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Page last updated at 09:32 GMT, Sunday, 12 July 2009 10:32 UK

'Sink a couple of boats'

On Sunday 12 July Andrew Marr interviewed Nick Griffin, leader, British National Party

Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

The BNP leader Nick Griffin explains how he would deter migrants from coming to Europe.

ANDREW MARR:

Nick Griffin
Nick Griffin, BNP Leader

Well this week, one of the smaller British parties takes up two seats in the European Parliament for the first time.

The British National Party, regularly described as 'Fascist', now has many local councillors, one Member of the London Assembly, and two MEPs - one of whom is its Leader, Nick Griffin, who joins me now.

NICK GRIFFIN:

Good morning.

ANDREW MARR:

Good morning. Now you arrive at the European Parliament this week, not an institution that you would like to see sustained or you'd certainly like to see Britain being a member of. And you haven't been able to kind of create a party of, a group of Far Right parties, so what do you hope to achieve there?

NICK GRIFFIN:

Well the MEPs who go from Britain, certainly from the main parties - Tory, Liberal, Labour - they're almost all of them Europhiles. They wouldn't recognise a threat to British interests if it really stood up and shouted at them in the face. So we want to be there primarily as whistleblowers because we are very suspicious of the drive for federal, you know towards a federal Europe. We want to stand up for British interests.

ANDREW MARR:

Of course UKIP have been … no one would describe them …

NICK GRIFFIN:

No.

ANDREW MARR:

… as Europhile. I just wonder … I mean you now get quite a lot of taxpayers' money because of this. Do you accept that it's happened really not because more and more people were voting for you, but because people were not voting for other parties - above all, the Labour Party; they just stayed at home?

NICK GRIFFIN:

There's an element of truth to that, but our vote did go up from 800,000 to nearly a million, so it went up on a much lower turnout. But you know obviously there's a huge amount of discontent with the old political parties, which when you look at what they've done to the country is justified.

ANDREW MARR:

Now you're described regularly as being a Fascist. So let's start by looking at what you think now about British Asians and Black British people. You've said that they may be legally British, but they're not ethnically British.

NICK GRIFFIN:

Yeah.

ANDREW MARR:

Given that you know we all live under the rule of law, what practical difference would that make?

NICK GRIFFIN:

Well let's start by saying I'm not a Fascist. That's a smear that comes from the Far Left. Fascism is about using political violence, it's about worshipping a large state and saying a state should impose its will on people, so we're not Fascists.

ANDREW MARR:

(over) Well you have talked about political violence in the past.

NICK GRIFFIN:

I've talked about self-defence when we've been attacked. You know …

ANDREW MARR:

"Fists and boots", you've said.

NICK GRIFFIN:

Yeah when we've been attacked, yes. But the fact is that we decommissioned those attitudes about ten years ago. There is now an organised mob called Unite Against Fascism, which is backed by all the main parties - it's backed including by people, by David Cameron. It regularly uses violence against our people and people like Cameron will not condemn it. Now that's Fascism.

ANDREW MARR:

So what about a black or Asian British person watching this programme who wants to know what you would like to happen to them and their families eventually?

NICK GRIFFIN:

Well a significant number of them vote for us, as a matter of fact, because they came to Britain primarily because they wanted to come to a British Britain. They didn't want to come to part of the third world or something becoming an Islamic state. So our position with them is that they're here. If they've bought into our ways and values, say like Trevor McDonald, if they're here legally, they're paying into system, they don't want to change our country into something else - we've got no problem with them whatsoever.

ANDREW MARR:

I hear, and maybe this is wrong, that for instance the British National Party does not support the England football team when there are black players on the pitch. Is that true?

NICK GRIFFIN:

No, that's entirely wrong. That dates back to a comment on the website about eight years ago. Nothing to do with our position now.

ANDREW MARR:

And what about Kelly Holmes because one of your members suggested that she wasn't fully British?

NICK GRIFFIN:

Civically, all these people - if they come here legally, they've bought into our ways - they're civically British, but to point out that for instance Trevor McDonald is …

ANDREW MARR:

(over) So why, why …

NICK GRIFFIN:

… is not Welsh or English is not to do him down and say he's not British. If Trevor McDonald's English, then the English are nothing. And that's a racist position, it's wrong.

ANDREW MARR:

So why put the word 'civic' in?

NICK GRIFFIN:

To make the point where it's the liberal elite who say, for instance, that we have to fill in the census form. I have to describe myself as white British. I'm not white, I'm English …

ANDREW MARR:

(over) But if you say …

NICK GRIFFIN:

… but I'm not allowed to say that.

ANDREW MARR:

… if you say somebody is civically British, you're saying they're not properly British, aren't you?

NICK GRIFFIN:

No, I'm saying unethnically British. And it's a simple matter of fact that someone such as Kelly Holmes is not Irish, she's not Scottish, English or Welsh.

ANDREW MARR:

(over) Do you …

NICK GRIFFIN:

She's a black Briton.

ANDREW MARR:

Do you any longer want to see an all-white Britain?

NICK GRIFFIN:

No, it's simply not … it's simply not doable. Nobody out there wants it or will pay for it. We do believe the Britain we had up until 1948 when the liberal elite decided to change it into something totally different without a vote, without anything being asked of the British people - we think that was wrong, it was undemocratic, but what is done is done. We now … What we need to do now is ….

ANDREW MARR:

(over) So no repatriation programme?

NICK GRIFFIN:

No repatriation … The same resettlement programme which exists at present, whereby the government makes money available to members of ethnic minorities who want - that's the important word, the crucial word - who want to go back to their lands of ethnic origin, they can get help to do so. And we will put more money into that because Britain is full, overcrowded, and clearly terribly, terribly unstable as a result of this multicultural experiment.

ANDREW MARR:

If you in the past enthusiastically read 'Mein Kampf', denied the Holocaust happened - which you did - advocated forms of violence, why should people trust you in any way now? You've said these are "youthful misjudgements", but it's been a long youth and they were quite some misjudgements.

NICK GRIFFIN:

Let's look at one. I've never said anywhere that I enthusiastically read 'Mein Kampf'. I said I read it when I was fourteen and found all but one chapter extremely boring.

ANDREW MARR:

But you said that you learned a lot from it at the same time.

NICK GRIFFIN:

No, I didn't. This comes … It's typical of the lies that come out and are regurgitated, recycled by the press. Most of this stuff comes from a chap who said that his father beat his mother and so on in his biography of his father - Dominic Carmen, George Carmen. Most of most of what he said about me is simply a lie, so please don't repeat them.

ANDREW MARR:

So do you, do you abhor Fascism, do you detest Fascism?

NICK GRIFFIN:

I detest Fascism and the Fascism that scares me, there's several forms. There's the Islamo Fascism, which is seriously spreading throughout Europe and particularly in Britain at the moment and we need to deal with. And also the European Union is itself essentially Fascist. You know British values, British traditions are based on Magna Carta, on very ancient rules of English law, and these are being systematically done away with by a European federal super state, which is very close to Fascism.

ANDREW MARR:

Let me ask you what may be another media myth. You've got two dogs. What are they called?

NICK GRIFFIN:

Belle and Otto. Anne and Frank is a lie - a wicked, wicked lie.

ANDREW MARR:

So when I read in one of the papers that your dogs are called Anne and Frank, that's just untrue?

NICK GRIFFIN:

It's untrue. I can imagine people read that and think god this man's either you know wicked or mad, but it's simply not true.

ANDREW MARR:

What about the comment that you made last week about asylum seekers coming across the Mediterranean and the best thing to do would be to sink the boats.

NICK GRIFFIN:

I said that because we've got an un-ending wave of immigrants coming from Africa as illegals. At the present, the position is many of them die on the way over. You know the liberal way of letting them come is killing thousands of them, and if this continues Europe will simply sink under a mass of African immigration.

ANDREW MARR:

(over) If you sink the boats instead, they'll die in the sea.

NICK GRIFFIN:

No, I said that what needs to be done as an example is to sink a couple of boats near the shores of Libya, throw them lifeboats so they can paddle back, so they understand they will never get to Europe because the alternative is accepting that Britain eventually is going to end up like Africa and the liberal elites have no right to impose or to allow that to happen when the British population do not want it to happen.

ANDREW MARR:

We live in a world where for all sorts of reasons, not least perhaps climate change, people are on the move all over the world. People are desperate to come to Europe, desperate to come here.

In the end, what do you do? Do you have machine gun posts in the White Cliffs of Dover, do you surround the island by barbed wire? What do you do?

NICK GRIFFIN:

Well I think we need a national debate what do we do about it? If we're going to allow them to come, for a start, I'd say well let's start sticking them in Hampstead in the places where the liberal elite live instead of poor places like Barking and Barnsley and Manchester and see how you people like it. That's the very first thing.

But I think sooner or later we have to say what are we going to do? There is particularly from Africa and parts of Asia, there's an endless flood of people who naturally enough want to come here to soft touch Britain. Are we going to let them and let Britain be destroyed, or do we stop them? You tell me.

ANDREW MARR:

Well luckily it's not my job to tell you - but Nick Griffin, thank you very much indeed.

NICK GRIFFIN:

Thank you very much.

INTERVIEW ENDS

Note: Nick Griffin's claims that Dominic Carman has told lies about him, including that Mr Griffin has said he learned a lot from reading "Mein Kampf", are strongly disputed by Mr Carman. Mr Carman asserts that the allegation regarding Mr Griffin learning a lot from "Mein Kampf" was based on an interview given to him by Mr Griffin.


Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.


NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy


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