The Pakistani Taleban speaks

Pro-Taleban militants have been imposing their own strict Islamic rules in Pakistan's tribal areas, and that's now spreading to the rest of the country. Recently the BBC's Barbara Plett had a rare meeting with one of these local commanders, Qari Sarfraz, who has since been arrested by the authorities. Here is the full transcript of his interview.

Mr Sarfraz sees himself as a guardian of Islam

Q: In what sense are you Taleban, and how are you linked to the Afghan Taleban?

We are active in Pakistan, the Afghan Taleban is active in Afghanistan. We have contacts, and we have the same world view. We support their cause and the struggle against foreign occupation. But sometimes we have different objectives.

Q: Have you ever fought with them?

A: Yes I have fought in Afghanistan, both against the Russian occupying forces, and then alongside the Taleban against their enemies, I am proud of that.

Q: Do you go now to fight with them?

A: No I haven't been there recently, because we had our own problems in North Waziristan and in this area. As for the future, I'll see, it depends.

Q: What are your objectives here in Pakistan?

A: We are trying to stop those things which are banned by Islam, and otherwise we don't interfere with the activities of the Pakistan government.

Q: People here tell us you've banned music, why would you do that?

A: We believe this is un-Islamic, and if we have the power to stop it, we try to do so, because we think we shouldn't allow anything un-Islamic in this land.

Q: But in this area, people celebrate weddings with music. Weren't they unhappy when you made them stop?

A: Yes we tried to stop music also at weddings. It's all right if you annoy human beings, but you should not annoy Allah. Allah says you should stop un-Islamic things, so if we try to stop music, which is un-Islamic, we are justified, because we are trying to please Allah.

Q: But remember the Taleban in Afghanistan. When they did this sort of thing, they had opposition and lost support. Aren't you worried the same thing could happen to you?

A: I don't really think that a true Muslim would oppose us. Those who oppose us do so because they're used to behaving in an un-Islamic way. You cannot follow Islam in parts, but only in full. That's what being a Muslim is.

Q: What about the police? Some of your actions are against the law, you're taking the law into your own hands.

A: We have waited for more than 55 years, since Pakistan's independence. There are laws, and there are police, but they've done nothing to stop these activities. And we believe that being a Muslim isn't only about reading the Koran, praying and doing other good things. You should also stop anything that's un-Islamic. That's why we have been forced to do all this, because we thought the government would do its job, but it hasn't.

Q: Where is this going to lead, what's your goal? Are you trying to set up your own Islamic state?

A: I'll quote from the Holy Koran, which says that when un-Islamic things happen, then everybody will suffer. But there will be some people who will try to stop all this. They will try to have a proper Islamic system. We are doing our bit. We may not be able to do it in the whole country, we don't say that we are going to bring a Taleban regime or an Islamic government. But we are trying to convey a message, that there should be an end to these un-Islamic activities in this Islamic state.

Q: What is your attitude towards the Pakistani state and towards President Musharraf?

A: As we can see it, the laws in Pakistan are un-lslamic, so Musharraf is ruling a country through un-Islamic laws. It's up to Allah and the prophet to decide whether Musharraf and other people are following Islam or not, but from what I see I can say that we don't have an Islamic government in Pakistan.

Mr Sarfaz has recently been arrested

Q: Do you think President Musharraf should be opposed? Do you think there would be any point where you would move from implementing Islamic law to taking action against him?

A: I can tell you that we don't have the power and the capacity to remove this government. We cannot bring down the Musharraf regime, so we don't intend to do that. What we are trying to do is that in our area, if we see something un-Islamic happening, we try to stop it, because we are responsible for our own area.

Q: What do you think about those who've tried to assassinate President Musharraf, do you think they were they doing the right thing?

A: Yes, they were doing the right thing, because he's not implementing Islamic law. But as I said, we don't have the capacity to do that, that's not our focus.

Q: What do you think about the suicide bombings in Pakistan?

A: We believe that you are justified in carrying out suicide bombings against the enemies of Islam. But if you do it the way they are doing it in Pakistan, killing their own people and civilians... I don't know. Those who are doing it, sponsoring it, they have to answer Allah and justify it.

Q: Recently the interior minister was targeted, do you think that was justified?

A: I can't answer your question because I don't think I'm qualified. Maybe those who are doing it, they have a reason. Maybe they feel he's done something un-Islamic, maybe they feel he's a legitimate target, maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but we don't know about it and we haven't done it.

Q: What do you think about Lal Masjid (the mosque in Islamabad that's challenging the government with its own anti vice campaign)? Do you see that as an extension of what you're trying to do here?

A: As far as I know Maulana Abdul Aziz, the head of Lal Masjid, he is a man of God, and whatever he is doing is a proper thing. He's trying to stop un-Islamic things in Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan, which is praiseworthy, and I support him, and if we can, we'd help him.

The Taleban openly carry arms

Q: If the government raided Lal Masjid and Maulana Abdul Aziz put out a call for help, if you were able to would you come to his defence?

A: Not only me, but every Muslim is required to answer his call, and to help him out, because he is fighting to eradicate un-Islamic things in Islamabad, so I think why not, we would help.

Q: In Britain they say that British Muslims come to Pakistan because they sympathise with the Taleban insurgency in Afghanistan. Have you heard of such men, have you met any?

A: I haven't met any such British Muslims who have come here. I haven't seen anybody like that in Waziristan or in this area. I've only met people who belong to this area, not from outside.

Q: Some of these British Muslims, instead of fighting in Afghanistan, they get explosives training and go back to try and attack Britain. What do you think about that, do you see Britain as a legitimate target because it's taking part in the war in Afghanistan?

A: These suicide bombings, we don't know who's doing that, maybe some people are doing it for a good cause. But as far as Britain is concerned, I only know about America. We think America is the enemy of Muslims, America has occupied Islamic countries, we haven't really known much about Britain, as to what Britain is up to.

Q: If British Muslims came here for help to prepare for an attack against Britain, would the Pakistani Taliban feel they should help them, given that British Muslims feel that Britain is an anti-Islamic force?

A: If there are people who come here and seek our help, and if we are convinced that they are fighting for a just cause, then we can offer them help, whoever they are, whether they come from Britain, or from another country, because as Muslims we should support Muslims anywhere in the world. But I can tell you that right now, we are only concerned with the Afghan jihad, it's so near to us, and we're affected by this, so we are supporting and are willing to support the people who are fighting foreign forces in Afghanistan. That is a just cause, and that is near to us, to our area. But far off places I don't really know. It's possible that they have a just cause, but I'm not able to answer your questions about the jihad going on in Britain.