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![]() BBC BREAKFAST WITH FROST
HOSTED BY PETER SISSONS
INTERVIEW
SIR EDWARD FORD, GRAHAM TURNER and BEN PIMLOTT JULY 30TH, 2000 Please note "BBC Breakfast with Frost" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used
PETER SISSONS [FILM CLIP]
PETER SISSONS
SIR EDWARD FORD
PETER SISSONS GRAHAM TURNER I think she's a very tough lady. She can be really, and her friends would say this, she can be quite ruthless, when the issues are very strong. I mean the whole business of the future of the monarchy, her husband coming to a throne he didn't want, I think she had to be very, very tough in those days. So there is an enormous toughness there, there's no question about that. But in private the things that people say to you is that she is enormous fun. She just helps people enjoy themselves, and I think that's one of the things, in fact, that makes her not just the nation's granny, but the nation's favourite granny. Because not all the royals are fun - let's face it - but she is fun.
PETER SISSONS BEN PIMLOTT Well, as Sir Edward says, massively. I mean it completely changed her life from being, not a private person, but one who was in the sort of second division of royal consorts, to being somebody who was absolutely centre stage. And of course within three years Britain was at war, and so the ruling, reigning royal couple had ah enormous importance, not just to Britain, but all over what was then the British Empire and British Commonwealth. So it completely transformed her life, it was not something that she could have expected or, or did expect.
PETER SISSONS BEN PIMLOTT Well I ¿
PETER SISSONS BEN PIMLOTT I mean don't know, I mean who knows what goes on in people's hearts.
PETER SISSONS BEN PIMLOTT There's obviously been a load of television coverage about, you know, the feud and all that sort of stuff. I think there's relatively little evidence of that as a sort of dominating factor. I think that, that, the truth was that the Windsors were out of the picture, she was very much in the picture, and that was what the centre - I think there's a key point about her that should, should be remembered that although she's today seen as being the essence of royalty, of course she's not actually royal herself. She's an aristocrat, a Scottish aristocrat, and she came from outside, she married into the royal family - in the way that Princess Diana did, though from a rather different, perhaps rather a stronger ¿.
PETER SISSONS GRAHAM TURNER Yes indeed they do. BEN PIMLOTT Indeed, but I think - it was rather interesting, somebody once put to me that she came, the difference between her and Princess Diana is - or Diana Spencer - is that she came from a Tory family with traditions of loyalty to the monarchy, whereas Diana came from a Whig, Whig family, which was much more individualistic - as you say - rather looked down on the Hanoverians ¿ dynasty. I don't know if there's much in that but there's certainly, there's great devotion to royalty there, but devotion coming from an, an aristocratic origin more than a royal one.
PETER SISSONS GRAHAM TURNER There's a, there's a real point about the Duchess of Windsor. I don't think there's any doubt that the Queen Mother wanted to see her off in a big way, but in the last five years of the Duchess of Windsor's life, when she was bedridden and heart complaints of all kinds, the Queen actually send the Dean of Windsor, Michael Mann, to Paris, every six months or so, just to make sure the old lady was being reasonably well looked after. Now that was the Queen's initiative, but it's quite interesting that the Queen Mother would have known about that initiative, and approved of it privately. So that in a sense whether she'd forgiven the Duchess of Windsor or not, at least there was some effort to be kind at the end.
PETER SISSONS
SIR EDWARD FORD
PETER SISSONS
SIR EDWARD FORD
PETER SISSONS
SIR EDWARD FORD
PETER SISSONS BEN PIMLOTT Yes I do very much and I think I, I saw that programme and I thought that that was very much overstated. I think if you turn it round the other way and say it might be very unconstitutional if the king and queen had refused to come out on the balcony, with Neville Chamberlain. I think it's so anachronistic, I mean you say retrospectively there was an alternative point of view, but he was very much expressing the consensus - there was a kind of cross party relief, at that time. I mean it's fair, the king and queen, concern, there's an interesting contract between, I think in private they did express political views, but they were very, very careful about not expressing political views in public. And I don't think anyone's ever, certainly at the time, ever criticised them for taking any political position.
PETER SISSONS
GRAHAM TURNER
Oh colossal. Absolutely colossal. I mean for, for quite a time she really thought she'd just leave public life altogether. She'd lost all her home, she'd lost her role in the national life, she'd really lost everything, as well as her husband - something she's never fully got over! And it's quite interesting when, when, when the Queen Mother drove up to Clarence House, while the present Queen was still living there, the present Queen said to one of her aides who was standing there
PETER SISSONS SIR EDWARD FORD Well she, obviously she was absolutely desolated for a time. And it's always said that it was largely a, a book of, an anthology sent to her by Edith Sitwell that was, that prompted her to take up life again and have, have ¿ or her own role, And as you saw the other day at the pageant, she is connected or, with over 300 institutions, from the Sandringham Women's Institute to the Cinque Ports or London University, and she's made a great life of her own.
PETER SISSONS BEN PIMLOTT Well there's the famous squidgy tape which has Diana saying something about the Queen Mother looking at her. I, I really don't know, I mean she was a very old - old lady - by that stage, and I don't they'd a great deal to do with each other. However I think there is a similarity, they were both daughters of earls, and in both cases in a sense marrying into the royal family was a career choice. I mean it was not just, you know, a love match. It was a decision to go into a very difference kind of life. And I think that they both - it's often said - they both had star quality. They both, as you say, knew where the cameras were and they, they enjoyed that. And although Princess, um, the Princess of Wales, obviously had great difficulties, great problems, there's no question but that she enjoyed being in the limelight, or anyway ambivalent about it but then it, there was a real enjoyment and the same was true of the Queen Mother, I mean all throughout her life, even before she became Queen, you can see in the, in the film footage, how much she enjoyed being centre of attention and how naturally she felt ¿ she, she was a film star.
PETER SISSONS GRAHAM TURNER Oh I think she always took Charles' side. I mean Charles doesn't easily talk to his own parents about these things, so it was on, on the Queen Mother's shoulder that he wept. And in her he confided. And I just - I think the Queen Mother was probably one of the early ones who had grave doubts about Diana, and, and certainly supported Charle, Charles, all the way - I mean what, what he felt, she felt. She was always wholly on his side. And I think the key difference between Diana and the Queen Mother is they came from very different homes. Diana came from a divided home, the Queen Mother came from an extremely solid home. And I think the, the difference showed itself in their lives, although some of their talents were quite similar.
PETER SISSONS BEN PIMLOTT Well I think critically she had a great deal to do with it after 1936 and I think a, a sort of great historic role, in a sense was that,. when this very, very diffident, very unsure, stammering, introverted monarch came to the throne in a, in a situation of constitutional crisis, and many people wondered whether he could carry on, whether indeed he'd even get through his coronation service, she was there in the background as a very strong, outgoing, publicly loved, very beautiful figure, you know, it comes through ¿ she carried him through. And I think that that, that that was critical. I think she's also been an enormous support to the Queen, and as a kind of figurehead beyond criticism, doing the very difficult times in the last ten or 15 years, I think she's extremely important. I think that, you know, the monarchy, as an institution, has a great deal to thank her for, and of course the nation.
PETER SISSONS
SIR EDWARD FORD
PETER SISSONS GRAHAM TURNER Not at all, no, no, she can take quite a lot. But I mean she, she's been known to have three triple gins and dubonnets before lunch, wine during lunch, and still walk absolutely straight after lunch. So there certainly is that side to her, and she's an amazing person for parties, for weekend parties, all through the autumn at, at Balmoral, the Castle of ¿, the summer, the racing parties and so on. I mean, and she is, there's no doubt about it, whatever negative things one might say, she's certainly a tremendous hostess - there's no question about that.
PETER SISSONS In a moment I'll be talking to the Culture Secretary, Chris Smith, and there's much to get through with him as well - the government finally off loads the dome, the ITV companies move into a new era and the Press Complaints Commission gets called into action again this weekend by the Prime Minister. Before that, however, a reminder of the Breakfast with Frost website where you can check details of this programme and precisely what our guests have been saying anytime. [FILM CLIPS] ENDS |
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