| You are in: Talking Point | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Friday, 23 February, 2001, 11:35 GMT
Have you lost faith in the NHS?
![]() The number of people complaining about doctors to the General Medical Council is still rising.
However, experts say this probably represents the increasing "culture of complaint" rather than a serious increase in the number of mistakes or other wrongdoings by doctors. Some hospitals have been severely criticised after fatal medical mistakes. In Nottingham an 18-year-old was injected with a powerful chemotherapy drug in the spine instead of a vein. And in London a 3-year-old was given a fatal does of gas. Do you still feel safe with the NHS? Has the NHS been unfairly criticised because of this "culture of complaint"? This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
Your reaction
In Belgium, where I live, you decide yourself if you want to go straight to a specialist doctor with your problem or to a GP. In the UK you have to convince your GP that you need to see a specialist and he will have to explain to his administrator why he could not deal with your problem himself. Most of the NHS' problems are of its own making and are borne of the promise of "free" care from the cradle to the grave handed down by successive governments since the war. There is nothing free about it and the service is very poor. In Belgium: no waiting lists, plenty of private rooms (cost a bit more, but worth it) and more than enough specialists. It's only a two and a half hour train ride away by Eurostar. Plenty of people already come over from Britain for treatment.
This country did exactly the same thing to its teachers over the past two decades and now there is a problem with staff shortages in every state secondary school across the country. The same thing is already happening to the NHS. Doctors are not infallible, and like everyone else they make mistakes. Of course incompetence must be exposed and weeded out, but rather than just criticising the NHS on its bad days how about the media doing something novel for a change and actually voicing some support for these people and this great institution.
No, I have not lost faith in the NHS, just this "all talk - no action" Government. Their promises are made on shifting sands, they shift them around when it suits their game plan. The doctors and nursing staff work long hard hours and little reward, how they keep it up I don't know. But then with the past recent mistakes perhaps they don't, but I don't, even after losing my husband to cancer which would have been treatable had it been found sooner. It is not staff's fault but the Government's inadequacy.
The state of the NHS as it currently stands leaves a lot to be desired. We hear a lot on a near daily basis of mistakes made by medical staff. I wonder how the Government expects its citizens to be confident in such a system. Increasingly those that can seek treatment in the US or elsewhere and then what does the Government do - it interprets this as a falling waiting list, which indeed is artificial.
No, I haven't lost faith with the NHS but nor do I see it as a perfect organisation.
What I do worry about is that Britain has not yet woken up to the fact that we are not taking responsibility for health in our lives which is part of the reason why the NHS is so stretched right now.
The NHS does an excellent job but could do a lot better if more funds were available. Taxes should be raised to improve the quality of the service. Private healthcare insurance is not an efficient way of funding healthcare especially as those most likely to need treatment are probably uninsurable.
Stephen Hopkins, UK
I have experienced the healthcare system in European countries such as Germany and it is in a different league from ours. Whereas doctors in this country seldom have time for patients, and are often curt and condescending, in Germany they treat you with respect. It's only on TV programs that British doctors and surgeons smile and take the time to explain things: in the hospitals, it's rare. Respecting patients doesn't cost money.
While top-level care is excellent in the UK, general health care is absolutely abysmal in my experience. In order to see a specialist you have to be referred by your GP - but how can a single person possibly be expected to correctly identify the whole range of conditions that will be thrown at them? In France, if there's something wrong with your skin you go and see a dermatologist. Here, you go to your GP and they tell you with a smile it's "nothing" or they might prescribe you antibiotics for the 'nth time. I have lost all faith in Britain's GP system; we should abandon the idea and get all doctors to specialise. Meanwhile, get an E111 and cross the Channel if you're at all worried and go see someone who actually knows what they're doing.
Patients may be losing faith in the NHS, but now so are the doctors. Patients ceaselessly tell us of their "rights" to treatment, how they have waited 21 weeks for an out patients' appointment and then harangue us when we tell them it will be 18 months till their operation. We don't want to deny treatment, but we are under-staffed and morale is low. If we stopped seeing any more patients in OPD today, we would have enough operating already on the books to take us through till Christmas 2002.
There are only 24 hours in a day and whilst doctors are the subject of constant vilification, do you think any school leaver would give this profession a second thought? I don't think so. And staffing levels will never improve.
And just when was it exactly that people stopped taking responsibility for their own health? When did the doctors become able to cure the effects of smoking, poor eating and lack of exercise? I suspect this nation is getting the health service it deserves
Anon, UK A clear case of the grass always being greener on the other side of the fence. Yes, I can understand that several British people are bitter about the standard of healthcare in this country, particularly when they or their family members have been directly affected by NHS cuts, bed shortages, etc. But do not fool yourselves into thinking these things are non-existent elsewhere.
At the age of 22 I suffered a severe stroke abroad and it was feared I would be left permanently disabled. I was treated in a private hospital (which would have cost over £50,000 had I not had subsidised healthcare as a state employee). But even in this "luxurious" and certainly expensive hospital I saw patients on trolleys in corridors for hours on end, waited days for urgent tests to be carried out. Often I had to miss vital injections as there was a severe shortage of nursing staff and in intensive care one night we had to share the nursing staff with the ward upstairs. Was this in a Third World country? No, it was Germany. Incidentally, a trip to a hospital in the US during my time there also proved costly and disappointing in terms of the standard of healthcare provided.
I work for the Blood transfusion service. Every year I see improvements to the nations Blood supply. It gets better and better. The only problem is it costs more and more. If you want the best you have to pay for it
Steve Fuller, England
Right, I have taken all the comments here on board and wish to state that when I finish my legal hours of duty (56) which happen to fall on Thursday of a Monday to Friday week I will go home and you can whistle for a doctor the rest of the time. And don't fall ill on a weekend because I wont be around.
Be realistic, If the staff in the NHS worked to rule, it would shut down in a day.
Have I lost faith in the NHS? After working in it for 21 years, all I can say is that if there is another employer in the UK that cares less about the well being of it's key operatives, I don't want to know about it. I am not surprised at the report today revealing that only one in four GPs would recommend it as a career to a 16-year-old.
Susy Fowler, UK
In response to Mark UK: next time you sever an artery on broken glass, are you going to treat yourself with traditional herbs, or go running to the nearest (NHS) casualty department then?
Sometimes it seems like people don't want doctors - and guess what? If they keep moaning/suing and attacking them in the press, their wish will come true.
David S, US (But England is my home)
Thanks to the failing NHS, I have taken my health into my own hands. As a result I have conducted a year's research on Chinese medicine and health and longevity practices and can only say that if people knew what the Chinese have know for thousands of years, then UK would have a much higher health rate and a better NHS.
As a Brit living here in the US, I can tell you that for all its many, many faults, the NHS is a national treasure. Medical over here costs me $700 a month (yes, a month) as I work as an independent consultant - no pre-tax and company paid corporate coverage for me! How lesser income people manage, I really don't know!
Andy Millward, UK
The NHS is a complete shambles, and is no safer in Labour hands than it was with the previous government. People should stop and remember what a state our Health Service is in, when they go to the ballot box in just a few months time. After being referred by our GP, my wife has had to make an appointment with the Ear, Nose & Throat consultant at a Glasgow hospital - we have just heard that we can expect an appointment in 34 weeks. Roll on the election.
As with most things nowadays, the NHS has become "business orientated", i.e. too many managers and not enough hand-on staff! The sooner this situation is reversed, then the safer everyone will be! The cut-backs on cleaning being a classic example - probably to pay the inflated salary of an unnecessary manager!
For far too long, society has treated the professional classes, including doctors, lawyers and accountants as demi-gods placing them on an elevated pedestal they do not deserve. They cannot complain if they are being debunked for what they are.
As a doctor with over 20 years experience of working in the NHS, sitting on complaints panels and personally making errors (unfortunately we all do!)I feel the very low moral in the NHS and the consistent scapegoating of individuals when whole systems are failing will only exacerbate an already difficult situation. We all (the medical profession included) need to rethink our priorities. It is right to expect when you place your life in the hands of someone else that they will treat you to the best of their ability. For this to happen the working conditions and facilities available need to be appropriate.
Junior doctors and nurses are still expected to work in a way that no other industry would allow. Who wants a sleep deprived surgeon to operate on them? The government in their wisdom has however excluded the medical profession by and large from the working times directives. The blame culture remains prevalent and the risk to any individual of any level who "whistle blows" remains huge - often loss of position or job and professional exclusion. ikely.
I have more faith in the NHS than I do private hospitals. Two years ago, my mum went into a private hospital for a routine operation - while there, she suffered a heart attack. What did the private hospital do? They rushed her to the nearest NHS hospital. The reason? The private one was not equipped to deal with a patient suffering a heart attack, and was not prepared to "have her die"" on the premises. Private hospitals are not all they're cracked up to be.
I think that the problem is people have too much faith in the NHS and forget that it is run by humans, and therefore not god-like. Problems happen, and they seem all the more common when reported on the cover of all the newspapers and on the TV. You only have to look back at the death rate of 75 years ago to see that the NHS has done a good job.
Give doctors a break. People make mistakes, no-one can perform at 100 per cent for 100 per cent of the time. Can you imagine how many people would die if they had the same rate of mistakes of most of the people you work with? It is unfortunate that when they make serious mistakes, people die - but don't underestimate the effect this has on the doctor. They don't have one of the highest rates of depression, suicide and alcoholism for no reason.
I am amazed by how unrealistic people can be. Of course mistakes are going to happen. Perhaps someone is "not concentrating" (Dean, UK) because they are too tired after lengthy shifts in difficult circumstances. Nobody can be "on form 100 per cent of the time" - get a grip! It simply isn't possible. But it is possible to reduce the number of errors - by increasing the number of staff, thereby reducing shift times and the amount of stress any one person has to deal with. And that means raising taxes to pay for improvements to the Health Service. Saying that doctors and nurses aren't allowed to be human is just plain daft.
The NHS is so dreadful that when private medical establishments decide they can't cope, they buy in NHS expertise. The dirty NHS has to keep to much higher standards or cleanliness than the private sector. The private sector has a vested interest in clearing you out of your hospital bed as soon as possible so the next body can be wheeled in to generate proper revenue.
The main problem with the NHS is that its resources are spread too thin. Only life saving treatments (operations or drugs) should come free of charge. People should have to pay for minor surgery etc. It may not be a popular view but I'd rather pay for some services when I know it means better treatment for cancer or Parkinson's disease sufferers.
The NHS has never had enough resources. In the past all our expectations, both medical workers and patients were fairly low. Quite rightly the public's expectation of service has increased with increasing knowledge and technology allowing more effective treatment for illness. Unfortunately the infrastructure for efficient access is not in place in the NHS. The main problem is that over the past twenty years this country has not trained enough health professionals to replace retiring ones let alone increase services so those working in the system are under increasing pressure to perform more efficiently.
Having worked in the service for twenty years sometimes dangerously long hours, I no longer will make excuses for the NHS. The conditions that staff work under are usually appalling; management is almost invariably poor; and extra funding always seems to be swallowed up by administration leaving no improvement in conditions for patients or the ground troops
I find the NHS to be a near idealistic health care delivery system. It is important to see that the system improves, but the rate of attack by various parties may well ruin this marvellous medical care facility. We will find the importance of having a free health service only when we loose it. One way of having a breif experience of an unregulated private health system is to have a serious illness while being on a holiday in a country with a largely private health system, without insurance cover. Phil Sanmuganathan, Scotland
The NHS, like every other organisation is being slammed whenever something goes wrong, but is never given any praise when it triumphs! Why does society today only want to hear the bad news? We are so lucky in this country to have a National Health Service, but people just seem to take it for granted! Everyone makes mistakes, which I'm sure we learn from. You have to take the good with the bad in life! I know that this is hard to see at the time, but there is excellent work being done! People shouldn't always be so negative!
Having lost both parents last year at the young age of 62, I can safely say that I have lost faith in successive governments commitment to the NHS. In both cases glaring errors were made, delays common and follow up not forthcoming. There were also times of great caring, compassion and dedication. The answer lies in leaders, leading, living up to the promises, not turning the UK into a poor reflection of a money-driven USA. I would like to see any UK politician live in America on an average wage and attempt to pay their way through having children, having sick children or even being sick themselves.
I used to believe that the NHS was pretty good, then I moved to the US 12 years ago. Yes, American healthcare is expensive, but a vast majority of American employers do subsidise medical insurance plans for their employees. No waiting lists, being able to select the kind of doctor that meshes with my philosophy, and almost immediate lab diagnostics, have left me unable to understand why the British accept the low standard of healthcare that they currently endure; could it be that they have no experience of anything better?
Yes, American healthcare is expensive, part of reason for its cost is that many G.P.s routinely offer tests on site that British patients would have to visit a hospital to obtain. Because of this, many conditions are diagnosed before the patient has begun to show symptoms. The NHS is a third rate system that seems to aspire to Third World quality. I came back to the U.K. in June of last year, and I'm just finalizing arrangements to go back to the U.S. A large part of the reason for my going back is due to the criminally substandard medical care provided under the NHS.
If there ever was a time not to imitate the Yanks, this is it. Please do not recreate the mess we have here. Keep and improve the NHS!
Yes, mistakes are being made, but how can NHS staff be expected to work in a culture where we have to do more, in the same time, with more demands & increasing expectations. If the politicians expect us to provide an acceptable service, they must come up with more money for the NHS. How can a GP be expected to make a proper diagnosis in the average consultation time of 7-10min?
Does anyone know how much of the National Insurance we pay actually reaches the NHS? Perhaps the journalists who prey on the medical profession could prey on the politicians who never make mistakes for a change, but I do agree with the chap who suggested that doctors could err towards prevention a bit more, but then who wants to hear that ? Give up beer, fags, sausages and eat all that "rabbit food" like those weirdo veggie - never!
We can all sit and slag off the NHS - after all, I'm sure many of us have "horror" stories. However, many of us will also have positive stories that we won't be broadcasting. Perhaps we need to get the balance right.
Dean, UK
I have worked over 40 years as an MD in Norway, UK, USA and Sweden. Do you seriously think that major medical mistakes are confined to the UK? I would be concerned if the present witch-hunt on the medical profession affects recruitment - you actually need more health care professionals to staff the projected new centres.
MY faith is severely dented in the NHS, especially as we
appear to be in the situation where several thousand
people die each year just because staff cannot follow
basic cleanliness procedures.
In all these cases cash or lack of qualified staff has not
been the problem. In fact managerially if they had been
on the ball, they would save money as they would not have
to treat people who became ill as a result of going to hospital!
Diane Rapier, USA
In the Netherlands people earning above a certain income are obliged to take out private medical insurance. People under this level still have to pay for the ziekenfonds (sickness funds). This is over and above the already substantial deductions for tax and social security. However, the treatment they receive is the same and a patient in one bed can be paid for by private health insurance and the (poorer) patient in the next bed is paid by the government-run ziekenfonds. The NHS service is run on the cheap and the waiting lists and old and dirty hospitals are inevitable results of this.
Government policy - keep the NHS short of cash so they can't employ enough doctors and nurses. Patients get fed up and go private. NHS waiting lists go down as a result. Government claims success.
They must think we are all stupid.
Why does anyone even bother mentioning these sorts of issues. So they make mistakes, so does everyone... Look at those US Submarines and tell me this really matters.
Ivor Campbell, Scotland The British should be so thankful to have a National Health Service. Being a middle-class American, I rely on HMO's, and that is disdainful. More mistakes are made within this health service because doctors don't seem to care. I cannot afford better health care, thus I have to suffer. It still awes me that America, being a G7 country, does not have a National Health Care service.
There's plenty said about the very few mistakes made by doctors. I very rarely hear anything about the many lives saved.
After witnessing the debacle of the NHS trying to diagnose what is wrong with my wife I can honestly say that I have not lost faith in the NHS. After all you cannot loose what you didn't have in the first place.
GH, UK No one is saying that the NHS is perfect, but if health professionals made as many mistakes in their jobs as the average Talking Point reader (me included) does in theirs, there would be corpses all over the place. Think about that!
NHS doctors consider it medically sound to cut people open and put them on powerful drugs for the rest of their lives, when they have heart disease. They consider it too radical to put them on a low-fat vegetarian diet instead. Doctors are too fixated with treating patients and not about preventing them becoming patients in the first place.
Stephen McCoull, England
"Where there's blame, there's a claim". We're constantly being force-fed this American culture of suing for everything that goes wrong. Advertisers and the media prey on the relatively few mistakes that happen but rarely give praise when peoples' lives are saved. The Health Service is wonderful - don't knock it!
Whilst doctors police themselves via the GMC and hospitals are afraid to criticise consultants, patients cannot trust that their complaints are being dealt with fairly. We know from recent cases that there are incompetent and even rogue doctors about and if patients are complaining too much it is simply a reaction to the years when their concerns were ignored by the medical profession.
Stu S, UK
I am very lucky that one of the perks of my job is private healthcare for myself and my family. This has brought me great peace of mind. I have already had to see a specialist and subsequently had a small op for a potentially serious condition. An appointment was made on the NHS for the same thing (which is apparently normal procedure). I got a letter about 2 months after my op for an appointment 3 months later!! If I'd waited for this NHS appointment the consequences could have been disastrous.
It's unrealistic to expect health workers never to make mistakes. It's unfair to vilify individuals when they do. It is, however, perfectly reasonable to demand the introduction of safeguards that minimise the likelihood of mistakes occurring and reduce the impact of those errors that will still inevitably occur.
|
See also:
Other Talking Points:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Links to more Talking Point stories
|
|
|
^^ Back to top News Front Page | World | UK | UK Politics | Business | Sci/Tech | Health | Education | Entertainment | Talking Point | In Depth | AudioVideo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To BBC Sport>> | To BBC Weather>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- © MMIII | News Sources | Privacy |
|