How far can Europe expand?

Ten new countries will join the European Union next May.

The expansion sees the EU moving east, into countries such as Latvia, Lithuania and Slovakia.

But this is not the end of the EU's expansion plans - Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine are widely regarded as potential EU states and the Caucasian states of Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia have not been ruled out.

Some EU officials say that the limits of possible future enlargement should be spelled out, in the interests of transparency.

But others think the issue is best left unresolved, because the possibility of future membership is a carrot which could encourage countries to make democratic reforms and become better, more stable neighbours.

How far do you think the European Union should expand? What should the criteria be for joining the EU?

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This debate is now closed. Read your comments below.

Your reaction:

The following comments reflect the balance of opinion we have received:

The concept of a federation of states is not a practical dream Tony, Welling, Kent

Ultimately the expansion will end when the bureaucracy gets unstable and the economics fall apart. I personally do not expect to see Europe last much longer on this basis. The core of free trade and the basis of law will be the main frameworks to survive. But the concept of a federation of states is not a practical dream.
Tony, Welling, Kent

Best analogy is it's a balloon, the only problem is, if it expands too much the walls become thin and then it burst.
Richard Sweetman, England

I think that the issue of clear and defined scoping for EU boundaries is the big dilemma that European leaders and EU technocrats will have to face up to sooner rather than later. Of course there are pros and cons any way you look at it. However, it is difficult to imagine unlimited expansion without any consequent disorder. I also believe that any further expansion should not only be guided by geographical delimiters but also by common values, be they cultural, social or creed.
Adrian, Malta

I am 14 and am strongly in favour of expanding the EU into the Baltic states. I have just returned from a 'tour' of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia and from what I've seen they desperately need all the benefits the EU can bring. Going to such places makes you realise how lucky you are, it is time we helped these people.
A. Bond, Scotland

Of course we should aim to expand the EU to include the former eastern bloc countries: increasing the prosperity of the whole of Europe benefits everyone eventually, in the interests of political and economic stability of the whole area. We share a cultural heritage with Eastern Europe that extends way back before the cold war, and to move forward we should welcome them back as soon as possible.
Ruth , Germany (UK expat)

The EU already has sizeable problems to deal with its current size, adding 10 poorer countries is going to put the brakes on closer integration.
Lewis, New Zealand

Europe can only expand to its continental borders. After that, it is no longer "Europe". I do not believe it is in the best interest of former Soviet holdings or other Eastern European countries, to be part of the EU. The EU is and will continue to be dominated by certain countries. Why would a newly formed country, free of Soviet domination want that?
Misha, USA

No institution that cannot account reliably for 90% of its expenditure should be expanding at all. As the accounts yet again cannot be verified the only result will be that the richer nations will pay more and more, but no one will be able to say where it went. Now doesn't that sound familiar at home as well?
R Scott-Watson, UK

It has been tried before. If this sort of union, dominated by one or two countries in western Europe and encompassing most or all of Europe and as much of Asia and North Africa as you can bring in, is desirable, why did so many fight to bring it down when it existed in 1943?
Bill Popovich, USA

The secret of the EU's success is the way that each member state retains it's own sovereignty and identity Jon E, France

The EU has proved astonishingly successful at spreading freedom, prosperity and democracy, without needing any military prowess whatsoever. Compare this to the USA, which has done little if anything to improve the lot of the Latin and South American countries. Not only is the EU spreading East, but South too, with countries like Morocco seeking harmonisation if not full membership. The secret of the EU's success is the way that each member state retains it's own sovereignty and identity, albeit at a price of increased bureaucracy and complexity.
Jon E, France

The evolution of the EU may be a model for the development of the whole World as a peaceful entity. Those who want to set early constitutions in stone are balanced by those who want to "suck it and see". Those who want one rule for all are balanced by a commonsense approach that each country joins from a different base. The construction of such a society ought be viewed as a marriage of many partners. Hasty union is often followed by broken agreements. Living together before union allows one to develop procedures to resolve disagreements. At the moment we're living together, more partners are joining us and we're learning about each other, developing institutions and finding ways to resolve disputes to everyone's satisfaction. Let the Union expand as far as its institutions permit and let democracy, fairness and justice be the main criteria for joining.
JohnM, LyneMeads,UK

There should be no limits. The end of expansion is nowhere near, and as long as countries have the appetite to join, they should be allowed and encouraged to do so. I suspect that the limits will be set by the ideological bent of tinpot dictators in the Caucasus and the middle east rather than by any decision of the European Union to put up barriers.
Alastair, UK

The EU will probably be a bloated, wasteful bureaucracy that will lower all Europeans' standards of living Tom, USA

The EU expanding seems to be better for the US than Europeans. As an American I will feel better if more countries are part of the world of democracy and market economies by being part of the EU. But it's unfortunate that the EU will probably be a bloated, wasteful bureaucracy that will lower all Europeans' standards of living.
Tom, USA

Europe is not expanding, never has, and never will. It is simply that the EU sees ten other countries as having made the necessary progress in development and stability to join it. I don't expect to be around when all of Europe is included, if indeed it ever happens, but I hope never to see a day when the door is closed.
Richard, UK

When the two biggest heavyweights, namely France and Germany, argue over whether they should have to abide by the rules they agreed from the outset with regard to budget deficits it hardly bodes well for expecting the newcomers (who are known to have less stable economies) to play by the rules as well. Effectively the deal appears to be that anyone is welcome to join as long as they follow every single rule while the founder members do what they want. Personally I'd give it a miss.
Dave Tankard, UK

If I lived in Europe right now I would be very worried about having fewer rights Pepe, North Carolina

I find the EU very undemocratic in that most citizens seem to be outside the process. The EU "government" seems more like some faceless bureaucracy in Brussels. That so many Europeans are so willing to hand over their sovereignty is alarming to me. If the goal is to become an overnight "United States of Europe" that will never happen. I've been all over Europe and I know first hand how much animosity there is amongst Europeans. History and lack of a common language will make a true unity impossible. If I lived in Europe right now I would be very worried about having fewer rights. I can certainly understand why many British citizens are uneasy about the EU. In conclusion, I believe that European Union is an oxymoron.
Pepe, North Carolina

Shouldn't we sort out the 'dodgy' EU accounts, the fudging of financial rules to join/stay in the Euro and the amount of fraud that is rife in the corridors of EU power, and the time and money wasted discussing trivial nonsense such as how straight a banana is, before we invite other countries to join?
Nik, UK

The EU should be able to expand until all European countries are in - so there is a limit by the very mention of the word "European".
Roy Sheward, UK

I think if this idea is going to succeed it needs to be much more all inclusive so that everyone is on an equal footing Jim Jensen, USA

I think the concept of an all inclusive Europe - a United States of Europe - is good so far as it goes. However there are already sharp differences between the big powerful countries and the smaller, less competitive countries. Also, some of the bigger countries, such as France and Germany, are having problems meeting EU economic standards. I think if this idea is going to succeed it needs to be much more all inclusive so that everyone is on an equal footing.
Jim Jensen, USA

Common sense says that Europe has to expand in a way to reach geographical completeness, so that the economy can be based on a physical coherent network of trade routes. Further countries should fulfil some objective criteria of economic, cultural and political nature. Depending of how well they fulfil these criteria they should either be allowed to join immediately or develop a special relationship with the prospect of joining later when they are more up to the job.
Dimitris, Greece

Let's have no limit. Then, with all nations as members of the club, which by then would plainly be unworkable, we would be back to where we started in the 1960s.
John, UK

Yes we can be part of the European Union - we have plenty of treaties in place to do this. BUT we are NOT open to surrendering our sovereignty. We are a monarchical country, not a republic. I think the Politicians are bullying us into accepting something we clearly do not want. Yes let's trade, let's be friends, but the Head of the United Kingdom is the QUEEN - NOT Bruxelles!
Barratt Hathaway-Taylor, England

It's obvious - all countries who take part in the Eurovision song contest should be eligible to join the EU. Perhaps whoever wins could have the headquarters in their country for a year. Sounds fair to me.
Helen, UK

Living in six countries in both East and Western Europe has made me realise we all share a common history on this continent - children in Romania are no different from those in the UK. I hope European unity can bring better prospects for all of us. Excluding certain countries based on ignorance and fears of hordes of job-stealers pouring across the borders would be a historical blunder. Both parts of Europe have much to learn from each other, it can only benefit us all if we're open to ideas and input from both sides.
Jeroen van Marle, Czech Rep./Netherlands

Since all recent history has been about regions/cultures wanting to establish greater autonomy what is the sense of trying to dragoon yet more regions/cultures into some false semblance of 'unity'. Sure, there maybe EU institutions and an EU constitution and an EU flag, but these things do not a country make. I can only see the 19th/20th century national struggles being replaced by regional struggles and war being replaced by internal suppression.
Duncan Jeffery, UK

The benefits from increased trade, cheaper labour and more resources will make EU a true super stat Ksenia, Latvia

As an aspiring EU national I welcome the expansion with all my heart. The benefits from increased trade, cheaper labour and more resources will make EU a true super state. As for the selection criteria, I think that the geographical one is the best. That would leave out Russia and its Far Eastern satellites, but what makes you think that they want to join anyway? You might as well ask India or China.
Ksenia, Latvia

EU has made a strategic decision to expand, including Turkey. That was a visionary move,I think Turkey is a sucessful example of moderate Islam,a bridge between cultures and an important NATO ally,which should be supported. After its membership,EU , in the best way,will be able to respond the allegations that the West is biased and enemy of Muslim world. This move will show that Western world even welcomes and accepts a Muslim member, provided that they share and respect the same common principles.
Aykut Uzdiyem, UK/Turkish

Seems like quite an incredible question, given today's announcement that auditors have refused to sign off the EU's accounts for the ninth year running. The corruption in the EU is one thing, their total refusal to accept that anything is wrong with their finances, let alone tackle the gravy train will mean that Britons like myself will never fully trust it until they reform and tackle the corruption.
Roger, England

I think the reality of the world we live in is that in order to be heard, you have to speak in 'chorus' with others of like mind as was so clearly illustrated in the power blocs formed hastily or otherwise at the last WTO meetings. I wish Africa would quickly go the way of the EU. There's a stirring, with the African Union, but not yet a true awakening.
Wambura Kimunyu, Kenya

The expansion of an undemocratic EU - where the constitutions of member states can be changed without the consent of the people - has to be a concern for the whole world.
Michael, UK

Michael UK, you mention that you believe the EU to be undemocratic- who did you vote for in the EU elections?
George Woods, Uk

The EU should freeze everything until it gets its act in order Mike Hall, UK

There is no reason for the EU to expand further indeed the EU should freeze everything until it gets its act in order. Why any other country would want to join an organisation that cannot get its accounts in order beggars belief, unless that is they mirror or better the corruption that is Brussels.
Mike Hall, UK

Not everyone in the 10 new countries support the "British" version of Europe. I, for one, fully behind the closer integration that Germany and France promotes. I am also ashamed that my prime minister signed that letter supporting the US-British stand on Iraq. Certainly, I will vote accordingly at the next elections.
Janos, Hungary

The EU is out of control as it has ambitions to become a giant superstate it tramples over the freedoms and democracies of the once sovereign nations. The EU's plans for expansion are being done in my view by deceit and fraud, the people are told that if they do not join they will lose their jobs and prosperity, yet, when they do join they find EU rules cost them their livlihoods as the shipworkers of Malta and coal miners of Poland have discovered to their costs. I look forward to the day when the UK wakes up to the EU con-trick and inevitably quits the EU.
Derek Bennett, England

I'm very hopeful that this will be a success Caroline, USA

I really hope this is successful for one of the very reasons the idea of an EU was born. Hopefully if these countries are unified legally and economically we will see peace in Europe this century unlike the last. Europe has created a lot of instability in the world in the past and I'm very hopeful that this will be a success.
Caroline, USA

A rapid expansion of the EU will only lead to more internal tensions, as old power brokers (Germany and France) are pushed aside. The big question is how the EU will deal with countries that decide to leave the union.
Paul, USA

The limits of EU expansion depend on the challenges coming from the West and the East of the globe alike. The growing challenges have inevitably caused Europe to unite, because even the largest European countries taken separately are too small in terms of both population and area to face those challenges effectively. This was very well understood in the past when the EC was first established.
Ljubomir, Serbia

The larger the EU becomes, the less successful it will be at accommodating the varying needs and desires of individual nations. I fear that resulting discord will not only weaken the EU collectively, but each nation individually.
Shanda, USA

Further enlargement will simply cause more and more bureaucracy John B, UK

The more Europe expands the more it will struggle. All those who highlight the USA as an example of unity in action conveniently overlook the fact that the US is a common market with a common currency and, critically, a common language. Unless nation states are willing to drop their national language (which is unlikely, to say the least) further enlargement will simply cause more and more bureaucracy as every single official document will need to be translated into more and more languages.
John B, UK

I think the expansion of the EU is a good thing for two reasons. Ireland was brought into the first world nations club as a result of EU subsidies to build up things like infrastructure and anything that can be done to devolve power over the EU from France and Germany is a good thing, as these two countries have for a long time used the EU as a way of bringing Europe under their control.
Graeme Phillips, Germany, normally UK

It is impossible to imagine Russia as part of EU. Their thinking has not changed very much from the Soviet Union thinking - they still think of the Baltic states as belonging to their realm of influence. I, as an Estonian know that regime, having escaped from the horrors of Russian occupation in my homeland.
Irene Ilves, USA

I have no problem with the expansion of the EU, as long as they can start to prioritise the issues they pass regulations on. Better working conditions, maternity & paternity leave etc are worthwhile, the amount of bend in a banana and the width of flea collars are a waste of time, resource and money.
Kiltie, UK

It is strange to contemplate "Europe" with a Pacific coast Richard Fife, UK

The territory of present-day Turkey has been intimately linked with Europe, more than with Asia further east, for most of the last 3,000 years - and most of the last 500 years too. It's Islamic heritage may not be much of the past of Britain or Germany, but is very much part of the history of Southern and Eastern European courtiers which are or will be in the EU. The obstacle to Turkey's joining may well be it's political and human-rights record, which can change, but should be nothing else. Russia is another matter. It is simply too great. That's not only in size; though it is strange to contemplate "Europe" with a Pacific coast and a border on Korea. It's not only population, though that's important: all the ten new countries now about to join have a total population less than that of Germany, but Russia's is about as big as any three existing members. It is also just too great. There is plenty of scope for close trading and political ties less than membership. Such a status may well be the most appropriate for Morocco, and the Transcaucasian states, which seem to be otherwise just too far from Europe
Richard Fife, UK

This isn't just about the EU, what they're trying to achieve is a single global state. The expansion will gradually incorporate more and more states until a merger with the US and the Asian bloc is suggested. The result will be total disaster. You have been warned.
Anonymous

It amazes me that new countries are added to the EU without the inhabitants of the existing member countries having any say in the matter. The fact is that people from the new countries are very likely to flood into the already overcrowded places like England and places that already have very high unemployment levels, such as Germany. I am also wondering what the new members will be able to contribute to the EU.
Ray, Germany

The only viable future is in a multi-speed Europe. All Member States will participate in a free trade area, with free movement of goods, people and capital. Those Members who choose to do so will integrate more deeply, possibly even merging with each other in due course. If this approach is taken, membership of the free trade area can be open to all, even including African countries such as Morocco
Aidan, UK

Europe is a group of second-rate nations with third-rate leaders Patrick, USA

The European Union is a farce at best. There is only a fake sense of unity simply to counter the US. There will never be a European Superstate if America has anything to say about it. I know that the Europeans can't wait to have a "counter" against the US, but that will never happen in our lifetime. Europe is a group of second-rate nations with third-rate leaders.
Patrick, USA

The larger EU countries will need more young workers over the next 20-30 years as their domestic population demographics highlight the declining birth-rates in France, Italy and Germany especially. However, these workers will be much cheaper to obtain by legal immigration from Central Europe than by enlarging the EU forever eastwards. The cost to Germany of integrating former East Germany has been huge and it has stunted German growth for a decade. The problem with enlarging the EU with yet more poor countries (like Ireland) is that they drain the larger EU countries of cash for no real net economic benefit. The problem with the EU is that it (unlike the US) pays too much attention to its own politicians and not enough attention to its own economists.
Nigel, UK

I think Europe should not expand further until it has its constitution sorted out, its bureaucracy under control and is certain that it has proper auditing and audit trail procedures relating to all spending and financial transactions. However I believe that the World will eventually divide into three or four main trading groups with some kind of constitutional links and all countries will have to belong to one of those in order to have security and consistent trading conditions.
Keith, England

If everybody is in it, what is the point of having it? John Lawrence, UK

If everybody is in it, what is the point of having it? It will just become a trading and social standards council.
John Lawrence, UK

The EU can choose width or depth, but not both, if it wishes to avoid internal conflict. Personally, I would choose width, with the only qualification for membership being a commitment to free trade and a democratic society. That way, all members can prosper, whilst no-one need suffer under a remote autocracy meddling in their lives.
Neil, England

I consider myself to be rather European in that I am British but live & work on the Continent. However, I feel that the expansion seems to have got out of control - the bureaucrats want to expand their power beyond the limits of Europe & beyond the limits of common sense. The EU costs it's citizens a fortune. I don't want to pay out more of my cash for theoretical regional stability.
Toby, Spain

Is it a group of very closely aligned nations or a European superstate? Chris Irvine, USA

I think it depends on what the E.U. is supposed to become. Is it a group of very closely aligned nations or a European superstate? Europe can't keep putting off this decision. A European superstate will stop expanding at a rate faster than it can reasonably assimilate the new states. It would also have to stop at some point to maintain stable and defendable borders. The alternative is a group of countries aligned closely around a political and economic idea. Such a system could continue to expand the franchise of the E.U. without becoming overly concerned with the day to day decisions of each member state. We Americans are very interested in the outcome.
Chris Irvine, USA

Once the richer countries in the EU realize they are subsidizing lesser countries and nothing more, it will be much, much more difficult for expansion. In addition to the euro, you guys should think of a universal language. It's not very efficient to speak 6 tongues. Eurospeak.
Matt, USA

The EU is the only chance this world has for peace, prosperity and culture. Recent events have shown that common sense still prevails in (most of) Europe. The opportunity to expand and underline European influence must not be wasted, but handled correctly. Europe should expand to embrace any of the countries mentioned above provided that they hold human rights in the highest regard, are willing to give effective aid to developing countries, are democratic, are able to contribute to the economy of Europe through trade, tourism, etc, are mature and secure enough to understand that being a member of the EU does not mean the loss of sovereignty or identity, and are not 'in it' only for what they can get out of it.
Jo, England and France

Quite simply, there is no stopping this monster. If anti-globalists want a target to attack, may I suggest this political and bureaucratic leviathan? It is a lust for power. Nothing more.
G Williams, England

I suspect that the present structure will need major re-design if it is to be made to work for 25 member states Tim Hiscock, UK

I'm quite a fervent supporter of the EU (a bit of a rarity in the UK these days!) but I suspect that the present structure is already creaking and groaning and will need major re-design if it is to be made to work for 25 member states. New members like Poland are Latvia are already showing that they are approaching membership with their own ideas, and are not prepared to be lap-dogs to the major powers of western Europe. This is welcome, but can the current administration cope? I don't think so! Let's start with a directly elected president, chosen by all the citizens of the EU, and given real leadership powers. Perhaps people will then start to feel that they are part of the operation.
Tim Hiscock, UK

The European Union can logically only expand in the territory that is considered Europe, otherwise it cannot call itself the E.U. but become some sort of empire stretching into Asia and Asia Minor. Turkey although a member of NATO can hardly be considered a European country.
George, Canada

Why does the EU need to expand? What benefit is it to the current members if former Soviet republics such as Armenia and Azerbaijan join? Will this not create tensions with Russia? Perhaps the next move will be for Russia to join but equally that may increase the already dodgy relations with the US, perhaps that is the aim!
Gavin, UK