Bush's BBC interview in full

George W Bush talks to Stephen Sackur

Transcript of President George W Bush's interview with the BBC's Stephen Sackur.

Stephen Sackur:
Mr President, I want to begin with the issue of global warming. The United States is the biggest polluter in the world, and it is responsible for 25% of the greenhouse gas emissions in the world. Do you think that gives you a special responsibility to lead on this issue and to come up with solutions for it?

President Bush:

The protocol that I inherited... is not the proper way to proceed. We share the goals, but the methodology needs to be assessed.

President Bush

Well we take the issue very seriously, Steve. I mean, we do emit greenhouse gases, but we're also the largest economy in the world. And I assured my European friends, including the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, that we take the issue seriously.

We believe we ought to all work together to reduce greenhouse gases. However, the protocol that I inherited - by the way, that was condemned by the US Senate on a 95-to-nothing vote - is not the proper way to proceed. We share the goals, but the methodology needs to be assessed.

Stephen Sackur:
Now, you know that's going to cause, still, eruptions on your European trip, because as we speak there is a meeting in Germany where they're trying to resuscitate the Kyoto Treaty, and the Europeans are saying they're desperately eager to get you back on board. Is there any chance they'll succeed and bring you back to Kyoto?

President Bush:
No. They've succeeded in getting my endorsement of reducing greenhouse gases. We will lay out a strategy over time that will help our nation achieve that which we all want, which is a reduction of greenhouse gases.

But as I told them the other day, we've got an energy crisis in America, as well. Some may not want to admit that, but we're kind of short on energy. And what we need to do is develop an energy strategy, combined with an environmental strategy, that will reduce greenhouse gases and, at the same time, allow our economy to grow.

I strongly believe I've got an obligation to the working people of America to put economic policy and energy policy in place that not only protects the environment, but also encourages economic growth.

Stephen Sackur:
But does that mean you're not prepared to make sacrifices?

President Bush:

If you're arguing for less greenhouse emissions, and on the other hand, you believe there should be economic vitality, it seems to make sense to explore all technological options for nuclear power. And I'm going to.

President Bush

Oh, I think our nation will make sacrifices. Our unemployment rate is going up right now. And if you're a nation that trades with America, it seems like to me you want to ask the question, how best for - what's America doing to encourage activity and growth?

It's hard to trade with somebody, it's hard to be an active trading partner, if one partner is not doing well economically. And our economy has slowed down, and I'm concerned about that.

First and foremost, I worry about the working people. And that's why we cut taxes, and that's why the Fed has responded the way it has. That's why we're having a sound, common-sense approach to energy development, and that's why we're tying it all into a vision of how to reduce greenhouse gases. And we will.

I'll give you one area of contention, bone of contention, Steve, during my discussions. There are some people in Europe that don't believe we ought to fully explore the opportunity and options of nuclear power. But if, on the one hand, you're arguing for less greenhouse emissions, and on the other hand, you believe there should be economic vitality, it seems to make sense that we ought to explore all technological options for nuclear power. And I'm going to.

Stephen Sackur:
But, Mr President, I take all of that on board, but I wonder whether you worry that because of the way this debate is now playing in Europe, that you are, in a sense, damaging your own standing and America's standing with the Europeans. You've seen the signs, "the toxic Texan", and you've seen the demonstrators. And they're going to be there in Italy again. Do you worry about this issue, in a sense, tarnishing transatlantic relations?

President Bush:
Well, I think the leaders appreciate somebody who is straightforward and open. I guess I could have gone with a strategy of playing like this makes sense. But I chose to be as open as I could and explain in terms that we share the same goal, that we will come with a strategy that makes sense, but that the treaty wasn't going to pass.

The Europeans heard me once and they'll hear me again say that the Cold War is over, that Russia is not our enemy, and that we should not adhere to a treaty that prevents the United States and other freedom-loving people from developing defences.

President Bush

And there was no need for me to play like it was going to pass, particularly since the United States Senate had delivered a pretty clear message on a 95-to-nothing vote about our nation adhering to 1990 CO2 emission levels and reducing from there. That would be an economic impossibility for us to do.

We're spending a lot of money and time and effort on looking at interesting technologies - conservation technologies - and we look forward to sharing that with the rest of the world, as we all aim to reduce greenhouse gases.

Stephen Sackur:
Mr President, can I move on, because I know we're quite short of time?

President Bush:
Sure. Please.

Stephen Sackur:
Missile defence, another key issue again when you go to Europe. Can you conceive of anything that the Europeans, or indeed President Putin, will tell you that will change your mind on your ambitious plan for missile defence?

President Bush:
The Europeans heard me once and they'll hear me again say that the Cold War is over, that Russia is not our enemy, and that we should not adhere to a treaty that prevents the United States and other freedom-loving people from developing defences - not offensive weapons, but defences - necessary to address the real threats of the 21st century. And those threats, those threats.

Stephen Sackur:
Even if the ABM Treaty has to be jettisoned as a consequence?

President Bush:
I've made it very clear that the ABM Treaty is not going to - that we need to set it aside, we need to move forward.

Stephen Sackur:
How soon will it go?

President Bush:
Well, I told the European friends that we'll do so in consultation. But it's about time a leader stepped forward and made it clear that Russia is not the enemy, and therefore we shouldn't have a treaty that was written to codify that status. It's a new day. New leaders, younger leaders, leaders no longer kind of wedded into the past, the Cold War past, need to think differently as to how to address the true threats of the 21st century.

And the true threats of the 21st century are the ability for some rogue leader to say to the United States, to Europe, to Russia, herself, to Israel, don't you dare move, don't you dare try to express your freedom, otherwise we'll blow you up. And we must have a response to that.

Make no mistake about it, there are some nations developing weapons of mass destruction who cannot stand what America and Britain stands for. And I believe we have an obligation to our peoples and to freedom to cast aside the old way of thinking and develop systems that will work - defensive systems that will work and make sense.

He's easy to talk to, which is a high compliment when it comes from a Texan

President Bush on Tony Blair

Stephen Sackur:
I can't imagine how you could be any clearer on that. You've been so clear from the very beginning. Why do you think so many other nations are still so deeply sceptical, including the Russians?

President Bush:
Because sometimes change is hard. People get comfortable in an old way of thinking. And I recognise that. But we're in close consultation with our allies. I will continue - I'm going to have this exact same discussion with Tony Blair again. And he is, you know, he's thoughtful, he's interested in the opinion of his friend. Mr Putin was most interested in my conversations with him. And I will continue to work the issue.

I have made it clear that at some point in time, the United States will develop what's necessary to help protect us all from the true threats. But in the meantime, I will continue to consult and continue to work to - people to understand that we need to have a new framework, a new attitude about the 21st century. It is a different world we're entering into than the one in 1972.

Stephen Sackur:
Mr President, just a couple of thoughts about your trip to London, because there's been a very special relationship in the recent past between presidents and prime ministers, thinking of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, your father and Margaret Thatcher, and then Bill Clinton and Tony Blair. In that context, how do you see George W Bush and Tony Blair?

President Bush:
Well, we've had one face-to-face meeting at Camp David that was a - could not have gone better. And I've been on the phone with him quite a few times. I find Tony Blair to be somebody who's easy to talk to, who is willing to listen, who's got good advice, that's sound advice, and who, like me, will put 100% effort into making sure the relationship between America and Great Britain is unique and strong.

Stephen Sackur:
You're not political soul mates, are you?

President Bush:
Well, I - we don't spend a lot of time on domestic politics, but we are soul mates when it comes to how to keep the peace, soul mates when it comes to issues like the Balkans, soul mates when it comes to trade. But there's something larger than politics and political parties, and that is alliances and friendships. And both of us are committed to that.

There was this moment when somebody asked you what you have in common with Tony Blair. And you said, well, I know we use the same toothpaste. How did you know?

Stephen Sackur

I look forward to seeing him at Chequers. And we sat next to each other at my first EU luncheon - NATO luncheon - anyway, at the first luncheon with leaders I sat next to Tony. It was very comforting to sit next to a friend, kind of the new boy in class, you know - sat next to a friend. And he's easy to talk to, which is a high compliment when it comes from a Texan.

Stephen Sackur:
There's one last thing I'm dying to ask you - that is, when we were all in Camp David the first time Tony Blair came to see you, there was this moment when somebody asked you what you have in common with Tony Blair. And you said, well, I know we use the same toothpaste. How did you know? Because we checked it out and it was true. How did you know?

President Bush:
I didn't know that. I was trying to - I was kind of answering, frankly, in a little bit of a flipped way a question that I found amusing. And I was trying to inject a little humour. And I understand some in England took off with that - they found it to be quite amusing. I didn't know.

Stephen Sackur:
So it was a lucky guess?

President Bush:
It was what we call a throw-away line. (Laughter) And it was a lucky guess.

Yesterday I was able to place a bust on loan from the British Government in the Oval Office of Winston Churchill. I've always loved Churchill. I'm not saying this to pander to your audience, but I love Churchill. One reason why is he had unbelievable wit and humour. And one of the things that we need more of is good humour in the political process. And maybe that was a feeble attempt for me to inject a little humour into what was a very serious press conference.

Stephen Sackur:
Well, Mr President, thank you very much indeed.

President Bush:
You bet. Thanks. Good job.

Stephen Sackur:
Thank you very much. I know we overran a little bit. I hope you'll forgive me.

President Bush:
That's okay. Good questions.

Stephen Sackur:
Thank you.