Your comments: Catalonia's arrivals

The prosperous region of Catalonia in Spain has seen an influx of nearly a million new immigrants since 2000.

But Catalonia has recently gained more autonomy and nationalists are worried that immigrants will dilute their fiercely-protected identity.

For Crossing Continents, Marian Hens reported on the struggle the newcomers are facing as they try to settle into their new home.

We asked you if enough was being done to welcome and integrate the new arrivals and if there was more the immigrants could do to make their new lives more successful.

This debate is now closed. Thank you for your comments.

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If you want to start a life somewhere, to settle, make friends, work, earn money, be loved... the first thing to do is to speak their language. It's not a matter of nationalism. It's a matter of common sense. Among the comments here, those that had problems settling in Catalonia are those who didn't realise the basic rule. How do you want to find a job in London if you don't speak English?
Galderic, Barcelona

I moved to Barcelona from Venezuela about nine years ago and lived there for about four years. I never felt discriminated against due to the language and the Catalan integration course was fantastic. After three months I had learnt most of the spoken language and some people didn't even notice I was foreign after four months. A Dutch girl in my course learned also learned it in three months. Not learning Catalan is not an excuse - most of the courses are free, the more languages you learn the more beneficial it becomes for your culture and intelect. No excuses!
Andrea, Manchester

As an American who used to live in London and Barcelona I can assure you that my experiences in assimilating were much more difficult in England (and I'm a native English speaker). Catalans have been defending their society longer than anyone and are more adapt at handling change. One million new people in six years is a lot to handle for any country. Catalonia is a nation without a state, a concept which is often too difficult for many to understand. If Catalonia where indeed a state, this argrument would not exist. We all have the right to protect our language and culture, end of story.
Charles, Los Angeles

Established communities always worry about their ethnic identities, cultures, languages and economic well-being when immigrants enter in large numbers. The trick is for them to learn how to assimilate these newcomers into those norms without becoming xenophobic or racist about it. Can the Catalan province rise to this challenge?
Walter, Miami, Florida

I think they are discriminating against the Spanish language in Catalonia. In my opinion both languages are official, so you can't force anyone to use one of them.
Aurelio de la Puerta, Seville, Spain

Catalan language and identity under threat? I can't believe some people are actually comparing this to what English or British say about their countries. It's not true. Identities are never a static matter, let alone language. All who says the opposite does not know what s/he is talking about and wants to create a bad debate environment.
Montse, London

I am an Andalusian immigrant in Barcelona and I have to say that at the moment my experience here hasn't been good at all. They are very narrow-minded people and if you are walking down the street and ask someone something in Spanish I can bet you that 90% of the times they will answer you in Catalan, which I found very annoying because I have been living here a short time and I don't have a great knowledge of the language.
Jose, Barcelona

There is still prejudice against people who don't speak Catalan Francisco J, Grenada, Spain

I think Catalan politicians don't believe in open societies. Most people can speak Spanish and Catalan, both languages are used daily, but there is still prejudice against people who don't speak Catalan, as if they were a threat to the Catalan identity. But nationalism is still a powerful way to attract voters. Nevertheless, Catalonia has now an Andalusian-born president, Mr Jose Montilla, who receives lessons of Catalan. Spanish contradictions!
Francisco J, Grenada, Spain

Is it that strange not to get a public job for not speaking Catalan in Catalonia? Try to get a public job in any other country without knowing the local language. Why should any country have to justify the use of their own language?
Christina Carol Sharp, Barcelona

I am Catalan, and I can promise you, that Catalan is not going to disappear. All the time politicians are trying to increase measures to protect it and our traditions. That's why we want immigrants to learn Catalan, it's not only for communication, it's to avoid feeling completely invaded by strangers that don't know anything about us and don't try to learn and preserve it.
Geezs, Barcelona

I visited the Balearics a few years ago, armed with some phrase-tape Spanish/Castilian, but found my stumbling attempts to communicate treated with disdain. It didn't take long to work out the problem: I was simply using the wrong language. Now I can muddle through quite happily in Catalan/Mallorquin but often come across immigrants whose attitude is that they are in Spain and therefore need speak only Spanish. I find it frustrating and an insult to the rich culture of the islands - and I'm only a tourist.
Rosslyn, Lancashire

Catalonia shouldn't expect immigrants to speak fluent Catalan and follow the Catalonian traditions as if they were natives. But immigrants should at least speak Spanish when they come to Spain, or English when they go to the UK, mostly for their own benefit! That'll help them integrate and reach the desirable "melting point" in which people live together, mix in the same districts, but keep their own traditions.
Marco, Madrid

The end of positive immigration is over and the new dangerous era has started Zoran Popovic, NY, US

It is so insulting for a host country to have a group of immigrants from a different culture form their own isolated haven, refuse to integrate and then rebel. Immigrants today are very arrogant. People love to twist what democracy and open societies represent. As a foreigner, one has to respect the host country and try to integrate as much as possible. The end of positive immigration is over and the new dangerous era has started. I am an immigrant and I don't go around New York and ask for bagels in Serbian! The least I can do is talk English.
Zoran Popovic, NY, US

I think next time you should send Marian to investigate what a tough time immigrants are having in Denmark having to learn a language spoken only by 5.5 million people. I can't understand how the BBC is paying someone to give such a partial view on this matter. Catalonia is a country in every sense of the word, except that we are not legally recognised at an international level. We should not have to constantly justify our policies to such prejudiced attacks, particularly relating to speaking our language in our country.
Pau Montagut, Manchester

I lived on Majorca for several years until I sold my apartment in July this year and frankly I was more than glad to leave. Catalan was compulsory in all state schools, Catalan history was promoted in schools - and when my son questioned certain facts was called a foreign trouble-maker. All official documents were written in Catalan first and Spanish second if at all. Cafes, bars and restaurants had the menu in Catalan. And it's an island that receives a great deal of its income from tourism. Catalans, in my experience, have a big chip on their shoulder, blame everything on Franco and need to get over it. I found them the cold, unfriendly and the most nationalist people I have ever met.
Sean Dobson, Radcliffe, Lancashire

I feel compelled to reply to Sean Dobson - of course menus are written in Catalan in Mallorca, because that is the native language! I struggle to understand why people refuse to accept that the people of Catalan countries speak a different language to Spain. Does Sean propose that Catalan be banned, to make life easier for tourists? His flippant reference to Franco shows a lack of understanding of what it is to experience an attempt to have your culture exterminated, and to suffer constant criticism and belittling when you attempt to rebuild it. That is something that most English-speaking cultures have not experienced in recent times, and this I think is the root of misunderstandings in this debate.
Lauren, Cheshire

I am English and before I departed to live in Catalonia, I could already speak fluent Spanish. Nevertheless, studying Catalan was a crucial element to settling down and integrating in Barcelona. I think we can all learn from the support structures in place in Catalonia to help foreigners. I find that when I begin to struggle in Catalan, people naturally switched to speak to me in Spanish and I have only ever seen reluctance to speak Spanish in the face of hostility to the Catalan language. In many cities in the world immigration has brought many problems as well as benefits and Barcelona is no exception but can we really claim to put as much effort into helping immigrants learn English and integrate into our society here in England?
Janet, London

I don't think immigrants are a threat to the Catalan identity. Remember, not only Spain but also Europe was founded by different groups of civilisations. Different cultures enrich all aspects of a nation. All sides must have respect for each other to grow.
Diana, Florida, US

Immigrants have been excluded in Quebec like no other place in Canada Robert Racco, Toronto

As a Canadian, this story is all too familiar. We have had to deal with this sort of petty nationalism for nearly two centuries. Quebeckers have used strikingly similar arguments to justify their cultural preservation tactics. Immigrants have been excluded in Quebec like no other place in Canada for decades as their paranoid nationalist leaders and supporters have cleverly crafted various legislation that discriminates against both English speakers and newcomers. The Catalans will ultimately suffer if they too opt to implement similar legislation to protect their sacred and pure culture. Quebec has lagged far behind economically from the rest of Canada as a result of these discriminatory policies.
Robert Racco, Toronto

To Robert Racco: I disagree with what you say about immigration in Quebec. It is classic propaganda of the Anglo-Saxon Canadian majority about the French speaking people of Quebec. first, I have to say that our province is not filled with racist people dreaming for a fascist, independent state. Quebec is multicultural like the rest of Canada (I'm mixed race). I think the Catalans (and any other country or region) can accept immigrants without the fear of losing their national identity. Quebec is not the poorest province in Canada and think about the tens of thousands of French speaking immigrants from Africa, Europe, Vietnam and Lebanon living in Quebec that you seem to forget because they spoke to us before you.
Yannick, Montreal, Canada

I feel compelled to answer to Robert Racco's statement. What he has said is quite false. Yes, Quebec has some immigration policies of its own in addition to Canada's, but there is nothing in the policy that you must be a French speaker. Many immigrants coming to Quebec don't really speak a word of French once arrived. Quebec is a multicultural society that respects the rights of the minorities, even the anglophones! I'm an anglophone immigrant from the US and I have no problem dealing with the government, even in English if I want to test them. But I do recognize that French is the main language, so I put every effort in to learn it in order to be part of the society. I highly disagree that Quebec is disadvantaged economically. Quebec's economy is the second largest in Canada after Ontario and it plays a strong role in a North American economy. Catalonia has every right to promote and protect the status of Catalan as the main language of the nation.
Jack, Montreal, Canada

Any reason seems to be valid in order to justify the use of Catalan as a language. It has always seemed to me that those so-called languages should be maintained for folklore. Who cares if there is one or six million speakers, Europe is trying to minimise, while Catalans and Basques want to be independent. I wonder from who or what. Besides what have those particular cultures given to the world?
Shmuel Andrade, Israel

In reply to Shmuel Andrade from Israel who said: "Catalans and Basques want to be independent. I wonder from who or what." We want to be independent from the Spanish state, that is, to have our own state with representatives in the EU and the UN, to be able to compete in the Olympic Games, and not having to justify what language our children are taught in schools, to give you a few examples. "What have those particular cultures given to the world?" Many things that obviously you have never bothered to find out. Are you implying the world should get rid of "useless" cultures?
Pau Montagut, Manchester

Catalan language is an important part of our identity but not the only one Jaume, Washington DC

I have not listened to the programme but as a Catalan following current affairs there I feel Mr Chaib is an example of how some people try to manipulate the migrants communities proclaiming themselves as their representatives in any kind of dialogue or interaction with society at large. An MP who is the director of an NGO, what about the independence of civil society? Your piece portrays Catalan society and politics as Spanish mainstream and right wing media do. Castillan language is not persecuted nor forbidden in Catalonia and will never be. Catalan language is an important part of our identity but not the only one. No-one is forced to renounce to their identity to be a "good Catalan". There is no document nor physical requirement to be Catalan. If you feel like it, you are one of us and you are most welcome.
Jaume, Washington DC

The harsh reality of the matter is that from whichever country the Muslims come and in whatever state, the Spaniards have - dating back to their expulsion of the Moors - an institutionalised and deeply ingrained dislike and distrust of them. I am not a Muslim myself, and yet even I see this and feel it on a daily basis.
Jon, Granada, Spain

Catalonia has received wave after wave of migrants, particularly from Spain, during the 50s, 60s and 70s. They have been welcomed and integrated peacefully, contributing to Catalonia's economic and social expansion. But now, resources and social services are stretched, housing is a problem, and this is creating ghettoisation of arrivals. While Catalans are happy to welcome everyone, the fact that its population is increasing so rapidly, and that these new arrivals belong to a different religion, culture, and do not have any interest in learning the language, is a recipe for trouble. Do not blame the locals for this. Catalan language and identity is already under threat, and these developments take it to the next critical step. It is logical that Catalans become weary of this.
Roger, London

Catalonia has been built on successive waves of immigration that have successfully integrated Robert, Glasgow

I am a Catalan immigrant, but I can't help to think that your coverage of this issue sounds very pro-Chaib (Labour MP) as if he is some kind of integration hero when he in fact is not. He wants to keep immigrants always classified as immigrants, instead of pursuing full integration as other parties are doing. There are immigrant activists in other parties yet only Mr Chaib seems to have been consulted. You seem to say immigrants are not welcome when in fact it is the complete opposite: Catalonia has been built on successive waves of immigration (as far back as the 14 Century) that have successfully integrated. My parents themselves are immigrants but I am completely bilingual and feel 100% Catalan.
Robert, Glasgow

Excellent programme. I have just returned to the UK after four years living in Barcelona and would certainly agree that immigrants have a tough time there. And I speak as a white, Spanish speaking European. Catalans are keen to maintain their heritage. All school is taught in Catalan for example. Of course Catalonia needs immigrant workers - for jobs paying minimum wage or below, often without a legal contract. And immigrants with qualifications fare no better. Highly qualified Spanish speakers are often passed over, in favour of lower qualified Catalan speakers. When I moved to Barcelona, a neighbour said he too was an immigrant because his parents came from Seville, even though he lived his whole life in Barcelona.
Jim Chester, London

I agree with Jim Chester in London. I am a Spaniard (Basque) myself and could not get a public job in Barcelona because my mother tongue is not Catalan (although I can speak fluent French, English, Italian, Basque and, of course, Spanish as a native, and a little bit of Catalan). I felt outraged but, hey what can you expect from an ultranationalist region? In the medium to long-term Catalonia is losing out on the world and it is starting to show. As a friend of mine says, there is not room in Spain for two big cities and for years Madrid's growth has been far bigger than Barcelona's. And it continues dramatically.
Gorka Gortari, London

Seven million people live in Catalonia of which very few can say they are truly Catalan. Barcelona and the other bigger towns have experienced internal migration from the south and north west from the beginning of the 1900s as people have moved looking for work. This has done more to "dilute the fiercely-protected identity" than the new arrivals. Add to this the steady stream of South Americans and Catalonia has long been a melting pot and all the better for it. Like all experiences of migration there is an initial period of mistrust, resentment and prejudice but time ensures integration, acceptance and long-lasting benefits.
James, London

If someone is desperate to start a new life they should honour the country they have chosen Marjorie, London

Your story demonstrates the lack of respect immigrants have on the receiving country. If someone is desperate to start a new life they should honour the country they have chosen. It is like someone barging into your home saying they do not like your decorations or the way you live and that they want you to conform to their ways! The most important language to communicate with is the language of love. Just showing love of people by trying to pick up on some words of their language can bring a respectful bond. I have been taken into many a locals home on my travels just by showing true interest and desire to learn from my experience of travel.
Marjorie, London

I agree with the above post. When in Rome do as the Romans! I don't know how many times people in Europe have to say that. I'm living in Japan and I live by their rules and respect their customs and rightfully so! Some of the political elite in Europe are spineless cowards who are caving into these people. It has to stop or there will be civil war the way things are going.
Jorge, Tokyo

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