Peace process

On Sunday, 28 November, 2004, Sir David Frost interviewed Gerry Adams, MP, Sinn Féin

Please note "BBC Breakfast with Frost" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

Gerry Adams, MP, Sinn Féin

DAVID FROST: It's now more than two years since the power sharing agreement in Northern Ireland broke down, and the Assembly was of course suspended.

Big summit in Kent last month with the British and Irish Prime Ministers and all the key players from Northern Ireland edged nearer to a deal but failed to reach agreement between the two largest parties, the DUP and Sinn Fein.

Now President Bush has intervened, making contact with Ian Paisley and planning to talk to Gerry Adams too.

And the Sinn Fein president is in our Belfast studio, where it's only Breakfast with Frost on the line at this particular point, but you haven't had the call from President Bush yet, have you?

GERRY ADAMS: No, and I haven't had breakfast with Frost either David, but good morning to you. I think the big question around, certainly around these parts, in relation as to whether we can get a deal done, is whether Ian Paisley is prepared to embrace the principles of the Good Friday Agreement, because that's one thing that we and President Bush and the rest of us have in common, is that the Good Friday Agreement is the template.

And you're right to say that it's two years since the Assembly was suspended, and it should not have been suspended. It's seven years almost since the Good Friday Agreement so it's about time that sense prevailed and that the essence of this Agreement of working the power sharing arrangements, working with other people, working the all Ireland structure, it's about time that became the way forward.

DAVID FROST: In the course of these negotiations over the past few weeks, back to Kent and so on. Have you and Ian Paisley actually held a conversation?

GERRY ADAMS: Well I'm prepared to talk to Ian Paisley any time. It's he who refuses to talk to us and furthermore he has issued a public dictat that any member of his party who talks to Sinn Fein will be dismissed from the party. Now, we can't get an agreement, even despite the refusal of Ian Paisley to talk.

But we would get an agreement much more quickly, I mean we'd get an agreement which actually reflected everybody's concerns if that was set to one side. It's ridiculous. And let me say, Ian Paisley's party have no problem talking to illegal outlawed armed organisations on the Unionist side, and indeed have no problem talking to Sinn Fein in city councils and at times in TV studios.

So there's a tactical position, this isn't a position of principle for them, there's a tactical position. And, you know, that gives you I think some sense of the difficulties that we're trying to resolve at this time.

DAVID FROST: Yes. But nevertheless, everybody is saying this is as close as you've been and the government's gone and say it's now or never and this is an historical opportunity and so on. If you are closer than ever at this moment, what are the sticking points? Is the major one the question of visible decommissioning?

GERRY ADAMS: Well it shouldn't be. The reality is under the Good Friday Agreement there is a Commission. The Commission is responsible for verifying and overseeing the putting of arms beyond use, or the decommissioning of arms.

The IRA is the only organisation, and this has caused a huge difficulty for many Republicans and Nationalists, to actually engage with that international independent decommissioning body. So, I mean, why can't it be held up as the way, as the way forward. That is essentially a part of the Agreement.

No the sticking point is what I said in my opening remarks. The sticking point is that the element of Unionism which is represented by the DUP, and which is in the ascendancy in the leadership of Unionism at this time, has set its face against this agreement.

And therefore there's a very long journey to be undertaken by Dr. Paisley in that he has to embrace concepts. Because there's no question that Ian Paisley would do a deal, but he wants to do a deal on his terms. And he has to do a deal on terms which are acceptable to the rest of us.

And another difficulty I find, just you know, even in my own constituency, is that people are hugely sceptical that Ian Paisley will do a deal. Now I think he will do a deal. But I think there's a responsibility on the British government to press ahead with the Irish government on all the outstanding aspects of the agreement. And we in Sinn Fein set ourselves two very clear objectives.

One is to do a deal with the DUP, and two is to ensure that that is bedded and that the governments put their propositions firmly in the fundamentals of the Good Friday Agreement. And if the DUP do not come on board, because it is too long to be waiting for what are essentially very modest entitlements. If the DUP do not come on board then the governments have to press ahead.

DAVID FROST: And if in fact the situation is that the IRA as such is disbanded. Does the Paisley suggestion that they could become like an old boys' club - that sounds as though he's moved a bit there - to allow that they be anything and say that they might give him honorary membership?

It sounds as though things are getting closer than they were, even though you probably would have thought Ian Paisley's vote in the last election was the worst news, at least if he agrees to something he could make it stick, couldn't he?

GERRY ADAMS: Well he could. And, you know, we're positive about all of this although many Republicans find some of Ian's remarks quite offensive. Some of his colleagues talked about gangsters and gangsterism. And you know, I made the point that is you want something of people it's useful to at least be civil and to be using temperate language in so doing.

And you know people will remember the forty years of Paisleyism and the various third forces and Ulster resistance and armed groups which he established in that period. So there is a big challenge for the DUP. There's also a big challenge for Sinn Fein and for Republicans. I think we're up for that challenge. I think we are up for the arguments which will undoubtedly continue within broadly nationalist Ireland about all of this.

And the reason we're up for it is because we want change, we want to be problem-solvers. We want to be agents of change and, you know, Ian Paisley won't talk to me and I don't know if he's watching this programme but let me assure him that the type of deal that we want is a fair deal also. And that means for everyone who lives on this island and it's especially about the future.

It isn't about what's happened in the past, it's about making sure that the past isn't repeated, and that we go forward in a future based on equality, based in equity, based on justice. We live on small island, there are only 5 million of us live on this island and it's based upon the Good Friday Agreement structures for an all-Ireland future. That's what we have to get down to, and that's what we have to knuckle down to.

DAVID FROST: Right, and one just last brief question. If there is a deal in the next few days could you see a situation where we have Peter Robinson as first minister and your Martin McGuinness as deputy, is that possible?

GERRY ADAMS: Well I don't who the DUP would nominate, but yes, part of the deal and perhaps the most visible aspect of the deal is that you will have a DUP first minister, as they're entitled to, and a Sinn Fein deputy first minister as part of a joined up office of governance of this part of the island.

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NB: this transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.

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