Wales: First Minister's Questions (01/06/04)

Rhodri Morgan rejects the idea of war with the English

It all sounds familiar. Plaid Cymru wants fewer quangos, the Tories want answers on waiting lists, and the LibDems want to tell you about their plans for council tax.

Voter engagement aside, the coming elections on 10 June have certainly re-engaged assembly members' passions.

For the third week in a row, Ieuan Wyn Jones challenged Rhodri Morgan on why, when in opposition, he was the greatest quango-basher; now he is now a quango-lover.

And for the third week in a row, the first minister refused to be drawn on his quango-bashing past.

Rhodri's Put-Down Of The Week To Nick Bourne: ''You cannot ask a question about an 'it' that does not exist - it is complete balderdash. Take it away and tell your press officer not to bother with it, as somebody has given you a bum steer. Just forget about it, okay?''

He said there has been a "substantial rationalisation process" over the last few years, with many of the public bodies merged or abolished.

But this week, he had extra fuel. Mr Morgan's counter-attack pummelled Ieuan Wyn Jones for voting against the abolition of quangos in the past.

And Nick Bourne stuck to familiar territory as he kept the pressure up over waiting lists. This time, it was rumours over a cover-up.

The first minister, he alleged, has prevented publishing the minutes of a meeting where a discussion took place on manipulating waiting list figures.

Mr Morgan was angered. He said the allegation was baseless and should be withdrawn. Someone had given the Welsh Conservative leader "a bum steer", he said.

Questions

Helen Mary Jones (Plaid Cymru) asked why the government is not willing to take on Labour-led authorities which are falling behind their targets to collect more recyclable waste from the kerbside.
The first minister said £62 million has been given to local authorities to meet their target for recycling and composting 40 per cent of municipal waste. He said there is no link between political control and recycling targets.

Leanne Wood (Plaid Cymru) asked about voter apathy among young people.
The first minister said young people were interested in politics, but weren't voting. He said they were supporting the Local Government Association and the Electoral Commission in their efforrts to raise voter awareness in Wales.

Christine Chapman (Labour) asked what the government was doing to ensure that the deaf community was mainstreamed and that any barriers to the deaf community voting are eradicated.
The first minister said he wasn't aware that so few deaf people voted, but said the importance of total communication must be understood.

Ieuan Wyn Jones (Plaid Cymru Group Leader) asked why the first minister's promise to halve quangos by 2000 was not kept.
The first minister said there had been a substantial rationalisation process and there are far fewer quangos than previously.

Ieuan Wyn Jones said more quangos had been created since 2000 than during the previous 18 years of Tory rule. He asked whether he will follow the example of the health secretary and abolish health quangos.
The first minister said his figures were wrong; there are not 53 quangos in the health service. He accused Plaid Cymru of saying they are against them, yet fighting to keep them when Labour proposes to get rid of them.

Nick Bourne (Leader of the Conservative Group) said the Assembly Government was not publishing minutes of a discussion where the manipulation of waiting list figures was discussed.
The first minister says no damaging documents exist. On the differences between England and Wales waiting list figures, he said in Wales they count more matters. Consultant-to-consultant referrals are included in Wales' waiting lists, whereas in England it is not counted.

Leighton Andrews asked about the economic well being of Rhondda.
The first minister said that assembly grants had been given to the companies such as Griffin Windows Ltd which had employed 140 more people. He said there has been a sharp fall lin claimant count unemployment in Rhondda.

Owen John Thomas (Plaid Cymru) said Plaid Cymru controlled Rhondda Cynon Taf Council had been remarkably successful in its handling of Objective 1 funding.
The first minister said the council clearly doesn't have enough press officers and that Owen John Thomas was applying for a position. He said none of the Council's successes could have been achieved without Labour's handling of Objective 1 from Brussels.

Lorraine Barrett (Labour) asked if the first minister would ensure the poorest areas benefit from the latest round of post office development funding.
The first minister said the social justice minister would make an announcement shortly. He said the emphasis should be on the long-term prosperity for post offices.

Peter Black (LibDem) said that on 3 June more post office closures for Swansea will be announced. He said this was directly attributable to the government policy of transferring the payments of pensions to bank accounts.
The first minister said that is part of a raft of easier-to-access services in the financial area. He said the biggest disaster for the modern post office was the forced sale of Girobank to Alliance & Leicester under a previous Conservative Government.

Brian Gibbons (Labour) asked whether post offices could be used as banking facilities too, like the Cooperative Bank is offering.
The first minister said most banks are offering this scheme, but there was one which was not co-operating.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (Plaid Cymru) said the problems with the post office come from the fact that Labour privatised the service. He asked the first minister to accept responsibility as a Labour Party member.
The first minister said there is no question of privatising the post office. He said the main problem has been the change in the process of how people want their benefits paid to them.

Mark Isherwood asked about the code of conduct for local authority officers. He said he would provide evidence that senior officers at Flintshire County Council have been operating outside the guidelines.

The Presiding Officer ruled the question out of order.

Mike German (Liberal Democrat Group Leader) asked the first minister what he was planning to do after the review into local government finance.
The first minister said it was a delicately balanced issue at the moment. He accepted the problems with Council Tax but said there was no silver bullet for a popular tax to fund local government services. The matter is 'up for grabs' he said.

Brynle Williams (Conservative) asked about the impact of the impending tax increases on fuel.
The first minister said no specific assessment has been made on its effect on Wales. He said fuel duties have been cut by 9 per cent in real terms since 1999.

Carl Sargeant said there has been an increased usage of fuel in China but insufficient fuel is being sourced. He said OPEC should be persuaded to increase its source, rather than reducing taxes to fund health and education.
The first minister agreed. He said the answer to a "spike" in the oil prices is for Saudi Arabia to increase its pumping.

You can see First Minister's Questions in full on BBC Parliament from 1500 GMT on Saturday.