Pauline Neville Jones

Pauline Neville Jones reacts to the Senate Intelligence Committee report

British Prime Minister, Tony Blair's admission that weapons of mass destruction might never be found in Iraq has come just before an inquiry announces its findings into the UK's handling of intelligence on WMD before the war in Iraq.

Dame Pauline Neville-Jones is a former head of the UK's Joint Intelligence Committee and she has warned the inquiry not to "fudge" the issue. On Friday a congressional inquiry in the United States released a report on the CIA's pre-war intelligence. Who's to blame and should anyone be resigning?

Here are some key quotes from her HARDtalk interview with Tim Sebastian.

BUTLER INQUIRY

Tim Sebastian: Is the Butler report going to be as damning?

Pauline Neville Jones: "I think it's going to be tough."

TS: It should be?

PNJ: "If the errors are as big here and after all I think that there is a gap between what was supposed to have been the case in our assessments in the UK and what appears to have been found on the ground, which is negligible support, yes there is a failure here.

I'm pretty certain that Butler is going to do something else. He's going to compare what I think is likely to be a declared a failure on Iraq with other performance."

TONY BLAIR

Tim Sebastian: Do you think he (Tony Blair) should resign if he got it wrong?

Pauline Neville Jones: "I think that's pretty tough, I'm not going to get into that"

TS: But there's nothing more serious than taking a country to war is there?

PNJ: "No there isn't and of course he is making a distinction between what he genuinely believed and what turns out to be the case so he is at least open to the accusation of incompetence."

TS: Would you judge him incompetent?

PNJ: "I think there has been a systemic failure"

TS: But him personally, the buck stops there doesn't it?

PNJ: "The buck does stop there and I don't think that the political layer in any country can escape the consequences of a systemic failure."

TS: Do you trust the government after this?

PNJ: "I think there is a trust issue now and I think we already see this the trust issue.

That's one of the reasons why it's important, first of all, the Prime Minister does acknowledge he actually got it wrong. Secondly that confidence is restored in the intelligence services."

JOHN SCARLETT

Tim Sebastian - What do you make of the comparisons between the systems? In the US where the intelligence got it wrong and the CIA director is forced to resign.

In Britain the man who sat at the top of the pyramid, your old job, Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee is promoted to head of MI6?

Pauline Neville Jones - There is a real difference here. The head of the CIA is a politically appointed job. So its equivalent of the Minister going?

TS - In one country intelligence failure results in resignation - in another they are rewarded.

PNJ - Absolutely. Lets come to that. There is a difference. Lets turn to our scene. The Minister responsible for the Intelligence Agency is the Prime Minister actually.

That in the sense is the equivalent. Was it right to have appointed anybody to that post, particularly if you were seriously considering John Scarlett before the findings of the Butler Committee?

I think I share the view of those that I thought that - that was unwise.

TS: Even before the Butler findings he's elevated to head of MI6?

PNJ: I think having put him in that position the conclusions of the Butler Committee may bear on whether that is now a sensible thing to do.

TS: So he may have to step down?

PNJ: I'm not going to prejudice it - but if your preoccupation is as it should be the clearing of the reputation of the MI6 and making sure that any of the reforms recommendations that are bound to come from that Committee you do have to ask the question whether somebody whose been deeply involved and possibly criticised in the findings of the Butler Report is regarded as a suitable person to head that up.

TS - If the report damns him he has to go? His credibility will be seriously damaged as head of MI6?

PNJ: It will be. It will be and it damages the Agency. National interest is concerned with the reputation of the Agency.

THIS INTERVIEW CAN BE SEEN ON BBC WORLD AT 1830 AND 2330 GMT ON FRIDAY 9TH JULY 2004 AND AT 2330 ON BBC NEWS 24.

HARDtalk can be seen on BBC World at 03:30 GMT, 08:30 GMT, 11:30 GMT, 15:30 GMT, 18:30 GMT and 23:30 GMT

It can also be seen on BBC News 24 at 04:30 and 23:30