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On 28 March 2004, Sir David Frost interviewed Asa Hutchinson, US Under Secretary for Border & Transportation Security

Please note "BBC Breakfast with Frost" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

DAVID FROST: Last week on this programme Britain's top cop, Sir John Stevens, talked about his role in the so-called war on terror, and his fears that it's inevitable that terrorists will try and attack Britain. In the United States President Bush has created a special department of homeland security, an idea the Conservatives think we should copy, and Tom Ridge heads it - he was with us, as you may remember, a few months ago - while the Deputy Head of Homeland Security, the under-secretary, is Asa Hutchinson, and I spoke to him last night in Washington, asking him first whether he thought that the Madrid bombing was a sort of wake-up call to Europe. ASA HUTCHINSON: I think that Europe has been engaged with us but perhaps in some circles they viewed this more as a United States problem. Clearly this indicates that it is a world-wide problem and we're going to have to continue to work together to fight this. I was pleased that the European Union designated a counter-terrorism official, and this will help us to build common support for fighting this battle. DAVID FROST: Thinking back to the attacks in Turkey and now Madrid, do you think that part of the strategy of al-Qaeda is to attack the United States' closest allies? They haven't attacked Britain yet, but to attack the closest allies of the US is an indirect way of attacking the US? ASA HUTCHINSON: Well they're clearly focused on symbolic attacks, sending messages, and those that are united together in fighting terrorism are going to be targets of their attack and they've shown that they're willing to go after symbolic targets, they're willing to go after attacks to influence elections perhaps, and so clearly this year, I think we're all substantially warned that they're trying to send messages, they're trying to break up the united international coalition fighting terrorism. And I think that says that we should steel our nerves and be prepared for this year. DAVID FROST: Do you think that one way or another the American elections are going to be a big target for al-Qaeda, in a sense either of affecting the results of the election, as apparently happened in Spain, or by focusing on candidates or conventions? You're going to have to be particularly alert with the upcoming presidential elections, aren't you? ASA HUTCHINSON: Well I believe it is a major target. I don't believe they will be successful in that effort, the security will be enormous. And I believe the American political system is complex, I believe it is unpredictable and I don't think that they should assume that the American public would react in a particular way. We have a way of uniting ourselves in the event that we would be attacked or a target. DAVID FROST: How do you characterise who we're fighting here? We talk about al-Qaeda, but who exactly do you think of as the enemy? ASA HUTCHINSON: Well I think the, the enemy, first of all, there is a structure. But that is a structure that is very loose, it's not similar to a government and so you have to fight it in different ways. I would compare it back to the Eighties when we fought domestic terrorism and many times there were splinter groups, there were individuals that were stirred up, that they'd take action, and that's what makes it unpredictable and difficult. This is a long term effort and so because we dismantle leadership we know that we increase our safety but there's other dangers out there that we have to guard against. DAVID FROST: This week we've seen pictures, of course, of Prime Minister Blair with Colonel Gaddafi in Libya. Do you see Libya giving up its nuclear potential, it's nuclear programme, as one effect of the war on Iraq - one positive effect? ASA HUTCHINSON: I do. And I think the united international will in addressing the problem in Iraq convinced Gaddafi that there's a better direction for him and his country. And so the firm leadership and intention on fighting terrorism, I think, did have an impact on the direction that Gaddafi took and so, and that could be multiplied. If we stick together, we continue to fight this, I think you will see other benefits in that region of the world for that international effort. DAVID FROST: Is the war on terror a war which can never be finally won? Will there always be terrorists, we can only hope to edge them, or will it be possible, ever, to win outright, get closure? ASA HUTCHINSON: Well you ultimately win by changing the climate, you diminish their capability and you save lives every step of the way. But every generation has to face this struggle as to whether they're going to use terrorism as a means to accomplish a political purpose and taking civilian lives. So we will continue to fight this battle - the first one I remember is 1950, a long time ago, and so every generation will face ¿ but we win by strengthening our defences and diminishing the potential for attack and the causes of terrorism.

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