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 Breakfast with Frost
Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York
Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York

Please note "BBC Breakfast with Frost" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used

DAVID FROST: Well he'll soon be heading off to New York, and later this week one of that city's best known figures will be visiting Britain. The former mayor, Rudolph Giuliani is coming here to talk about his new book on leadership. He spoke to me recently from New York. Last week, you may remember, we heard how he tackled crime in that city and the gun problems. This week we have his thoughts on terrorism, Iraq and his own political future. But first, on the subject of the book, leadership, I asked him whether leaders are in fact born or made.

RUDY GIULIANI: That's a very interesting question. I, I think that you learn it more than you're born with it, but in order to have it, you have to be born. So, it's a very interesting, it's a very interesting combination of, of the fact that you have to be born, genetic characteristics, but then I think most of it is things that you learn through watching other people, observing them, having role models, reading biography and incorporating from other people the things that you think they did right and that would work for you. For example, I mean if you look at Winston Churchill's life, the thing that defined his leadership, although he contributed in many, many ways, was how he handled the Battle of Britain in 1940, and guided both England and western civilisation through maybe its biggest test. Had that never happened, had he not been there, who knows how, if people would appreciate Winston Churchill the way they do at this point.

DAVID FROST: What about Iraq? You said that you thought that the only way that Saddam Hussein could be, his regime could be eliminated, was militarily. In that sense, do you feel that this period of waiting for the UN is an unnecessary delay?

RUDY GIULIANI: Well I think it's very important. I think it's important that, that the United States has as much support as possible in being able to, to remove the possibility of Saddam Hussein using weapons of mass destruction, biological weapons, chemical weapons. I think this period has been a period in which we've been able to acquire a lot of information that we otherwise wouldn't have about what he's doing and the way in which he's violating agreements. So both from the point of view of having the maximum amount of international support, and from the point of view of having the maximum amount of information, I think this has been very, very valuable.

DAVID FROST: But you don't blame Saddam Hussein for what happened at the World Trade Centre, do you?

RUDY GIULIANI: No. What I, what I believe Saddam Hussein does is he contributes in a very, very important way to international terrorism. And, and therefore poses a significant danger - both has posed a danger in the past, and continues to, of acts of terrorism, of use of biological weapons, chemical weapons, weapons of mass destruction in the future. So, I mean those are all things you have to consider. Whether or not you can specifically tie him through evidence to a, to one particular terrorist act, he's part of the network that has helped to support terrorism for quite some time now.

DAVID FROST: When we talked in December 2001, Rudy, and I was saying did you expect another terror attack in New York and you said yes. You said it's not a question of if, it's just a question of when. Do you still feel that now?

RUDY GIULIANI: I do. I can't say to you that I, that I particularly know that it will happen and I can't say to you that I can say that it's going to happen in New York, but I think we have to, we have to assume that there's going to be another terrorist attack. And - I'm talking about America - we have to assume in America, and I think this would probably be true, you know, in many parts of the world, including in England, we have to assume that we're a target and therefore we have to, we have to try to prepare for every possibility that might happen.

DAVID FROST: I wanted to ask you, in fact very much about, because you spoke very movingly about the subject when we talked about it before, about what form should the new world trade centre take. And there were the original designs which people didn't think much of, and now there are seven new designs - are they a bit better, do you think?

RUDY GIULIANI: What I worry about is that 25 or 50, or a hundred years from now, when people come to the site, they're going to feel that in our haste to just cover it over we didn't do proper justice to the historical significance of it, or to the fact that so many people from so many different countries and, and in my particular case I have to say it's personal, you know, a number of friends of mine, and people that I was with shortly before they died, lost their lives there and some of them were never recovered.

DAVID FROST: And looking ahead now to the future, Rudy, there's - people talk about senator in 2004 and governor in 2006, president in 2008 - we realise you can't do all of those jobs, of course.


DAVID FROST: However much you'd like to. But, you, you do plan to go back into politics at some stage, don't you?

RUDY GIULIANI: I do. I do. I do think that I will. I can't say that I plan because I think it's too far away to be planning but if you're asking me to, you know, sort of give a prediction on where my life is going to go, that's probably something that in the back of my mind I think about and would like to re-enter politics at the right time. I was very active last year in all of the campaigns that took place throughout the United States. I campaigned in a lot of places, travelled a lot of places, helped a lot of friends of mine who were running for office who I, who I agree with philosophically. But that's all in the future, so there's really no way of answering that right now. It's, you know, those are all several years away.

DAVID FROST: That was Rudy Giuliani, author of Leadership.


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