less time to further their short-sighted and selfish bigotry.
HD, UK

Consent? Conceded. Ceasefire? Conceded. Arms Dumps? Inspected. The Goalposts keep moving, it's a slow process and Unionism has a short memory. It typically chooses to forget all the victories it has won. If the Provos destroyed every weapon they own they could re-arm to present levels within 18 months. Their guns are silent, its time to get on with everyday issues, time to run local government. The guns will go in the end. The complete lack of reproach towards the extremely loud "loyal" guns vs the condemnation of the silent republican ones exposes the truth. Unionism has always been about "Not and Inch" and "What we have we hold". Delay after delay after delay in an attempt to maintain the ascendancy and antiquated status quo. They love being ruled from London so much, Blair should tell them to get into line or get out of the UK!
Aodh, Ireland

Quite frankly, I can't see any problems with this document - it is designed to break an impasse unnecessarily forced on the two governments by a sluggish, untrusting IRA and the unfortunate resignation of a decent, trusting man by hardliners in his own party. The document clarifies many key issues - a new police service must be built to serve both communities equally, army demilitarisation will surely benefit unionists (although clearly not as much as nationalists) and a review of the parades commission is long overdue because it is restricting the rights of groups to move freely.

Of course, the main issue for unionists is that of decommissioning and whilst only 67 words have been set aside to this subject, there is a definite implication that the IRA will have to start decommissioning in order for the process to move forwards. But I ask this: how many settlements have ever been resolved by an undefeated "army" being told what to do by its enemy? Because that is the position that the IRA perceives itself to be in, and it will only harden its position if unionists lay down a list of demands. In my view, unionists could do everybody a favour by biting their tongues on this issue for the next few days until the IRA have announced their intentions.
Simeon Ayling, England

The proposals in this document are fair. It will be sad to see it die an early death though. I feel it is inevitable that rejection will come from the unionist quarter, if not already. Why ask for guns to be handed over? It is merely a gesture. Guns and Semtex can always be imported again. Decommissioning is merely a confidence building measure; it isn't a practical reality.

A compromise is the best anyone can hope for on this issue. Unionists are adamant on surrender of arms and the provisionals are adamant on no surrender to the unionist agenda. People here in Northern Ireland are less inclined to look at the other person's point of view. Instead, we have politicians playing to people's selfish side, while not trying to encourage them to accept differences and work to a middle ground settlement. I thought the process was about reaching agreement and middle ground politics and not preconditions. It seems internal party politics are what is taking away from that spirit in the agreement. The future is grim here.
Paul, Northern Ireland

While the idea of Northern Irish independence may sound attractive to outsiders, I can assure you that would be a grave mistake. Within days civil war would break out and the loss of life would be savage. At least at the moment there is some kind of structure in place at the moment, and some progress is better than none.
Michael Gahan, Ireland

The solution is fairly simple. Bring in NATO troops to occupy the country just like every other Third World trouble spot where the people have no respect or value for human life. That way, prosecutions could begin against political leaders for crimes against humanity and the honest, peace loving, decent people, on all sides could get on with their lives.
S, UK

The new proposals for peace in Northern Ireland will appease neither the Unionists or the Republicans

NE, UK

The new proposals for peace in Northern Ireland will appease neither the Unionists or the Republicans. It is a political fix which has not fixed anything. The sections on decommissioning are far short of the Unionist demands for the IRA surrender of arms, which was the fundamental cause of this crisis. Unionist opposition to the peace process will unfortunately harden given what they will see as a failure to listen to their demands. This of course plays into the hands of Paisley and his allies.
NE, UK

Who is Alan, UK trying to kid? Surely he doesn't believe the major UK parties can offer Ulster any more than they've already failed to deliver on this side of the Irish Sea??
Incredulous, UK

As European integration/cohesion progresses, it will, in the medium to long term, push the N. Irish "situation" to another level. Republican Irish, Independent or British? It will hardly matter. And peace will succeed simply because it has to.
Leonhard Braunizer, Canada

On and on and on this goes, with ignorance and festering hatred from both sides. What we need is a government with the guts to smash flat the gunmen, whoever they claim to represent. But no, all we'll get is more bovine scatology, and more civilians getting killed. How different things would be if Tony Blair was forced to live on the front line. Maybe that would wipe the grin of his face.
Adam, England

I'm from Northern Ireland and quite frankly am sick to the back teeth with all the political posturing and childish/infantile behaviour from these so-called "politicians". They make me ashamed of being Irish.
Brian, UK

I am appalled that no one is talking about Loyalist decommissioning

Liz, N Ireland

All we hear about is IRA decommissioning! As a protestant in Northern Ireland I am appalled that no one is talking about Loyalist decommissioning. Loyalist paramilitaries are not even talking to the decommissioning body. I do not know what the solution is but like most law abiding people in Northern Ireland I want peace.
I do not, however, feel that politicians should be preoccupied with decommissioning. Loyalists have been responsible for the majority of live gunfire over the last number of years and I have a feeling that no matter how many guns the IRA would give over, it would not be enough for some of our politicians.
Liz, N Ireland

I think a good way would be for the IRA to hand its weapons over to the Irish government and if the British do not keep their promises (as they have showed in the past) then the guns should be handed back to fight the war. And lets be honest, for those of us who did not grow up in NI, it is a war and as long as the pro British still have power and refuse to talk face to face it will be a war.
Kevin Doyle, USA (Dublin)

Nothing will work as long as Trimble continues with his isolationist position. He resigns as First Minister and distances himself from the peace process, so the loyalist paramilitaries move even further and end their cease-fire.
Dan,

Peace cannot and SHOULD NOT be built upon appeasement to terrorism, of whichever shade - this document reads like an IRA wish list¿
Bri, England

I don't believe these proposals will be accepted by any of the main political parties in Northern Ireland

Paul McKeown, England

I don't believe these proposals will be accepted by any of the main political parties in Northern Ireland (except possibly by the SDLP).
Sinn Fein will reject the proposals because it is unwilling or unable to deliver on decommissioning.
The UUP will reject the proposals because decommissioning won't be delivered.
The SDLP will accept the proposals, but this will be irrelevant.
The DUP will reject the proposals because the DUP leadership (cynically) believes that a few more dead bodies will increase their political support.
Paul McKeown, England (ex N. Ireland)

I think there is a fair chance that progress will flow from the latest initiatives of the UK and Irish Governments. In many ways, it is as though we have returned to the "fudged" detail of the original GFA. It is encouraging for many to witness an integrated approach to the three-four linked issues of Policing, Decommissioning and Demilitarisation.
There is additional comfort for many, in the knowledge that for the first time since the Northern Ireland State was established, diligent and committed "external" government authorities are involved. The UK, alone-despite its best efforts- has been, and would have continued to be unable to resolve the deep-rooted issues. With the Republic of Ireland in particular, and the USA and EU, all involved to varying degrees, I believe there is great hope for the future. It is inconceivable to imagine a return to the ghastly ordeals of the 1970's and 80's+.
James O'Sullivan, USA

Alan, Northern Ireland already has at least 12 parties, including the Tories standing at local and Westminster elections. If we in Northern Ireland wanted to vote for British parties, we would have done so by now. Anyway - this peace plan is about removing the causes of conflict from Northern Irish politics, not about the ability to vote for one party or another.
John, Northern Ireland

The time has come to go back to the drawing board, only this time the Provisional Sinn Fein IRA must be excluded

Brian Maxwell, UK

This document contains yet further concessions to Provisional Sinn Fein IRA. There is nothing in it for the majority community in Northern Ireland. The time has come to go back to the drawing board, only this time the Provisional Sinn Fein IRA must be excluded. They have been given opportunity after opportunity to join the rest of us in a democratic society, but have shown they are incapable of giving up their use of terrorism and the threat of terrorism. It's time to move on without them.
Brian Maxwell, UK

The only time when people in NI will begin to talk is when all of the arms are put down. As soon as this is done, everybody will still disagree with each other. Sinn Fein will want NI to be part of Eire, the loyalists with Britain. I think that it will be stalemate, and even giving independence will not change the situation. In such cases the arms will come back out and the fighting will begin again. The IRA knows this, so want to keep the upper hand. It's a tragic case for which I see no solution. Keep on trying though!
Stewart, France

Self governance, which the Harold Wilson government considered but rejected on political acceptability grounds, is the only way forward as Alex Korf says. I suspect that this is the big stick that the British and Irish governments threatened the NI parties with that led to the Good Friday agreement in the first place. It's time to shake that stick, if not use it.
Steve, UK

It is time control was handed back to Westminster

Dave Allen, London, UK

Will it work? Probably not. There is still too much hatred and bigotry on both sides to the point of disbelief and repulsion. If the NI politicians actually sat around and talked to each other instead of behaving like spoilt children, then maybe there would be results. They have already had too many chances, they can not handle themselves or power. It is time control was handed back to Westminster.
Dave Allen, London, UK

There is no quick, or even quickish fix to NI. But as long as people keep trying the message will get through to younger people and as they replace the old guard bigots chances for long-term peace will increase.
Graeme, England

Why don't the major UK parties set up branches in Northern Ireland in an attempt to break this deadlock of bigotry. Don't the people of Northern Ireland deserve a real choice?
Alan, UK

The proposals appear deliberately light on decommissioning and heavy on policing etc. Far from being a bad thing, hopefully this will give Sinn Fein greater power to influence the IRA to decommission, in return for all the various demolitions of army bases etc that will be effected in return. All sides need face-saving exercises here, and it is totally destructive for any party to pour scorn on the proposals, since this will only foment opposition in their communities which will mean that their leaderships will be forced to criticise and oppose the new proposals.
Paul, UK

I was horrified to read this document. I really want to see the GFA work - I am a pro-Agreement Unionist - but this document reads more like a Republican Christmas present list. It is a blatant fudge on the big issue that most Unionists want to see resolved - that of decommissioning. While it disappoints me to say it, I think it is highly unlikely that Unionists are going to accept yet another set of wishy-washy good intentions be they from the IRA or the two governments.
Patrick, Northern Ireland

At least Mo introduced more of a willingness to compromise

Anna, UK

The biggest detrimental effect to the Northern Ireland peace process was the removal of Mo Mowlam from her pivotal role. Negotiations under her leadership progressed far further than ever before. Just look at what has happened since she left - stalemate. I believe a complete balance might never be struck between the factions, but at least Mo introduced more of a willingness to compromise.
Anna, UK

It has become patently clear that the key Unionist representatives have no interest in negotiating or supporting any peace initiative that will pose a risk to Unionism's continued dominance in Northern Ireland. Their intemperent position on decommissioning is isolationist, and simply a red herring in the whole scheme of things.
S. Kelly, Canada

Is it not just another document that will spend months/ years being modified in order for all sides to procrastinate yet more on decommissioning?
Nicemandan, UK

Please give Northern Ireland independence and let them get on with it. Most people on the mainland just want to wash their hands of the matter. But there again where would our army go to train up the troops?
Richard N, UK

The only solution for the Northern Ireland situation, as I can see it, is self-governance. Rather than concede to Loyalist or Republican demands, Northern Ireland should become a self-governing country. This may help to truly foster a Northern Irish national identity, that embraces its Protestant and Catholic backgrounds.
Alex Korf, UK

Some of the package seems okay, but where's decommissioning? There's a tiny paragraph saying, that it must happen and absolutely no plan of action. I can't see the Unionist Party accepting this and Sinn Fein/IRA will not change their position. If no more than a token gesture, the IRA should relinquish their two arms dumps.
Colin, Netherlands