Colonel Tim Spicer on Private security in Iraq

On Sunday, 3, October 2004, Sir David Frost interviewed Colonel Tim Spicer, Private security in Iraq.

Please note "BBC Breakfast with Frost" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

Colonel Tim Spicer on Private security in Iraq.

DAVID FROST: Colonel Tim Spicer hit the headlines a few years ago during the "arms to Africa" affair, involving his old company Sandline.

But Colonel Spicer now has developed a thriving business in private security and he recently won a multi-million pound contract to provide protection to those trying to rebuild the infrastructure of Iraq - contracts, reputably worth hundreds of millions of dollars - but the job is a difficult one.

There was another huge bomb attack in Baghdad during this week and the kidnapping, of course, of Kenneth Bigley shows how dangerous it is for foreign workers in Iraq. Well Tim Spicer is with me now, Tim good morning.

TIM SPICER: Good morning.

DAVID FROST: Congratulations on this assignment but at the same time it is so difficult isn't it? I mean you've probably got a better view than almost any other individual of how secure or insecure Iraq is, because you've toured a lot of Iraq. What's your summary of the situation in terms of chaos or law and order?

TIM SPICER: I think you have to understand that there is, obviously, there's a very serious insurgency going on in Iraq and considerable effort being made by the coalition, or allied military forces and the Iraqi military forces, to counter it.

But I think the problem that people have, particularly in this country and the United States, is they're viewing it through the telescope of the television and whilst it is bad and it is dangerous, it's not all bad and it's not all dangerous.

I think that under the circumstances a great deal of progress towards reconstruction is being made and will continue to be made. And I think that there are people going about their business, helping the Iraqis get back on their feet, heavily protected but -

DAVID FROST: But would you, would you recommend people who are builders or contractors in this country to go to Iraq at the moment? Do you think you can protect them?

TIM SPICER: It's not, not my job entirely to protect them, it's the responsibility of those employing them to make sure that the security measures in place for those workers are sound.

Given those circumstances, and the responsibility of reconstruction companies, I think it is possible to go. But I think I would only advise people to go there if the measures put in place for their protection are sound.

DAVID FROST: And in terms of the tragedy of Ken Bigley, and so on, and the rumour - the rumour, not confirmed - that the Italians were freed for a ransom. Does ransoms, or indeed any concessions, to kidnappers make your job more difficult?

TIM SPICER: I think what it does is it encourages further kidnaps or hostage-taking. There are two types of kidnappers or hostage-takers in Iraq: those doing it for money, criminals, and those doing it for political purposes, like Mr Zarqawi and his band of thugs, but I think any concession to them, personally - it's a personal view - only encourages them. And I think that the payment of ransoms is counterproductive.

DAVID FROST: How many, how many people, in fact, will you need to employ to do this task?

TIM SPICER: We're currently employing about 500 people. We're not actually responsible for everybody's security, what we're responsible for is the coordination, in a number of civil military operation centres, the coordination of the security of the reconstruction companies and its interface with military operations - the counter-insurgency operations.

DAVID FROST: And from what you've seen, people describe it as a quagmire and other things, is it possible to win this battle in Iraq, or are we caught in something that's a no-win situation?

TIM SPICER: I don't think it's a no-win situation at all. I think it's a long term race of which the first significant milestone, the elections in January, is coming up rapidly. But I think that it is perfectly possible to win it but I don't think people should expect, or have a short term expectation. It's a very complicated situation.

The infrastructure and social structure and religious structure of Iraq is complicated enough and if you superimpose an insurgency and all the complications of foreign forces being there, the emerging Iraqi security forces and their development, this is not something that's going to be solved overnight.

DAVID FROST: And what is the most important aid to you in terms of from reinforced tanks to guns, to whatever, what are your weapons in this battle in Iraq?

TIM SPICER: Well I think, I mean for me it's the ability to coordinate and continue to help the reconstruction effort, working in parallel with the military. But I think the one single most effective weapon against the enemy - of which there are many - would be the value of intelligence.

DAVID FROST: And, of course, suicide bombers can get through better, that is a new phenomenon, compared to other places that you've seen. I mean suicide bombers can get through because they don't care.

TIM SPICER: Well that is the problem of suicide bombers, they're very difficult to counter. And I think that there are ways of interdicting them - to use the euphemism for stopping them - but they are very difficult because, as you say, they don't care.

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NB: this transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.

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