June 15, Birmingham

June 8, Manchester

June 1, Aberdeen

May 25, Cardiff

May 18, 2000

May 11, London

April 27, Newcastle

April 13, Edinburgh

March 30, Belfast

March 23, Maidstone

March 16, Truro

March 9, Nottingham

March 2, London

February 24, Leeds

February 17, London

February 10, Birmingham

February 3, Brussels

January 27, Southampton

January 20, Liverpool

January 13, London


June 15, Birmingham

You can join Question Time's internet debate by emailing your views on the topics discussed in this week's programme to: questiontime@bbc.co.uk

You can watch the latest programme online in Real Video by clicking on Latest edition.


The topics discussed last week were:

Fox hunting and the WI

Audience Question: Does the panel think that the fox hunting issue has been raised because of Tony Blair's WI fiasco?

Max Hastings: I think that fishing is far more cruel than fox hunting. It's a soft target which doesn't reflect any objective analysis of countryside issues.

Nick Brown: The fishing analogy trawls a blue herring across the debate! We want a free vote on the issue of hunting with hounds. But we had commissioned the Burns Report well before the WI meeting.

Michael Howard: This is a government of bullies. Jack Straw has made a complete U-turn on the issue. They tried to bully Oxford University which back fired. I think this will back fire too.

Jackie Ballard: I'm not here to defend this government. This is not just about foxes, it is also about hare, mink and deer. I don't think it was in response to the WI but they did have a bad week and wanted something popular.

Ann Mallalieu: Six to eight thousand people will lose there jobs and livelihoods if the ban goes ahead. This is going to lead to one of the greatest divisions that this country has ever faced.

Emma Inglis: The timing is irrelevant. It is something that we have waited for for a long time. We are lagging behind other countries in this.

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"Compromising the welfare"of animals?

Audience Question: Would the panel agree that the business of hunting is "compromising the welfare"of deer, foxes and hares?

Max Hastings: Hunting the in broadest sense is a natural human activity. The thing that surprises me most is the hypocrisy and conceit of those who have nothing to do with the countryside. I am deeply depressed by the urban majority who want to stamp out the rural minority.

Ann Mallalieu: I certainly don't agree that it is cruel. But what happens if we ban fox hunting is making people into criminals.

Emma Inglis: The Burns Report as I understand it comes out on the side of banning fox hunting. If someone brings a dog into my surgery and it needs to be put to sleep - what do you think they would say if I said "you start it running and I'll get the hounds?"

Nick Brown: We are providing a framework bill to allow government a free vote. The cruelty is in the pursuit and chasing it to exhaustion and terror.

Michael Howard: Burns asks what would be the effect of abolishing hunting? Animals would then be killed be trapping, shooting or by snaring. And these methods have to be seen in comparison with hunting.

Jackie Ballard: It is more cruel to hunt the animal than it is to shoot the animal.

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Tolerating the minority?

Audience Question: Does the panel consider which is the greater sign of a civilised society - taking offence at unnecessary cruelty or the toleration of minority interests?

Nick Brown: I'm very interested in minority interests. But what we have to do is separate the sport and the pageantry from the cruelty. If anyone doesn't think that chasing an animal to exhaustion and then ripping it to death isn't cruel then would they like it to be done to them?

Ann Mallalieu: I bitterly oppose cruelty to animals. I am not cruel to animals and have never been knowingly cruel to them. The country is not crying out for this legislation, only about 5% are.

Emma Inglis: I have tried to get to farms that have needed a vet but couldn't because of horses and hounds clogging up the roads purely for bloodlust. Flogging in public was entertaining and gave people jobs and has since been banned. Society had to make progress.

Michael Howard: What is minority rights? You do not ban an activity which is legal unless there is a very strong case for doing so. The burden of proof is on those who want it banned.

Jackie Ballard: Politically and philosophically I'm a liberal - the rights of people do whatever they chose are utmost - but the reason I feel that hunting should be banned is because we have a responsibility to care for the welfare and well being of animals and people.

Max Hastings: The sentimentality and lack logic I find from those who want the ban worrying. This argument is about whether people can legitimately pursue animals as a legitimate human activity.

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Compensation?

Audience Question: In the light of Mr Blair's declaration - what compensation has the government got to offer for the loss of a way of life, somebody's home and employment in an already struggling rural economy?

Nick Brown: If we can separate the sport from the cruelty then there won't necessarily be a loss of jobs. The underpinning of a rural economy cannot be based on cruelty to animals.

Michael Howard: If your job depends on hunting and you have to find something else - then you have lost your job.

Jackie Ballard: If your hunt doesn't convert to drag hunting then you will lose your job - then you have a couple of years to re-train for something else.

Ann Mallalieu: The hunting community mustn't toss this report aside - there are many issues which we should look at.

Emma Inglis: I would favour an outright ban on hunting foxes with hounds.

Max Hastings: The whole issue comes down to the tyranny of a majority seeking to destroy a minority culture which is part of a very long-standing tradition.

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Your comments:

The hypocrisy of Mr Howard is tremendous. This was the man who scrapped the right to remain silent and banned raves. And the home secretary who introduced the racist asylum policies.
James Bason, Cambridge

The fate of the kennel man is worse than that of the miner - there is no over-riding economical imperative, there appears only to be spin and tabloid expediency.
David, UK

If hunting for sport is so cruel and barbaric that needs to be criminalised, will the government refuse entry to foreign statesmen and diplomats such as President Clinton and Nelson Mandela because they hunt? Will it actively campaign against the 14 year old Masai proving his manhood by hunting lions or the Inuit who kill whales because it is there cultural right? After all in 21st century, the welfare state would provide them with an alternative cruelty free source of protein such as food stamps. Of course it won't; that would be destroying a culture. So why is our culture to be the scapegoat?
John Jackman, Hythe, Hants

Not all people in the countryside are in favour of hunting with dogs. Most of the people I know in the countryside are against this so-called sport and I wish the pro-hunting lobby should stop saying that the country dwellers are for hunting.
Perryn Biggs, Oswestry

I have two points to make.
(i) This is about class, and nothing else. The loss of jobs matters not to the pro hunting group. If the loss of jobs are so important to them Why did they not take a stance against the last government who decimated shipbuilding and the steel industry?
(ii) I have always understood sport to be a contest of equally matched strength and skills. Let us see these gentry' folk go hunting on foot without dogs. And if they catch the fox then they cull. Or is this method of sport beneath them?
Anthony, Manchester

I believe that foxhunting is just an excuse for those with privilege to show off their wares. I think that the best idea of the evening was to replace the fox in the chase with those who oppose the ban. I believe we've found the first three candidates!
Dave, Slough

In my opinion David Dimbleby chaired the discussion well and had clearly studied and absorbed the Inquiry Report. However I was disappointed to see that he let Jackie Ballard get away with two factual inaccuracies. Referring to the Cardiff University Research that operated in the three areas of England and the one area of Wales (Powys) she intimated that 60% of people there were opposed to foxhunting. I think you'll find it was the other way around.
Ian Morgan, Ceredigion

The fox, like many birds of prey, has been very unfairly treated by we humans. We will get huge numbers of chickens and pen them up in a small space with no where to hide. A fox then gets into the pen and kills as many birds as it can, a natural reaction for an animal that cannot be sure where the next meal is coming from. So what do we do about it? We blame the fox. It is about time we all started to take responsibility for our actions and not shift the blame onto those who cannot defend themselves.
Ian Thomas, Essex

I found the sheer arrogance of Max Hastings, Michael Howard and Baroness Mallalieu unbelievable in their assumption that they have a right to defend the barbaric pastime of fox-hunting. I am sure that there were millions of viewers like myself, who watched them pontificate their self-righteous views with mounting anger and horror at their statements. Their feeble and pathetic attempts to justify this disgraceful practice were pitiful to listen to.
LM, Birmingham

Hunting with hounds is the most efficient and humane way of controlling foxes, especially since it helps to disperse the population (something that other methods do not). Gassing, shooting and snaring will also 'seriously compromise the welfare of the fox'. People do not object to calling a 'pest control officer' in order to kill rats or mice (by a slow death by poison) and are quite happy to eat battery-kept chicken and pork, a practice which many would argue is much more cruel than hunting.
Frances Wilson, Kent

So John Kecsmar thinks it's okay to cause huge amounts of stress to a fox by setting the hounds on it because some people have stressful jobs? How pathetic is that? People in stressful jobs have a choice, the fox does not.
Pat, Wiltshire

Oh no! What is the hunting fraternity going to do if the new bill comes in? Badger baiting, dog fighting? Let's not forget that they have to satisfy their 'primeval urges'. In the year 2000 I see no good enough reason for a 'sport' as barbaric as this.
Emma Noon, Grantham

I would pay good money to see the likes of Nicholas Soames, Kate Hoey and others running for their lives over time and distance in the same way that they get their thrills out of doing it to foxes.
S Poole, Greater Manchester

What appals me, are the parents who enjoy this degradingly cruel sport and encourage their children to do the same. How incredibly irresponsible to teach their children to actually enjoy the cowardly inhumane chase and slaughter of a wild animal.
Bob Newcombe, Bristol

First of all I would like to say that I have lived all my life in the city and I therefore apologise if this deems me unworthy to have an opinion on this subject. Hunting is a primitive past-time which should have been eradicated from civilised society a long time ago. Hunters use the excuse that they are carrying out a cull on pests. Pest control is a government concern and should not be carried out by individuals without restrictions.
Karen Garland, Belfast

The idea that residents of towns and cities should not have a say on 'country' issues such as hunting is preposterous. Everybody in society has a view and they have every right to voice that. I live in the country and nobody I know has ever been on a hunt, nor do they wish to. I do however fully comprehend that foxes need to be controlled. This is NOT the way to do it. We are supposed to live in a civilised and democratic society, this is I fear barbaric and hugely unnecessary.
Hannah Brock, Newchurch, Isle of Wight

The government should force the anti-hunt bill through parliament without the question of a debate or any recognition of the opposition such as the House of Lords or the Countryside Alliance. When the livelihood that may be damaged is inhumane, cruel and disgusting such as is hunting, the government should take a far tougher stand and show that they are in charge (or at least should be). To misquote Ghandi: A civilisation can be judged on how it treats it's animals and it's politicians.
Benj'min Mossop, London

In response to Holger Laux, Bristol. Hunting is unfair - the fox has the advantage! Foxes are faster than hounds over short distances and can fit through smaller gaps. The only reason hounds catch foxes is because they tire, usually because they're unfit or ill. This leaves the healthy foxes, which escape, to breed. Isn't this natural Selection?
David Akerman, Chippenham

The idea that 'city folk' do not have the right to comment on rural problems such as hunting with hounds is arrogant and contrived. It seems to suggest that we have do not have that right to comment on, or try to prevent wrong doings on communities other than our own. No comment on hunting with hounds, no comment on Northern Ireland, no comment on Sierra Leone etc.
Marcus Primhak, Cardiff

Tearing up the countryside wearing up to 10,000 worth of riding gear with a pack of hounds doesn't seem like the best form of pest control to me. Why don't the pro-hunters admit that they enjoy their mounted arrogance in a sport that is not accessible too most? They can carry on as much as they like chasing a smelly rag - just don't harm any animals in the process.
Neil Paterson, Worcester

To kill for food is, perhaps, a necessity. To kill for 'sport' is, undoubtedly, an obscenity. Social history clearly shows there is no convergence of this civilising principle.
G. Keith Robotham, Cheltenham

Having read the various comments of people in favour of fox hunting, I am surprised at how few of them have managed to put forward an adequate reason to justify their actions. Excuses such as wanting to learn to ride, and claiming the right to kill foxes just because you live in the countryside, are totally unconvincing. We too have foxes in our urban areas, but do NOT find the need to persecute them for fun.
Henry, Slough

I was the gentleman who spoke last, referring to the issue as "trivial". What I should have said is that health, education, jobs and taxes are the issues which should concern Government and a sensible Government should not get involved in a divisive peripheral issue like fox hunting. Besides, everybody knows a fox hunting ban will be thrown out by the Lords and I can guarantee the Government will not use the Parliament Act to force it through, so just what is all this posturing in aid of? Oh, I know - internal Labour Party politics.
Richard Marriott, Redditch

Why is this issue taking up so much time? This government has far bigger issues to deal with. Rather than opening a divide between the Islington elite and was it considered the Country Bumpkins. This Government is rapidly becoming the unspeakable in pursuit of the electorate. Who sadly like the cunning fox are becoming more elusive.
Tamara Perree, London

I would like to congratulate the Government on their proposal to ban hunting with dogs. Hunting with dogs is not "sport" or "pest control" but a sick activity enjoyed by a minority of sadistic people. A ban is long overdue.
Irene Boyne, Aberdeen

I think its about time we had some priorities put back into this debate. There is such hypocrisy. Why is parliament so keen to stop fox hunting whilst at the same time:
(i) Allowing GM experimentation that could destroy the entire ecology of the planet?
(ii) Selling arms to regimes who will use them to kill children?
Alister McClure, London

Why did they talk out Mike Foster's bill last year when, according to their own beliefs the majority of Labour members, including Tony Blair, are totally behind a ban? Is it because of the Countryside Alliance march, and if so, will they always put their principles on hold in the face of any opposition? The Burns enquiry was a cop-out.
Simon, East Grinstead

I have no objection to Fox Hunting as such, although I do believe that allowing dogs to rip a fox apart is cruel. Why not allow hunting with muzzled dogs. If it is necessary to cull foxes, let the gamekeepers or licenced humane hunters do that. This way the 'sport' and jobs are maintained without savagery and excess fox populations are culled. It's common sense really.
Paul Metcalfe, Southend on Sea

It is a shame that the country way of life is in the process of being changed by people who in the main do not understand or live in the country. There is more at stake than banning hunting with hounds. It is another example of correctness being more important than centuries of traditions and a way of live for thousands of people.
Tim Wallis, Nutley, East Sussex

Whilst neither for nor against hunting I do believe strongly that to ban it is an infringement of an individual's rights of freedom/action. At best this can be described as being cynical, at worst an abuse of the powers entrusted to them.
Mike Lithgow, Farringdon

Nick Brown demonstrated clearly his anthropomorphic view of the animal kingdom by claiming the emotion of terror for foxes. There is no evidence of this. So here we have a Minister of State who is clearly going to use his free vote based on a flawed premise.
Nick Onslow, Canterbury

I get so angry when I hear people defending hunting with hounds. I am sorry that some people will lose their jobs, but if my job involved the torture and murder of any of God's creatures I would not want such a job.
Shirley Fielden, Southend On Sea

Not one fox will be saved by a ban on hunting but 12,000 hounds will have to be put down. Is Emma Inglis going to volunteer to do this?
Mark Nicholls, Hastingleigh, Kent

What really irritates me is that you surround this activity with pomp and ceremony and take such obvious ENJOYMENT from chasing and murdering a wild animal. It is making into a sport which is abhorrent.
Ronnie Watson, Manchester

Do the panel think that if hunting was a pursuit of the working classes that it would have been banned decades ago? Surely, it is because it is a leisure activity of the privileged that it still exists.
Adele Oddy, Barnsley

I believe as do the majority of the public, that fox hunting - although immoral - is no worse than fishing, or the slaughter of animals for meat.
Alastair Davey, Huntly, Scotland

I notice one of the main pro-hunting arguments is the loss of jobs, but I don't remember the hunting fraternity complaining and supporting the hundreds of thousands of shipbuilders, miners and steelworkers who lost their jobs through 18 years of Tory Government.
Steven Leicester, Sheffield

I see the countryside as belonging to the whole of the UK, not just those who live and work in it. Similarly I assume the same vociferous part of the audience hold shares in urban conglomerations and therefore ultimately have a say in the shape of the urban environment as well as visiting urbanised areas. Or would they not be seen dead in such places?
Susan Simpson, Elgin

Burns says the welfare of foxes 'is compromised' when it is hunted. What on earth happens to the welfare of a bullock when it is slaughtered to feed us? Is there any difference between entertaining friends to dinner and serving steak and going out to hunt foxes? No. In both cases we compromise the welfare of the animal.
Shona Nicholls, Kent

Jackie Ballard demonstrated arrogance of a magnitude one would usually associated with the Labour government. To suggest that the audience member who stands to lose his job (and the 6 - 8,000 like him) should be grateful to have 2 years to prepare for the loss of his livelihood is dismissive, complacent and, as I said, arrogant in the extreme.
Jolyon Smith, St Neots, Cambs

The Burns Committee inquiry has cost many thousands. It was designed to establish the FACTS about hunting. It was specifically told by Jack Straw NOT to decide if hunting was cruel or if it should be banned nor on moral or ethical considerations. Why then do so may of the anti-hunting lobby consistently insist in attributing to Burns things he did not say.
Len Schwaiger, Hartfield, East Sussex

The proposed ban on hunting is not a jobs issue; it is an animal welfare issue. The only difference here is that fox hunting, unlike coal mining or steel manufacturing, is an upper class pursuit whose followers have friends in high places. The countryside is not special. Other communities have to deal with far larger and more damaging job losses without any sympathy whatsoever from Michael Howard's party.
Mark Whitaker, Manchester

Matthew, from Wokingham; You are so right that it is a matter of people not realising what the countryside is about. They get these ignorant thoughts from silly documentaries about the poor cuddly fox. Why can't the BBC make a documentary about the real people of the countryside.
Fleur Southway, Holland

I lived in the countryside from birth until my mid twenties, I now live in a semi-rural area. Baroness Mallalieu kept asking Jackie Ballard if she had been to a stag hunt I think the Baroness meant to imply that if Jackie had not seen a stag hunt first hand that she could not say if it were cruel or not. Society says that putting a cat in a microwave to kill it is cruel - one does not need to see this act first hand to know that it is cruel that is why people have been sent to prison for such acts!
Dan Neale, Canterbury

Forget those unimaginative and unintelligent farmers and others who care more for money then what is morally correct. The past time of fox hunting is completely barbaric and to participate in such an activity is a declaration of small mindedness and stupidity! We must stop it before we can move on as a society!
Daniel Whitehead, Gosport

It concerns me that some of the people that have key roles in the running of our country find it so hard to see what is so obviously cruel with the inhumane way the hunt kills its prey. It is not a question of politics it is simply a question of what is right and what wrong.
Adam Rush, Sandhurst

A small minority of the population want a ban. A larger minority of the population are against a ban. The vast majority of the population couldn't care less either way.
S Wilson, Sunderland

Isn't it the case that 'we' just don't want to SEE foxes being killed? (Death is becoming increasingly sanitised whenever we encounter it.) Hunting's great sin is that it is a public activity. As someone who lives on a farm, I am convinced that the suffering of foxes will not change one iota if a ban were enforced. I truly believe that with its demise, the public activity of hunting will be replaced with an increase in 'invisible' control.
Dan , Oxford

We have all killed a fly with a spray or swat because it's a pest so why not kill foxes by hunting? Hunting is the best method - it's selective and adds to the rural economy which means it better for the fox population on a large scale.
Eddie Akerman, Wilts. Aged 15

Isn't hunting supposed to be a sport? And is sport not supposed to be fair? Here is my suggestion: Give the fox a chance. Do the hunting only with one dog per fox.
Holger Laux, Bristol

What is the nature of hunting, when hunters on their first kill are blooded? This has nothing to do with killing vermin, but in human pleasure. There are more effective ways of destroying vermin, rather than chasing an animal to exhaustion.
Sian Delahaye, Bristol

So if hunting goes so does a way of life? Good then we can say good riddance to it like we did slavery and sending children up chimneys.
John Elson, Nottingham

The purpose of the Burns Report was to 'inform the debate'. 52.2 million people in the UK (1997). 35,203 'hits' on the Inquiry website. Figure it out - a lot of people are quoting it, but few have read it.
Louise, UK

Has anyone thought, if fox hunting is banned, what would become of the 'thousands' of fox-hounds currently in use around the country. ALL or most of these dogs will have to be put down - and if they are in their 'thousands' then the overall situation would be that far more fox hounds would lose their life to a veterinarian over a period than foxes chased and caught by them over a considerably longer period.
Dave Bishop, Exmonth

I am a blacksmith's son and grew up in rural Lincolnshire. The fox hunting debate has very little to do with the cruelty, but everything to do with the gentry riding roughshod over the peasants.
Malcolm Brown, Lincoln

I say to all those people who say, "if there is a ban what will happen to my income?" Then CHANGE - surely the shipbuilders and miners had much greater cause and argument. Any harm to animals should be banned.
Alison Boyd, Glasgow

Our Minister of Agriculture keeps saying the Government is neutral. Why therefore is he so obviously opposed to hunting with no thought as to the industry which he should be supporting. I don't hunt at the moment, but can see what devastation to a rural way of life a ban would create.
Greves, UK

Those that suggest that hunts can convert to drag hunting have to realise that at present farmers grant permission for hunts to use their land because they provide a service. Once that service is gone the job losses and destruction of hounds will follow. Drag hunting is not a viable option.
Gary Jones, Welshpool

Clearly, as this debate progresses, it is a matter of town verses country. Town dweller don't like the thought of any animal being killed before it appears in cellophane in the supermarket. Food is a cruel business.
Iain Crockatt, Aylesbury

Why is the hunting community any different to the mining communities who have suffered greatly in this country and yet found new skills and re-established their lives and if needs be, elsewhere.
Stuart Lomas, Manchester

Do the pro hunting members of the panel really not see that the difference between fox hunting, stag hunting, haring, and fishing and shooting is the difference between torment and a clean kill.
Elizabeth Boyd Harvey, Stoke on Trent

The fact is hunting by hounds IS cruel. The arguments for and against are both very strong and shooting seems the only logical compromise!
Dominic Long, Long Sutton, Lincs

Sustainability and moderation are words which all members of society should think about. It's not about animals it's about perceived class. With the advent of the national minimum wage we all have the ability to live in a class less society. Live and let live
Henry Wild, Lancaster

Drag-hunting is not providing an alternative to foxhunting in any way, rather it functions very effectively in combination with foxhunting. Furthermore, the size of the country required by a drag hunt is 5 times that of a foxhunt. Therefore, the idea that foxhunts can readily convert to draghunting is simply not realistic.
Nicholas Page, Preston St, Mary

It is far easier to stop other people from hunting, than it is to actually stop yourself from the cruelty you partake in every day, by eating meat from animals killed in abattoirs and bred in confined conditions. It is no longer necessary to eat meat, so I challenge everyone arguing for a ban on fox hunting to become vegetarians. No, that would be too difficult wouldn't it?
Phil Crowson, London

This is a matter of civil liberty for a minority group. Yes, we enjoy hunting - it also teaches the riders to ride. There are now so few things a person can do to enjoy themselves and take bit of a risk in life. Let the government spend their time and money on more important matters for the WHOLE country, such as the NHS.
Angela, Hemel Hempstead

If there is a total ban on hunting with dogs the dogs will have to be destroyed, they cannot be used as pets. Probably more dogs will be killed in one year than the hunt has killed foxes in 50 years. Tell me which is the most cruel.
Keith Wightman, Kelso

The argument that a ban on foxhunting will cost 800 jobs and therefore it should be left alone is ridiculous. What about the mining, steelworks, shipbuilding and other industries! Entire towns and communities have been destroyed because of "market forces" which in my opinion is a far weaker argument than "because it's not fair".
Remi Suzan, Hoddesdon

Coming from a rural area I can understand the need for controlling foxes. What I cannot understand is how it is justified that in this day and age we can allow it to continue in its current barbaric form. It has to be banned, we would not allow such cruelty to be undertaken in any other area of our society so how can it be justified because it simply falls under a 'rural way of life'?
Steven, Worcestershire

Some MPs and Lords are threatening to sabotage any future debate and legislation on hunting with dogs. It can't be right on an issue where the majority of the public and MPs now support a ban. Where is their conscience?
Martin Evans, Bristol

It has been suggested that only MPs from English constituencies should be able to vote on matters relating solely to England. Using this principle should it be that only MPs from rural areas should vote on whether hunting should be banned.
Elwyn Parry, Liverpool

I have two points I would like to raise:
1) The Burns report does not include the Scott Henderson enquiry - launched under Labour in 1949 - why is this?
2) If foxes are vermin, why do we not have this issue for all other types of animals which are socially acceptable to kill, i.e.: rats, wasps, mosquitoes? Is this solely a debate about the people who enjoy the ride or is it the fact that people do not like to see the 'cute and cuddly' fox destroyed by people who live in the country side and have more respect for the wildlife than those on the outside looking in?
Matthew, Wokingham

At last the government is fulfilling its promise. We have waited too long already for a ban on the cruel sport of hunting with dogs. Parliament has already made its view clear, as has the British population through numerous opinion polls. Hunting is cruel and has no place in the new century.
J Elliott, UK

When an animal such as the fox, is shown to have high levels of stress when it is hunted, surely this simply indicates that its biological defences for self preservation are working. Why else do we call the fox, cunning? This being the case - are we now going to see all jobs which have high levels of stress, as the report indicates is not considered to be healthy, also banned ?
John Kecsmar, UK

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