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Last Updated: Monday, 8 December, 2003, 10:54 GMT
Are world leaders failing on Aids?
Aids patient, Honduras
New plans are being launched on Monday, as part of World Aids Day, which will ensure three million people with HIV get the drugs they need by the end of 2005.

Global chiefs say the plans will target those in the world's poorest countries.

An estimated 40 million people are now infected with HIV around the world.

In a message to mark the day, a top health official said tackling Aids might be the toughest health assignment the world has faced.

Are world leaders neglecting Aids? Are rich countries doing enough? Are poor countries failing their own people?

We discussed the global Aids crisis with the UK's Secretary of State for International Development, Hilary Benn, who is responsible for Britain's efforts to help fight Aids around the world.


The following comments reflect the balance of views we received:

The way forward is education
Kevin, UK

HIV drugs are not the solution; they only delay the inevitable and provide more opportunities for the virus to spread further. The way forward is education, until everyone understands the way HIV spreads then, no amount of money and drugs are going to help.
Kevin, UK

Safe sex or no sex and testing is the only way to control HIV/Aids. In the West, we are comfortable with these practices. It's up to the Asian and African leaders to convince their peoples these practices are acceptable. Bush and Blair cannot make Africans use condoms or abstain from sex.
Steve, USA

Rich western countries should spend more money on the Aids problem. This money should be donated to research for finding a cure for the disease but also on decent information and prevention in the critical countries. A change in the moral codes is necessary and not only a drug against the illness. The leaders of the poor countries have to invest the money properly and not put it into their own pockets.
Stijn Debecker, Belgium

If everyone followed the straightforward advice laid out in the Bible of restricting sex to one person of the opposite sex that you are married to then we wouldn't have this problem on the scale that it is now. Its good advice that makes sense isn't hard to follow and has a real impact on the world.
Miriam, England

People in the West should stop deluding themselves that Aids is an African or Asian problem
Lansana Konneh, Sierra Leone/Bangladesh

Aids like terrorism has no national boundary. People in the West should stop deluding themselves that Aids is an African or Asian problem. It is not. Leaders of richer nations have to go out and fight against this terrorist disease now before it reaches them.
Lansana Konneh, Sierra Leone/Bangladesh

As far I am able to judge, world leaders are sensitive to the global Aids problem, as World Aids Day has made clear. However, Aids is the fastest spreading disease in the world and we can not expect world leaders, let alone governments of poor African countries, to keep track of this problem in providing drugs for those infected.

That is why, in my opinion, more money should be spent in prevention campaigns which make people aware that Aids is a life threatening disease but also that there is something that they themselves can tackle .
Kristof, Belgium

Yes most leaders in Africa are failing
Nkusi Sulait, Rwanda

Yes most leaders in Africa are failing. They should do the following: children must be taught to abstain from sex, plays documentaries on Aids awareness must be shown to kids especially in holidays because most of them are redundant. Parents must encourage and promote their kid's talents at early ages this keeps them away from immorality. In Africa getting jobs is very difficult most youths give up and engage in sex. Most couples marry without testing for HIV.
Nkusi Sulait, Rwanda

I think something should have been done a long time before now; it might be easier to control now if it had been prevented from spiralling the way it has.
Sophie, Northern Ireland

All those who lend a deaf ear to the Aids epidemic should be forced to witness the devastation it causes. People who just brush Aids off are either totally distanced from the problem, or they don't care about the suffering of others. Imagine all of our (US) soldiers who are out in Iraq dying. As many tragic deaths as that would be, it wouldn't begin to touch the death count from Aids.
Roger Smith, USA

On a day like World Aids Day promises are being made easily by politicians, but once Christmas has passed, all of their intentions will disappear. Instead of empty promises, concrete action should be undertaken. Different cultures and lifestyles make it a difficult issue, not easy to resolve. An important aspect is not to put all the money in drugs and research, but to spend some more money and energy on prevention.
Vanherwegen Dries, Belgium

There is still much work to do for both the developed and developing countries to make their population aware of the Aids problem
Koen Vanhoutte, Belgium

There is still much work to do for both the developed and developing countries to make their population aware of the Aids problem. The Western countries need to commit to donating money in fighting Aids. Aids afflicted countries need to be supported financially as well as medically. Intensive co-operation is necessary to get a grip on the Aids issue. The battle against Aids is one to be fought on different battlefields.
Koen Vanhoutte, Belgium

Prevention is better than cure - education is the key, and contraception should be promoted in countries where Aids is rife.
Kat Wells, UK

The need to accept HIV/Aids as a reality is what's missing. There are too many pointless arguments about being too liberal around the topic of sex. I think it's the people that need to realise that it's here, and it's very simple to prevent. We all have to do this. What governments everywhere should do, is accept it and communicate with their people.
Juniper, South Africa

Sex is the most active culprit in spreading and catching HIV/Aids. They need to have stricter moral codes to live by
Al Yendall, UK/US

World leaders are not failing on HIV/Aids. The population of their countries are destroying themselves. Sex is the most active culprit in spreading and catching HIV/Aids. They need to have stricter moral codes to live by or die through their own low morals. I do feel sorry for those folk who catch it by blood transfusions etc but they are in the low percentile.
Al Yendall, UK/US

When are world leaders going to stop people from stealing? When are world leaders going to end murder? When are world leaders going to stop teen pregnancies and rape? When are world leaders going to start controlling our individual actions better and start taking more responsibility for each human's actions? I mean, who is accountable here? Don't want Aids? Stop having irresponsible, unprotected sex. It's a rare instance these days when it is passed on through any other means.
David, New York, USA

To Our World Leaders: Donate the money you promise and cap the profits on the drug companies and let our brothers and sisters live at least a respectable life.
Chrissy, USA

Can we not for once look at the human race as a whole instead of the artificial divisions that international borders bring?
Ed, UK

The number of people on this board who say this is not something that the western world needs to concern themselves with is awful. Can we not for once look at the human race as a whole instead of the artificial divisions that international borders bring?

Having spent just a month in Botswana, I have already seen too many sombre funeral parades lining the streets, and talked to too many children whose future doesn't exist thanks to this disease.

Governments in Africa are failing to take the responsibility into their own hands, but it is repulsive to think that that means we shouldn't care either.

Drugs companies need to stop thinking about short term profit margins and give these people the help they desperately need.

Western governments should do all they can to educate those in affected countries as the authorities there seem too embarrassed to talk about contraception and safe sex.

Until the entire world has gained some control over this epidemic, then any chance of the gap between developing and developed countries decreasing is non-existent, which is good for no one other than those who choose to exploit those less well off than themselves.
Ed, UK

I think more pressure needs to be placed on world leaders on a regular to make Aids their every day concern. Goals should be set by each country to achieve. Poor countries cannot handle this crisis - they need our help. I intend to increase my donations and will encourage my church to adopt a family or a village in need with Aids. Schools and businesses could do this too. I think this could make importance differences.
Doris, Massachusetts, USA

How is it that the world's most powerful countries don't think twice in starting a war just for political and economic reasons, when they seem reluctant in fighting this centuries' biggest humanitarian battle against Aids?
Vera Smith, Spain

African leaders are condemning their people with their ignorant and ineffectual approach to this pandemic. The developed world should not bear the responsibility for Africa's failings.
Robert Lorenzo, UK

I generally support the decisions of the western governments (Iraq etc) however I can not understand how these leaders can not see that money and finance are irrelevant when the future of our people is in grave danger. Do it for free, and cancel world debt while your at it.
Michael Wallace, Glasgow, Scotland

It is individuals who are failing. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the fault lies with the individual infected. Simply put, do not engage in high risk behaviour and your chances of contracting the virus drop to practically zero.
Jeff, USA

There are still too many people unaware about Aids. The first thing global leaders should accomplish, is make the population aware of the virus' status. It is still the people who would contribute most to the Aids crisis, not only global leaders.
Christopher van Opstal, Australia

The whole world is suffering from Aids. However, the richer countries are best equipped to fight this disease. We, in the West, need to help those in the rest of the world who do not have the resources to help themselves.
Jane Jupe, Canada

Safer sex is a step in the right direction along with education
Leigh Simpson, UK
When the plague went through Europe and Asia during the Middle Ages the only way to stop it was through a lifestyle change. People had to become cleaner and more aware of hygiene. I dare say the same will have to be done with Aids, for many people a lifestyle change will be necessary to help stop the spread of it.
Safer sex is a step in the right direction along with education. Areas suffering from Aids will need aid to implement these measures, but through bureaucracy and corruption how much money will actually get through to where it is needed most.
Leigh Simpson, UK

As harsh as it might seem, other nations cannot rightfully be asked to subsidize the medical care of those in other nations where moral standards and sexual practices refuse to change. Changes in moral standards and sexual practices to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases must come first, and other nations must end their reluctance to educate and enforce such changes to halt the spread of deadly diseases. The rest of the world refuses to pay for the pleasures of the sexually licentious.
Robert Morpheal, Canada

The target (rather ironically) misses the point. Drugs don't cure Aids - nothing does - they merely manage the symptoms of HIV and slow the onset of the disease. Until we tackle the much harder task of prevention, the Aids epidemic will never be controlled.
Damian Leach, UK

I think what the world leaders should do is to help arrange a committee that will really look into the aids epidemics cause its really biting hard into nations. There is nothing that does not have solution, maybe they should look god's way cause in my church HIV patients with confirmed reports are healed by the power of God. I think the only physician for aids is god in heaven.
Joshua Adams Fred, Nigeria

India is fast becoming the most AIDS affected country in the world. We have certainly taken some measures, but they are certainly not enough. When Bill Gates pledged a big amount to the AIDS organisations of India, a senior Indian minister commented that Mr Gates is blowing the issue out of proportions. If this is the attitude that we have towards this dreaded disease, then I fear for the worst in India.
Ajith Antony, India

We should support governments who are trying to help tackle this world scale crisis - no matter where the aid comes from. But where are the philanthropic drug companies? WWII saw the introduction of penicillin - smallpox polio have almost been eradicated. The eradication of AIDS need total world co-operation - please -
Viv Watson, Great Britain

AIDS/HIV is a human endemic that threatens us all. Due to global migration and travel, it concerns us all. Whether it is spreading in Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe, it poses a deadly threat to the entire human race, until it is finally eradicated or contained by drugs. It is in the interests of the entire human race to use all available medical technology to stop the disease wherever it arises. Before it mutates and finds new ways of reproducing itself.
Peter Dalby, UK author in Denmark

I do not understand why it is always the US and or Europe that are responsible to educate the rest of the world concerning this issue when the countries in question continue to fail to help themselves.
Bernard Mastren, USA

AIDS is both a disease and a symptom of the scourge of poverty. Many people in Africa and elsewhere are forced into increased-risk lifestyles by the hopelessness of their economic circumstances. For this reason the West certainly can do a lot to address the spread of AIDS. Indeed the West is morally obliged to, for we are the beneficiaries of that same unjust economic system that holds others in poverty - with results as devastating as AIDS.
Nick Gill, United Kingdom

I am afraid that leaders of rich nations will not take significant action until the epidemic reaches their own country
Mary McCannon, Hungary
This problem is getting similar to the Kyoto climate change agreement: pointing fingers to the others, which will lead to nowhere. I am afraid that leaders of rich nations will not take significant action until the epidemic reaches their own country. And that will be far too late.
Mary McCannon, Hungary

I have listened to your various programmes on the HIV/AIDS pandemic. The youth must be encouraged in all ways to have hope in the future. That they can live to fulfil their dreams and ambitions. We can overcome AIDS through self discipline in all areas of our lives. This is a message I would like to see the media portray. I believe that the press and media can play a role by promoting positive behavioural practices especially abstinence and faithfulness as a form of self discipline. These are not impossible things but require hard work and discipline but are the road less travelled.
Moses Isyagi, Uganda

This issue seems to have been at the bottom of the priority list with our governments. It's about time our leaders woke up, since there is no vaccination if their loved ones were found to be suffering.
Khalil, England

It's nice to see many people agreeing on here for once. What more can our leaders do? If these countries' leaders or people won't follow advice then there's no hope for them.
Nick, UK

World leaders have failed miserably on Aids with the sole exception of President George Bush who has pledged 15 billion dollars in help. What have the other major powers done? Spewed a lot of useless hot air, that's what!
Mark, USA

This has got nothing to do with world leaders - more to do with education and the power of the Catholic Church (especially in Africa) who have refused to allow the use of contraceptives.
Mark, UK

People seem to be angry at the US's refusal to give cheap drugs and contraception. But I would like to remind you that the reason for this is because this is just a reflection of our domestic policy, We do not have federally funded programs to give condoms to people in our country, so why would we have a different set of standards for any other country? Our policies, however disagreeable, are just an extension of our domestic ones so people shouldn't expect a double standard in US policy.
Tristan, Richmond Va., USA

We should stop blaming the USA and Western Europe
Peter Downing, UK
My concern would be to ensure Hilary Benn does not spend tax money on this. If people want to spend their money on Aids there are plenty of charities. Why not get the Catholic Church to fund work on Aids, people choose to follow their irrational beliefs this is the result. We should also ask what the African countries are doing about it. We should stop blaming the USA and Western Europe.
Peter Downing, UK

Aids is a monster that never selects. Therefore, the world leaders must work together in this war against Aids.
Alfred Drazi, USA

It's not so much world leaders that are failing on Aids, it's the religious leaders and people's attitudes. Nobody in the west can be unaware about Aids but the disease is still spreading. If we can't control the spread in our own countries, how does Kofi Annan expect us to stop it in Africa? South Africa's slow reaction to Aids was the most shameful episode of all, the west can't be held responsible for their leaders behaviour.
Fred, England

It seems to me that all doors are closed on the faces of the boasting leaders and scientists now. They may never be able to find a unique solution for this unending crisis.
Austin, India

The USA committed 15 billion in fighting Aids. What more do you want from us? If you still need more money, go knock on the Europeans' doors. It's time the poor countries realize that they can't continue having unprotected intercourse and then come crying and blaming the West for not helping.
John, USA

How can world leaders possibly fail on the issue? We might say the countries that suffer most with the virus do not to enough on a political level but since no cure actually exist there cannot be failing on world leaders part. As for putting large amounts of money into counter terrorism and the Iraq affair, well lets just say should such moneys have gone to aids, realistically what would have been achieved by it?... I doubt a cure, world leaders are not that clever, for that is science and something to be achieved by the medical professions.
Richard Sweetman, England

It is easy to blame "world leaders" - but the true problem is social backwardness
Andrew Walden, USA
It is easy to blame "world leaders" - but the true problem is social backwardness on the ground in Aids afflicted areas like Africa. Even when drugs are made available for free, prejudice, superstition, and fear keep people for taking them. Sadly, this problem will not be corrected in time to save most of Africa's Aids sufferers.
Andrew Walden, USA

There is still this notion that HIV/Aids is a gay disease. Of course, we all know now that it affects people of all ethnicities, genders, socioeconomic backgrounds, sexual identities, and spiritual inclinations, etc. Having said that, I do believe that world leaders are messing up when it comes to HIV/Aids, especially here in the USA. The government pledges $15 billion to help people in Africa living with HIV/Aids (a noble cause) but it can't help fighting HIV/Aids at home, when there are new cases of the virus popping up every day, especially among senior citizens!
Alex Sarmiento, USA

Apart from the money we really need governments specifically in developing nations to take extra steps to educate the masses about Aids. Cultural and religious bigotry play an important part in discriminating against those who carry the virus leaving them as outcast etc. Many therefore out of fear of being victimised carry on with their sexual activities thereby passing on the virus to unwary individuals.

The sad part is that the poverty levels in these developing nations are high thus turning people more to drugs ,prostitution etc., thus feeding into the Aids epidemic. So lets educate the politicians and religious leaders to take up the fight against the dreaded virus.
Arif Sayed, Dubai, UAE

The only way to stop Aids is to find a cure. It may be a cruel thing to say but one of the reasons the disease is successful is its long incubation period and transmission by the most natural of human acts. You can't educate Aids out of a continent; you can't make people use contraceptives even though it will save their lives. The only thing to do is make sure that all the investment necessary is going into researching a cure.
Huw, Wales

The world leaders should get a grip on the issue. Education on this subject is the key issue. Family planning units should cover this issue and sex matters should be discussed openly with the local inhabitants.
Allie, USA

Whilst money can buy the medicines that provide aid and comfort for those with the Aids virus, they do not cure it. It is a change of lifestyle and sexual habits more than anything. Cheaper drugs will not stop the Aids epidemic and the focus has to be more on what causes Aids to begin with.
Randy, USA

I am appalled at this situation
Ani, Canada
The world leaders are failing on all account except when it comes to going to war. I am appalled at this situation. Countries like Armenia who have developed medication like Americium that seems to be working on Aids patients are not being given a chance to distribute on a wider scale. I guess pharmaceutical companies in the West would lose a lot of money. It's all about power and money. This situation will only get worse.
Ani, Canada

Even though African countries have the worst case for Aids today, we need to have other countries to become involved in the measures needed to combat this deadly disease. China, India, Brazil and the like that have large numbers of such patients, should form a world wide task force to ensure positive preventive steps are taken to stop the further spread of Aids. A proper understanding of the problem is urgent, otherwise people will look upon the victims as lepers.
Brian M., Canada

The majority of world leaders are failing on the whole Aids crisis. The US has not done enough, but Europe had done practically nothing. Why should the US be held responsible for everything gone wrong in the world? Poor countries should also shoulder the blame. Many men in third world countries are given condoms, yet the adamantly refuse to wear them. In order to be helped, one must first help his or herself!
Patrick, USA

Developed rich countries, without doubt, should provide more support to help combat Aids. There may not be a cure for the disease yet, however, there are many medicines that would vastly improve the lifespan of these people, if they could only afford them. For example, the average lifespan of someone newly diagnosed with HIV in the developed world is about 10-12 years, however, this is generally 6 months - a year in underdeveloped countries, a vast difference. Alongside drug funding, more money should be put into educating people on the risk of Aids and to help orphaned children who have lost their parents to this awful disease.
Sarah, UK

Having worked in Southern Africa on HIV and Aids prevention programmes and met Aids orphans and seen the damage the disease is doing to the countries, it is clear that much more money need to be given from the West to support educational programmes where local people teach each other HIV prevention. Aids is totally preventable and education is where the money needs to be spent. Surely it is better to stop people getting Aids in the first place than for very poor people to have to spend money on drugs?
Ros, UK

Clearly there are world leaders able to talk the talk, but where are they when it comes time to walk the walk?
Jeffrey Wheeler, USA
George W. Bush pushed through $15 billion for Aids in the developing world, a move that Jacques Chirac praised to the hilt. Yet the European Union, whose nations have a combined economy greater than the United States, pledged a wimpy $1.2 billion for the same time-frame. Clearly there are world leaders able to talk the talk, but where are they when it comes time to walk the walk?
Jeffrey Wheeler, USA

Although this is a terrible disease, Kofi Annan should be targeting those corrupt African Leaders and politicians to be doing something about it. Our pockets simply are not big enough when the African countries themselves do nothing!
Stuart, UK

Yes, they are failing. So much more can be done to prevent HIV and help those affected. The orphans of Aids need TLC and basic life support such as food, housing etc. I do what I can, now it's their turn too also do what they can.
Elisabeth, the Netherlands

Rich countries have done enough to combat Aids in the Third World. The problem now lies with the people around the world who still don't use the available contraception, even after years of education programs, advertising, and celebrity trips.
Andy, UK

Aids is being neglected - this is a world killer. In Zimbabwe the population we is dying at a rate of 14000 per week! I don't think the world would be so lethargic if a first world super power was threatened in this way. Do you?
Brent Stapelkamp, Zimbabwe/UK

Aids is becoming a global problem. In my country, thousands of people have Aids every year. It doesn't mean that we are failed though. Our leaders tried their best to prevent it becoming widespread in areas. However, the main reason is that Aids victims don't have enough knowledge to protect themselves and other people from Aids. And our problem now is to solve how to awake their humanity and to held activities for them to take part in.
Tra, Vietnam

I believe the US has put their best foot forward in preventing the spread of Aids. But more can still be done. But what is tragic is that the US has been under the spotlight for too long that the rest of the world is just taking them for granted. Just recently Bush announced an Emergency Plan for Aids Prevention that would prevent an estimate of 7 million new infections. US hands have always been far reaching out while the rest are just at arm's length. This Aids pandemic will increase exponentially if the world continues to unilaterally fingerprint who should do what.
Mel Lee, Selangor, Malaysia

Just seeing the suffering of Aids victims in Africa shows that we are failing, and the fact that the problem still exists shows we are not doing enough.
Alex Marshall, UK

Some blame must lie with the Governments of poorer countries for failing to communicate the simple precautions necessary to prevent the spread of Aids. And of course the religious leaders who actively promote the non-use of these precautions!
Dan, UK

Shouldn't the question be "Is the world population failing on Aids?" It's time that individuals took responsibility for their actions and used condoms.
Keith, UK

We can spend billions of pounds destroying lives on the planet but only a fraction of this amount in saving them
David McInally, Glasgow, Scotland
One of the main reasons that Africa is suffering so much is that they cannot afford the drugs to combat this disease. Large pharmaceutical corporations are fleecing Africans by forcing them to buy their expensive drugs through loan deals from the likes of the US which are approved by the IMF and World Bank. When the loans cannot be repaid this gives countries like the US the opportunity to come in and basically rape the countries commodities in order to help repay these loans at large interest rates. This is indicative of actions sanctioned throughout South America by the US and highlights the fact that money is clearly more important to these people than human lives. We can spend billions of pounds destroying lives on the planet but only a fraction of this amount in saving them.
David McInally, Glasgow, Scotland

Poor countries should redirect some of the funds they spend on armaments to prevention and treatment of disease. The countries who supply the armaments could also help by insisting on a "care pact" with each armaments sale for example by requiring that the buyer spends the same amount again as the value of the armaments sale on social items to help fight hunger, disease, etc. Goods bought for fighting enemies should be accompanied by an equal value of goods for fighting human ills.
John M, Lyne Meads, UK

World leaders in the West are neglecting the Aids issue. They will only address the issue severely when the situation reaches the levels in Africa and Asia. In asking oneself why, the question of severe overpopulation in most of the affected countries comes to the forefront. It may be a difficult subject to address with millions dying and certainly should not be a reason to ignore the issue, however it may be one reason. With massive population increases over the past few decades in countries which are not able to support themselves, perhaps the richer nations of the west are reluctant to offer the required assistance. I hope this is completely inaccurate, but supporting these countries costs money and the influx of immigrants to the West is rising. Does anyone else have a better idea why the assistance is lacking.
Matt, Germany

I think in Europe it is: "Every country has to solve its own problems, for the moment we can't afford to help". With the USA it's something totally different. The administration would like to ban contraceptives (esp. condoms) in its OWN country and has already cut spending on national and international programs because they refuse 'abstinence only' programs. Providing cheap medical treatment is considered an 'impediment to free trade' and punished with sanctions. So without an economic boom in Europe and a regime change in America the situation is going to become worse not better.
Hartmut B., Germany

I hardly see the news highlighting Aids epidemic. I think western countries are doing too little and failing to recognize the seriousness of this infection. I believe it is a duty of all western countries to contribute whatever they could in eradicating aids. I however feel that they are too busy fighting wars thus treating aids as a minor issue. What is astonishing is that one case of Aids in Europe will create a big headline but 100 else where will not be important.
Neil P, UK

There has been too much hysteria around AIDS with overblown media coverage
Timothy Bangura, Sierra Leone/UK
I don't think AIDS is being neglected if anything I think too much money is being spent on what is a perfectly preventable disease. There has been too much hysteria around Aids with overblown media coverage and sensationalist claims by the UN and other organisations, which somehow never seem to materialize. Does anyone hold these people accountable for the statements they make?
Timothy Bangura, Sierra Leone/UK

Like all Capitalist based states, the West sees the advance of Aids in purely economic terms. It makes little economic sense to give much help to those millions infected each year. Most aid only arrives after a great catastrophe and I don't think the western world will finally rise up to combat it until the pandemic has ravaged the populations of Africa and Asia. After all, what political glory is there in fighting a war which at the moment appears unwinnable?
It is callousness and Kofi Annan is shining a light into the darkest corners of our society, I only wish I believed it would make even the slightest difference.
Kevin Hiley, UK

It's a little too easy to criticize the U.S. and the European Union. When we know how much of the money given in the past went to support corrupt governments - and probably still does, when we hear at least one African leader deny that Aids comes from unprotected sex, when virgins are prized by older men - often contaminated and nothing is done - is this the fault of other countries? When is Africa going to be held responsible for at least a part of its problems itself?
Martine, France

World leaders from rich countries are too busy trying to find WMD which don't exist, but they see millions of people who are dying in poor countries which do not produce oil. It seems, unfortunately, rich countries want to rip off poor countries further by selling their drugs at high prices, yet they talk about "civilized nations". God bless the rich nations!
Sam Kuruneru, Hong Kong




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