Liberal Democrats on a high

The Liberal Democrats kick off their party conference on a high following their spectacular by-election win in Brent East. Jeremy Vine interviewed Rt Hon Menzies Campbell MP, Lib Dem Deputy Leader.

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Jeremy Vine interviewed Rt Hon Menzies Campbell MP

Vine: I spoke to the Liberal Democrats' Deputy Leader, Menzies Campbell and I asked him if his party was becoming more sceptical about Europe.

Campbell: Well I didn't recognise quite a lot of that film; for example, I was at the meeting in July that Max Cotton referred to, it didn't take place in the terms he's described.

The document which we produced this week, which he held up in the course of the film sets out an entirely realistic approach towards Europe, it says quite rightly that defence and taxation and foreign policy, these are issues which have to remain the responsibility of the United Kingdom government, and the United Kingdom parliament, but where we can co-operate and more effectively deal with issues like for example the environment, then we're perfectly happy to do that in Europe.

It's a realistic approach and it's a long long way from the kind of Euro scepticism which we hear day and daily from the Conservatives.

Vine: So no one came up to Charles Kennedy and said, hang on a second, if we're going to be an opposition party, you really have to tone down your enthusiasm for Europe.

Campbell: If anyone said that to Charles Kennedy or to me they'd be told that we would not be toning it down, they'd also be told of course that on the single currency that John Burnett referred to in the film, our party under Paddy Ashdowne was the first to say that this was a decision of such importance that there ought to be a referendum, that the British people should have an opportunity to decide and also on the question of the constitution for Europe which is currently under discussion, we have argued very strongly that since it makes changes to the relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union, there ought to be a referendum on that. We are very anxious that the people should speak on issues of European importance.

Vine: People are speaking inside your party aren't they and there's evidently quite a bit difference of opinion. We saw two of your MP s there, Paul Tyler for one saying the Euro is not an article of faith, that is off message isn't it.

Campbell: Not at all. I mean it's a liberal party which sets out in its constitution a series of values and principles and I can tell you, none of these values or principles are membership of the single European currency.

But I'm in no doubt whatsoever that it's in the long term best interests of the people of the United Kingdom that we should be a member of the single currency and I've talked to John Burnett about membership.

What he's anxious about is that the economies should be sufficiently convergent so that if we were to enter we wouldn't suffer some terrible catastrophe in our own economic position and if I can just finish this.

Vine: Yeah.

Campbell: And that's why we should announce our intention of doing so and then begin to implement policies so that at the moment of joining convergence can be achieved.

Vine: Right but post Brent East people are starting to say, my goodness maybe the Lib Dems fancy themselves as the opposition party and yet you have this chasm in you, in your party over Europe don't you.

Campbell: It's not a chasm.

Vine: Well you disagree with Paul Tyler.

Campbell: Not at - not in the slightest. He and I have been political allies for all the time we have both been in parliament.

Vine: With John Burnett.

Campbell: With John Burnett there's a difference of emphasis but we both agree that on issues of the importance of the constitution and of joining the currency, then the people ought to be allowed to speak.

Vine: He says he would have voted no in Sweden.

Campbell: In Sweden, but Sweden remember is a country with a long history of neutrality. It took the Swedes a very considerable jump to join the European Union at all and it's perhaps not surprising that they still retain some anxiety.

Remember too - one of the reasons in Sweden why people weren't for joining was they didn't want to go away from the entirely public supported high taxation regime which they enjoy at the moment because they thought that if they joined the European Union they'd be subject to far too much competition.

Well of course, that's the very opposite of the reason that Conservatives put forward in this country. They say the problem with the European Union is there isn't enough competition.

Vine: Let's just have a look on the screen at a Charles Kennedy quote. He said this in 2003. 'Now is the time to hold a referendum on the Euro, the five tests have been met. Holding a referendum is a political necessity'; so that means your party believes going in now is the right thing to do.

Campbell: Going in now with a programme of policy to ensure convergence and also with the government giving up the timidity which has haunted its policy towards Europe. Mr Blair is the Prime Minister who came in and said he wanted Britain to be at the heart of Europe and yet in the six years in which he's been in office he has consistently turned down opportunities to bring that about.

We will not persuade people to join the single European currency on the basis of a three week referendum campaign. You have to start and educate them. You have got to start and implement the policies which will achieve convergence so that when you come to the point of decision, it is as much a matter of natural and logical progress as it is of anything else.

Vine: But he says, the five tests have been met ... (overlap)

Campbell: (overlaps) Well they have ...

Vine: ... he thinks convergence has happened. You believe we should go in now.

Campbell: The five tests are all entirely political. They were designed to allow Gordon Brown to say they had or had not been met and of course what they did when the five tests were published were to say, well in some respects two and a half of them haven't been met, we're going to come back to that in twelve months time.

None of us I think believes that there's going to be a referendum in this parliament and as a consequence I believe the United Kingdom will suffer.

Vine: Just looking again at the Lib Dems as a potential party of, or a main party of opposition. I'm not sure how you're going to pick up disaffected conservative voters with these views on the Euro. But also at your conference this week, you've got to vote on the monarchy which raises the possibility of it being dismantled. How do you attract Conservative voters with that.

Campbell: Well this is a policy which allows people to determine how we manage our constitutional arrangements in this country and I don't think there's anyone in the country who doesn't believe that it's time to look again at the way in which our constitution is run, in particular what's the so called royal prerogative which is essentially the prerogative of the Prime Minister. I don't ... (interjects)

Vine: But an elected Head of State.

Campbell: Well, we're going to discuss that. For my own part - I shall vote against the motion because I think what we need is not an elected Head of State, but what we need is a reformed monarchy, sometimes described on the continent as a bicycling monarchy.

The kind of monarchy which has been sustained in for example Belgium and Holland where it takes a constitutional role but where the levers of power remain firmly in the control of the democratically elected parliament.

I think it's time we looked again at the whole system by which we govern ourselves in constitutional terms and I don't think there's anyone who's particularly happy at the way for example that Buckingham Palace has been regarded in recent years. I think it's time to start again.

Vine: So to sum up, in a word, anybody who thinks that you are becoming more Euro sceptic because you want to gather Conservative votes would be mistaken.

Campbell: Certainly. Anyone who thinks that we are European realists as Paul Tyler described a moment or two ago in that film, would have it exactly right.

That is our position. We want Britain to be at the heart of Europe but we want Britain to be at the heart of Europe in such a way that we continue to manage the things which we best manage ourselves and in Brussels manage the things which can only be managed on an international and co-operative basis.

Vine: Ming Campbell, good to see you. Thanks very much indeed.

NB: this transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.

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