Tory troubles

Jeremy Vine interviewed Crispin Blunt MP, Conservative, Reigate and Lord Strathclyde, Conservative Peer.

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Crispin Blunt MP

Jeremy Vine: Well let's speak now to the Conservative MP, Crispin Blunt who quite the front-bench in may because he didn't believe Iain Duncan Smith could win another election.

Are you feeling - an election at all. Are you feeling you've been proved right by what's happening now.

Crispin Blunt: The essential thing is we've either got to give our leader the authority to lead us in to the next election or we've got to initiate the process of choosing a new leader.

We cannot leave him and the party in the position that we are in with constant speculation around his position.

Jeremy Vine: Can you do one without the other. Can you give him the authority without having some kind of contest.

Crispin Blunt: No. I think the only way that he can be, he can get that authority, is through an overt vote of confidence by the parliamentary party.

He will either win that and then the issue will be put to bed and you and your colleagues will not be able to go on speculating about his position or he will lose it, and we will then get on and choose a new leader for the party.

Jeremy Vine: There was talk in the papers to-day of plots to replace Mr Duncan Smith before the Queen's speech, which is at that end of November. Do you know anything about that.

Crispin Blunt: Well I think that's frankly, no, I know nothing about it and I think it's a distraction and this investigation in to the payment of his wife is also a distraction.

We must assume he will be exonerated by Sir Philip Mawer; it is a complete red herring as far as his wider ability to lead the party is concerned. It's that issue my colleagues have got to face up to now.

Jeremy Vine: You basically believe Mr Duncan Smith cannot win the next election under any circumstances.

Crispin Blunt: Well I would invite my colleagues to turn the board round and look at it from the point of view of our opponents. Would they prefer to face Mr Iain Duncan Smith or would they prefer to face a shadow cabinet containing Ken Clark, Michael Howard, Michael Portillo, Oliver Letwin, David Davis, Michael Ancram, perhaps bringing back Malcolm Rifkind as Chairman of the party from outside parliament. That sort of team begins to look like a pretty formidable alternative government in waiting.

Jeremy Vine: Crispin Blunt, thank you very much indeed.

END OF FIRST INTERVIEW

INTO SECOND INTERVIEW

Jeremy Vine: Now we were expecting to be talking live to-day to Theresa May, Conservative Party Chairman and very much at the heart of the row about Betsy Duncan Smith. We were told on Friday that Theresa May would not be giving any interviews after all, on instructions from above. Instead we're delighted to be joined by Lord Strathclyde, Conservative Leader in the House of Lords and member of the Shadow Cabinet. Good afternoon.

Lord Strathclyde

Lord Strathclyde: Good afternoon.

Jeremy Vine: The thrust of what Mr Blunt was just saying there was that you can't win with Mr Duncan Smith. Certainly not going on like this.

Lord Strathclyde: Well Crispin has a bit of a history of this. Only a few months ago he said, Follow me, and let's try and get rid of Iain Duncan Smith and nobody did.

Jeremy Vine: He might be regretting it now.

Lord Strathclyde: Well the solution lies entirely in the hands of the parliamentary party, my colleagues in the House of Commons. There are rules and the rules say that if there are twenty five MP s who write to the Chairman of the 1922 Committee, then there will be an election, there will be a vote of confidence and I think that's the way to go through.

But at the moment what we are faced with is a leader who has been accused of very serious crimes; these are very serious allegations that he and his wife colluded together, to give her a great deal of money for absolutely no work. And it's now up to the Parliamentary Commissioner to decide whether or not those things are true.

Iain Duncan Smith says he's innocent and I believe him, and I believe that he will be cleared and then we can get on with what the Conservatives need to do, which is to be a strong alternative government in waiting, a strong opposition, coming up with the kinds of policies that people believe will make a difference to their lives.

Jeremy Vine: Right, but the plots were going on before what's been described as Betsygate. Do you think that Mr Duncan Smith should stand down? Do you think twenty five signatures should be collected?

Lord Strathclyde: No I don't and I think that the reason why they haven't been collected is because most of the parliamentary party don't believe that they should sign this paper. And at any rate, I also think that in the Conservative Party, people want to see the outcome of this process that the Parliamentary Commissioner is now going through, just to make sure that the leader, Iain Duncan Smith is exonerated.

Jeremy Vine: But one of your senior, very senior colleagues, Sir Patrick Cormack, who's on the Executive of the powerful 1922 Back Bench Committee said, we can see his quote on the screen, 'It would be completely dishonest to say he, Mr Duncan Smith, has the united support of a united party in parliament at any level. We really need to bring this thing to a head. You do, don't you.

Lord Strathclyde: But Patrick Cormack of all people since he is on the Executive of the '22, knows that there are established rules for dealing with problem and it only takes twenty five signatures to trigger an election process and if Patrick really believes that there is, there are this seething mass of malcontent on the back benches of the Conservative Party, then they should be following him and writing to the Chairman of the '22, Sir Michael Spicer.

Jeremy Vine: But I get the impression you wouldn't mind necessarily if that happened because it would clear the air.

Lord Strathclyde: Yeah I don't, I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it would necessarily clear the air because I don't think the air needs to be cleared. What does need to be sorted out are these monstrous allegations against the Leader of the Party, of how much money he was giving his wife and the fact that she was doing little or no work for it.

That's what's got to be cleared up and that is what the parliamentary commission, I hope is going to do, in accordance with natural justice in, proper proceedings, very quickly, over the course of the next few weeks.

Jeremy Vine: There are other questions as well as this issue of what Betsy Duncan Smith actually did for the money. Vanessa Gearson, who's at the centre of Conservative Central Office, there are allegations to do with the fact that she may have been put under pressure to back Mr Duncan Smith's account of the arrangements in his private office. If it is true that she was pressured to back Mr Duncan Smith when she didn't want to, that would be quite outrageous, would it not.

Lord Strathclyde: I know Vanessa Gearson, I haven't spoken to her over the course of the last couple of weeks. I'm sure what she's going to do is to speak honestly about her point of view.

Jeremy Vine: She's not been pressured at all.

Lord Strathclyde: She's handed in, she has handed in a dossier of evidence. That evidence must be reviewed by the Parliamentary Commissioner and then let's see what comes out at the end of it. But Mr Duncan Smith has protested his innocence, and I believe him.

Jeremy Vine: Mr Duncan Smith has not for example sent her, or anyone in Central Office, a solicitor's letter which threatens them with anything, should they not back up his story.

Lord Strathclyde: I'm certainly not aware of it. I'm not aware of statements being thrust under people's noses and people being asked to sign them, but that's what the Commissioner has to ....

Jeremy Vine: That's not what I said.

Lord Strathclyde: .... has to sort out, and I hope that he'll do that. And do it quickly. I mean these are very important issues affecting the Leader of the Opposition of this Country. Not just the Conservative Party, this is the Leader of the Opposition, this is a very important post, and the sooner we get this cleared up the better.

Jeremy Vine: The really bit issue for you of course is that you can't attack Labour in this situation can you.

Lord Strathclyde: Well we'd like attack Labour. I mean in this extraordinary week where first of all we've seen the Head of the Ministry of Defence accuse the Prime Minister of lying about where he was when decisions were taken about David Kelly.

We have seen this weekend, the inter-governmental conference, selling us down the river on the new European Constitution and only this morning, the press reporting that Gordon Brown who I know has got other issues to deal with to-day and well done him, but threatening to tax people when they sell their houses, for 40% of their value.

These are serious political issues that affect the whole nation and it's what we need to get back to.

NB: this transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.

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