Mark Byford

What next for the future of the BBC?

The BBC's Acting Director-General, Mark Byford, spoke to Newsnight.

GAVIN ESLER:
I am joined now by the Acting Director-General of the BBC, Mark Byford. Mr Byford, are you glad Andrew Gilligan has gone?

MARK BYFORD
I recognise it's an important development in a very turbulent week tonight. I know Andrew Gilligan has been through a very difficult period. That's all I will say on the matter.

GAVIN ESLER:
But it would have been very odd if the BBC had kept Gilligan and lost Greg Dyke, wouldn't it?

MARK BYFORD
That's all I will say on that matter regarding Andrew Gilligan. He has resigned. It's been a very difficult period for him. I have other things to say.

GAVIN ESLER:
Will there be other resignations? Lord Hutton criticised the BBC from the very top to the bottom, this entire chain of editorial command. If there are other people in the chain of command, will other people go?

MARK BYFORD
The chairman of the BBC has resigned, the Director-General of the BBC has resigned, the reporter at the heart of the story has resigned. I have made it clear today that there is a process that will be underway, a due process involving others that were involved in the inquiry and in the story. That will be led by myself with my executive committee colleague, Stephen Dando. We will do that as speedily as possible. We have a duty of care to all employees in the BBC, including those, and I think the employees, and indeed the audience, would not expect me to comment in detail about individuals while that process is underway. Clearly, I am not going to.

GAVIN ESLER:
OK. So you don't rule out the possibility other people could resign, but you are hoping, as I understand your comments today, to draw a line under the blood-letting within the BBC. Is that fair?

MARK BYFORD
The BBC this week has faced the resignation of the Chairman, the resignation of the Director-General, the resignation of that reporter. Now there is still a process going on involving others. It will be done as speedily as possible, and that's all I can say. Mr Gilligan said in his parting statement tonight that this Hutton report "casts a chill over all journalism, not just the BBC's." Do you agree?

MARK BYFORD
I think the thing for the Hutton Report itself is that the BBC has got to accept that Lord Hutton has published its findings, that the BBC has said that it recognises it's made mistakes, and we also recognise now that Lord Hutton's report is a matter of some difference of opinions. The BBC will debate those opinions, but the BBC itself won't have a view on the Hutton Report itself. What it will have a view on is that the BBC itself did make some mistakes - Lord Hutton criticised the BBC. We are going to learn from those mistakes and move forward.

GAVIN ESLER:
It's not splitting hairs to ask you if the BBC accepts the Hutton Report in its entirety?

MARK BYFORD
The BBC accepts that Lord Hutton has published his report, and the BBC accepts, it's not splitting hairs - I am just telling you our position. Our position is that the BBC accepts that it has made mistakes and that it must learn from them. It also accepts that Lord Hutton's published his findings, on all the airwaves of the BBC people are debating those findings and people contributed, but the BBC itself is not going to say what it has a view on about Lord Hutton's findings. It's just going to get on now, learn from its errors and move forward.

GAVIN ESLER:
Forgive me. I am puzzled by this. Why can't you say, "Yes, we do accept the Hutton Report," or even, "We accept it as it applies to the BBC and perhaps we have reservations about what he said to the government" why can't you say that with absolute clarity?

MARK BYFORD
Well, I will try to be as clear as I possibly can, understanding that you want clarity. The BBC must accept that Lord Hutton has published his findings and was critical of the BBC. It must accept that it made mistakes, and it must accept that it's got to learn from them. It must also recognise that there's lots of different views about Lord Hutton's report, and it's going to allow people to share those. But, itself, what it's going to accept is the errors it's made and move forward.

GAVIN ESLER:
So, in terms of what the Hutton Report said about the government, which was effectively, in all but a very minor matter, to clear the government of blame, you are not prepared to say you accept that?

MARK BYFORD
I am going to say that the BBC will report it faithfully, accurately, and allow debate about it.

GAVIN ESLER:
Ok. But you see why I am asking this, because Alastair Campbell, among others this week, has suggested the BBC has been somewhat grudging. It's been like pulling teeth to get apologies out of the BBC, to get the BBC to apologise, which in his view and the view of some other people, should have been done way back in May and June last year. You can see why it might seem to some people that you are again being grudging tonight in not accepting the report in its entirety?

MARK BYFORD
I am not being grudging at all. I am absolutely accepting that Lord Hutton has published his findings. An inquiry was set up, the BBC took part in that along with other parties. It accepted that an inquiry was going to take place. It accepted that the findings would be published. It's seen those findings and it's recognised that there are criticisms of us and we are going to learn from them.

GAVIN ESLER:
You were at Lord Ryder's side, the acting chairman of the Governors, when he made an apology yesterday in saying he has no hesitation in apologising unreservedly for our errors. Greg Dyke and then Gavyn Davies apologised. What was the point of that further apology, which some have characterised as grovelling?

MARK BYFORD
Greg Dyke apologised, and I think it's fair to say that, when Lord Ryder then issued his statement, he wanted to be unequivocal on behalf of the Governors and on behalf of the BBC, that we wanted to apologise for the errors that we had made. That is what the BBC stands by. Not just Lord Ryder, his fellow governors and the BBC's executive committee, and the BBC. I accept that statement fully.

GAVIN ESLER:
But does the apology, therefore, mean, as the government appears to be interpreting it, that it is a withdrawal of the allegations made by Andrew Gilligan on 29 May last year?

MARK BYFORD
It is a recognition that the BBC made errors. It must apologise for them, learn about the errors it's made and move on.

GAVIN ESLER:
But is it an apology for "sexing-up the dossier"? Is it an apology for that allegation?

MARK BYFORD
You have played that statement again tonight, you have asked for clarity and I am trying to give it in as best a way as I can. It says there, very clearly, that we have apologised for our errors. That is what we've done.

GAVIN ESLER:
But, again, you can see why I am not splitting hairs. Gilligan tonight said, "Most of my story was right. The government did sex up the dossier." I am simply trying to establish whether that apology means everything Gilligan said was wrong, just the 6.07 broadcast was wrong - anything that anybody might have taken offence at was wrong. What exactly was the apology for?

MARK BYFORD
The BBC made mistakes. OK? It made mistakes. Andrew Gilligan himself has said - and he has said it again in that statement tonight, as he said it during the inquiry - that even within the 6.07 report he made mistakes. We are now saying we agree, we reiterate what we said at the inquiry and since. We have made mistakes. We are going to learn from them and we are apologising for them.

GAVIN ESLER:
Was one of the mistakes, though, to suggest that the government sexed up the dossier?

MARK BYFORD
One of the mistakes that Andrew Gilligan has said in his statement was a mistake was about "knowingly". I am saying to you tonight that we ourselves absolutely accept that there are lessons to learn, and seriously, I am trying to be as clear as possible and I am going to say again, we are apologising for the errors. Now we are going to learn the lessons.

GAVIN ESLER:
You can see why it was Sir David Attenborough - a former BBC executive as well as a programme maker now - called the apology "distressing, abject, servile and grovelling." He suggested that it would damage the BBC's reputation around the world, which I know is something that you care about because you used to lead the World Service.

MARK BYFORD
Trust is the foundation of the BBC, and definitely its journalism. What audiences, both in the United Kingdom and around the world, expect of the BBC is independence from government and any political or commercial pressure. That is what they will get. Let me finish. They will get that. They accept accurate, fair, objective, impartial journalism. That is what they will get during my leadership, with all my colleagues. But the BBC, what they will also get is that, if and when we make mistakes, if and when we do that, we are going to apologise for them, and that's what we've done.

GAVIN ESLER:
But how this is being seen - for example, by the French daily Liberation is, "BBC capitulates to Tony Blair. The BBC might as well have raised the white flag at its headquarters in Portland Place." That's how it's being seen there and in similar fashion around the world?

MARK BYFORD
It's my responsibility now, and challenge, to absolutely emphasise to audiences around the world a confidence in the BBC, that it is absolutely independent of any government pressure, independent of any commercial pressure, clear on its values and its journalism, based on accuracy, fairness and objectivity. Courageous, investigative, reliable journalism. But the absolute key is also that an organisation that is the most trusted organisation in the world will be trusted if, when it makes mistakes, it admits them. That doesn't mean that it has anything to be ashamed about its overall journalism, which is of high quality and distinction, but it is a stronger BBC if when it makes a mistake it can say so.

GAVIN ESLER:
In a word, you are doing this job in an acting capacity. Are you going to apply for it?

MARK BYFORD
You can imagine this week that my primary task is to try and stabilise this organisation, give it confidence and move it forward. That is everything that is on my mind.

GAVIN ESLER:
Mark Byford, thank you very much.

This transcript was produced from the teletext subtitles that are generated live for Newsnight. It has been checked against the programme as broadcast, however Newsnight can accept no responsibility for any factual inaccuracies. We will be happy to correct serious errors.