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Friday, 14 February, 2003, 17:29 GMT
Will the public's views on war make a difference?
The BBC's Iraq: Britain Decides day is featuring a range of programmes and events to reflect views and opinions on the possible war with Iraq. Politicians may not be able to agree, but opinion polls across Europe suggest that without a further UN resolution, most people are against war on Iraq. Anti-war protests have been taking place across the continent, as well as in Russia, Indonesia and Korea. And in Australia and the USA several hundred women spelt out anti-war slogans using their naked bodies. This Saturday will see major demonstrations in cities around the world, including huge rallies in Glasgow, London and major American cities. However, protest expert Professor Peter Waddington has told the BBC that governments are unlikely to be swayed by protests of any size. Will public opinion on war make a difference? Will you be joining the protests? Or do you disagree with the anti-war movement? This Talking Point is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
John, UK
I have two points to make: 1. The countryside alliance got 500,000 people and that didn't seem to make much difference to policy. 2. If 500,000 people do turn up, what everyone seems to forget is the other 50 million people in the country who are not there. Too often people concentrate on who is making the loudest noise and forgetting those who are not there.
At least we in the UK can protest about unpopular decisions - the people of Iraq don't have that right. Try to think about that when you go marching eh? When the tanks roll into Baghdad (and they will, mark my words) the people will welcome us with open arms. Then we'll see how many people disagree with the decision to intervene. Rob, UK
Blair's job is to make the right decisions, not the popular ones!
Public opinion will make no difference whatsoever to Bush or Blair. However, it will make a huge difference to the morale our unfortunate troops who have been sent to the Middle East. War without the support of the people is a non starter.
If the expression of public opinion does not make a difference to government policy, then surely we should be asking ourselves whether we really do live in a true "democracy". When this war commences, the relations to suffer the most will be between our "elected" politicians and their electorate. The use of force against public judgement will undermine the very principles Western governments are fighting for: democracy.
I don't have much time for those who protest against this war, not because I am a warmonger but simply because I think that even if an invading army was storming down our very streets, a lot of the anti-war lobby would still be protesting against war. However, neither am I convinced by the arguments for a war against Iraq. Whilst I know Saddam's a tyrant etc. so are many others. Furthermore, we in the west call ourselves "civilised" yet it was the US Government, which helped to install Saddam, so let's not kid ourselves that we are any more civilised than anyone else. Our countries may live in relative peace and relative freedom but that is bought and paid for by the support for repressive regimes abroad.
William Hebb, Netherlands
Britain Decides changed my mind completely regarding the war. I was totally against it because I could not handle the idea that children will die because of US and UK interests. Now, after listening to the Iraqi man yesterday revealing the daily death of children because of tyranny and poverty, I now believe it is for the best to remove Saddam and create a safe and new life for these people. But, still I say, it should be done under the UN resolution only.
Most people in Britain know the real motives for this war. Every item of so called evidence of Saddam's weapons programmes and weapons of mass destruction has proved to be a rehash of old evidence. This war is not about national security it is about oil and western imperialism in the Middle East. This will be spelt out clearly by the demonstrators who will be carrying placards and banners saying no blood for oil. A massive demo like this will help sway public opinion even more against this war and so further isolate Bush and Blair with their war plans. It will make a difference.
£750 million to fund the war- not with my tax money Mr Blair! The NHS needs money, teachers would like a bit more each month and students want to go to universities. Spend it on these things rather than turning Baghdad to dust! Those in agreement- see you on Saturday.
Will the public's views on war make a difference?
Well correct me if I am wrong but I thought the UK was a democratic country and as such are not the government merely our elected representatives? Therefore surely public opinion is the only thing that should count with regards to whether or not we go to war.
So many people are protesting about the possibility of war in Iraq saying "no direct threat to this country" and similar things.
Then on a different issue you hear them protesting about how we should become more closely involved in Europe etc.
I am a man of 69 yrs born in London
lived in the East End through the Blitz, even to our house being damaged. After coming through the War, I do support the British Government on their stance - sometimes is it the only way. There was a saying careless talk costs lives and I do agree that the Government should not disclose information, after all we elected them to look after the country and sometimes drastic action has to be taken when we are threatened.
Jason K, UK
French and German opposition to the possible war has nothing to do with their concern about the right or wrong of the matter. They are worried that once the cards are down it will emerge that the majority of companies who have supplied material and help to Iraq in breach of UN resolutions are French and German and this will not be the first time.
With all of you protesting against the war, I wonder why none of you offer any solutions? Isn't it something that all of you Brits can protest without offering a better solution? Thank God for Tony Blair.
Victoria (USA) misses the point. Being against a pointless, bullying, war does not mean one has to find a solution to a perceived problem. It is surely legitimate to protest that this is the wrong choice of many options. My own view is that, since Iraq has been consistently severe with Islamic extremists and not bothered its neighbours for 12 years, there is no justification for interfering with its government. After all, many people regard the American president as considerably more dangerous than Saddam Hussein. I don't hear any of them suggesting bombing the US into a change of leader!
Victoria from the USA asks for someone from the UK to offer a better solution? How about the UN? How about weapons inspectors? Even better, how about not having such biased foreign policies in the Middle East which breed these kind of Anti-American states? Or, and here's a novel thought, how about you stop making mistakes like you did with Afghanistan, funding, training and arming these governments because at the time it is convenient. Just because the UK isn't full of warmongers doesn't mean we support Saddam!
We have proposed an alternative. Tripling the level of inspectors and backing them up with UN troops would effectively neutralise Iraq as an immediate threat. War should always be a last resort (though it is neccessary and cannot always be avoided), but America seems to want to use it as the first resort.
And while Iraq is damped down we can deal with North Korea before that country nukes South Korea or Japan or even the Western seaboard of the US.
The protests themselves are unlikely to make any difference, no matter what size. That's a shame, as it demonstrates the kind of democracy Bush and Blair want to export to Iraq!
Ivan Carnegie, Scotland
I go to every anti-war protest I can. We the people are the only ones who can stop this war. The leaders are uninterested in a peaceful solution. If Bush goes ahead with this war, he will have to reckon with the American people. Peace now!
I support an unequivocal position against terrorism, be it independent or state-sponsored. I have absolutely no faith in Saddam Hussein nor in the United Nations, but have every confidence in the governments of Blair and Bush to take the battle forward as necessary.
Helen John, UK
If the government won't listen to the majority of its population
then democracy has died. When that happens marches are only the first rung on the ladder of civil disobedience.
At the very core of this discussion about the war is a question about democracy. Namely, are governments elected to carry out the will of the people or simply to do as the government sees fit. From the actions of Mr Blair, it would appear to be the latter. That being the case how different are the actions of Tony Blair from that of dictatorships scattered all over the world that he so loves to denigrate and besmirch? The fact is Tony Blair will have this war regardless of what the British public think and there is not a jot that the public can do about it!
R Langton, England
Minor protests are not likely to influence the governments involved. If they calculate that they can win the war before they have to face public opinion, they will assume that opinion will have moved on by then.
No, unless the protest turned violent, or people refused to pay taxes that were funding the military action, then the government will take no notice. If Blair doesn't even take on board the advice of his own party members what chance have the rest of us got. Unless Lord Irvine has a quiet anti-war word in young Blair's ear then I'm afraid we are marching on Baghdad.
Alan Cousins, Brighton, UK
When you go and protest and return to your cosy little way of life amongst the bosom of your family remember that out there now are evil men plotting to destroy it all and send it crumbling around your ears? War is not a good option, it never is but sometimes it is the only one available. Remember always that the terrorist and tyrant never respond to reason but always buy time!
It's so embarrassing to see the US politicians in propaganda overdrive. When will they wake up and realise there are equally valid views that are different from their own. There is now a real groundswell of opinion, not necessarily against a war, but asking to see the facts first.
Why do we support USA in its fight against terrorism? Does nobody remember that a lot of the American people supported the IRA (Noraid)? Now that terrorism has hit their own country, it's a different story.
If people bothered to take the time to find out what is actually happening in Iraq they might not be so quick to protest. Nobody's going to thank these protesters apart from Saddam and Al-Qaeda as the Iraqi people certainly won't. I don't think the British public even know what they're protesting against.
The whole situation is turning into a farce. Mr Blair would do well to remember that the public elect governments but can also reject them. Nothing in the arguments stated so far create a credible case. We look like the aggressor. They always recommend a nice little war to distract from domestic difficulties!
If nothing else, a rally such as those to be held on Saturday give us the chance to show the world that the policy of this Government's schoolyard "Fight! Fight! Fight!" mentality is not the will of its people, and to demonstrate to the Muslim world that we're not all blind. If we attack Iraq, we have lost. The real war will follow and it will be too late to speak out.
Tim Rose, UK
I agree with Mr Blair and the war on terror. I just wish he would spend some effort on the 'home front', and look at tackling the big problems in this country regarding transport, crime, immigration and housing - this British people need help too!
I am fed up with protest groups especially the communist groups who are anti-war. They moan about war and wish for peace, failing to recognize that their brothers in North Korea are supplying chemical weapons to terrorist groups, I want to know how they can ignore such a thing.
All we are saying is, "give peace a chance"
At one time I would be proud to call myself British but, now I am ashamed! The Iraqi's live under a dictator and now Britain and America do too! Are the government listening to public opinion? NO!
In a democracy, the leaders are merely elected representatives. If the public doesn't want a war, then the leaders should not welcome war. Because in the end, it's the public who pays for the war and the leaders who play 'battleship' and claim victory.
Regardless of whether we believe any protest can change government policy, those of us opposed to this war have a duty to stand up and demonstrate. If we do not do so, it will be easy for the government to pretend that there is no opposition.
I believe that war is justified because no other method will work, therefore I support the USA's stance on Iraq and I believe that France is taking a very irresponsible attitude.
Peter, UK
I don't think public opinion will change policy, but remember you can change government at the next election. But you have to REMEMBER!
Where is the democracy we are going to war to impose on Iraq when those who we elect won't listen to the majority who are against this war? This Bush doctrine of pre-emptive strike means that any country can attack another by just saying they are afraid they would be attacked first. In a world like that international law goes out the window and no one is safe.
These people banging on about "Rogue nations with weapons of mass destruction" make me laugh. What is a rogue nation? Presumably a nation that decides to act on it's own without the backing of any major world organisations. Does that mean the US and UK are also now rogue nations with weapons of mass destruction!?
I will march for peace on Saturday, even though it seems futile, to stand by & do nothing is the statement Bush would prefer us to make. More importantly, however, I will remember all the politicians who have ignored popular opinion in pursuit of oil. I will ensure that my votes go to those who stood up for what is right & good.
Kate, UK
I can't help but wonder if all the people supporting the War on Iraq would reconsider if they thought they might have a few retaliatory missiles/bombs dropped on them and their homeland.
If Blair and Bush are trying to help the people of Iraq, then why are they entering into an open war, where those innocent people are the most likely to suffer and die while Saddam is safe in a bunker somewhere? If they are sure that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, then why are they provoking him to use them? If they have the evidence, then why don't they use it to turn the tide of public opinion? Everything about this is wrong.
Why would public opinion count on this? It doesn't count on anything else! We deserve a government that behaves constitutionally and can be held to account. This one consistently fails to do that - the Lords should shut them down for trampling our rights.
Think of the millions of Iraqi children, who many of them might loose their parents in this war. What would these children think about us in few years in history? Saddam can and would be removed or assassinated. This is only a matter of time. I don't see justification for this mass murder.
If it doesn't have a difference on how your leaders act how can the West preach to us "heathen" Muslims about democracy?
It is quite clear that world public opinion is split on the need to go to war in Iraq, and public protests won't make a difference - there are strong views on both sides. Tony Blair has been elected to make decisions and if you don't like them, you can vote him out.
Mohammed Al-Hilli, UK
What gives Bush the right to break international law, and why should I be dragged into it? Not in my name! I shall be marching on Saturday. I feel obliged to be counted.
The majority of people did not make Blair PM. If you look at the numbers who voted for Labour and compare it to those who voted for someone else or (more importantly) did not vote at all then it is not a majority.
Sure, protests can move mountains. My problem with anti-war protests is that the opposition has no voice, lest it be branded pro-war. This is similar to Pro-lifers labelling their opposition Pro-Abortion. It seems to me that anti-war protests can never tell the full picture. And with regard to leaders, they are elected to lead, not to pander to the whims of a less informed public.
"Thing is, it's easy to be sceptical, calm and patient when your cities have not been recently dealt a 3000 murder blow." I would like to ask how many Iraqi lives will atone for those 3,000? A hundred thousand? Two hundred thousand? The US cannot go looking for revenge for that act in a completely unrelated country and not expect there to be international consternation. The protesters realise the difference between a dictator and his oppressed masses. You cannot justify bombing the living daylights out of an entire nation to get at one man.
You don't have to be a pacifist to believe this war is wrong. I believe all it will achieve is a massive upswing of terrorism against the west. Osama Bin Laden must be overjoyed, not only does he get rid of Saddam Hussein (something he has public demanded in the past) but he can also turn to the Middle East saying "Look at these colonial powers taking over our land" (even though it isn't true). I don't think the anti-war protest will stop the war, but it could easily spell the end of Tony Blair as Prime Minister.
"Iraq - Britain decides", alas I think not - George Bush has already decided for us, like it or not.
Public opinion can stop wars, and might stop this one. But people who protest against this war must realise that they are supporting the continuation of a murderous dictator, the continued suffering of the Iraqi people, terrorism and the killing and maiming of innocent people around the world.
Steve T, England
There is no justification for the atrocities a war brings on all participating parties. Respect to Chirac (I never thought I would say that) for standing up to the ideologies of a global bully.
People may feel disenfranchised and that street protest is pointless but the public still does have the power of their mandate at the ballot box. If Tony Blair continues on his 'Presidential' style of leadership the only way to curtail him is at the next election.
Public opinion? Why bother? We can shout till we're blue in the face, but Bush and Blair won't listen.
I think if Tony Blair is ready to stake his political future on extinguishing the threat from Iraq then the British public should be prepared to back him. Regardless of what is said about Tony Blair the people in this country need to remember that it was them who made him Prime Minister, and being Prime Minister is about making difficult decisions that will indeed affect people's lives. He has my full support
Rich, Australia
I and my wife will be marching on Saturday against the war. It's probably a futile gesture now, but it's better than not standing up at all. If enough of the people throughout the US and Europe stand up, then perhaps the politicians will remember who elected them! It's a funny thought that people feel the need to go out and demonstrate against war, as if some of us are demonstrating for war. Where were these people when the world trade centre came down? Demonstrating against radical terrorism? Demonstrating against religious zealots?
I'm sorry but the path of the pacifist will only take us down the road to hell. We turned a blind eye to the reports of concentration camps in the 40s and look what happened. Millions tortured and killed.
Thing is, it's easy to be sceptical, calm and patient when your cities have not been recently dealt a 3000 murder blow.
3000 lives make you reconsider things a little. History will show the US is on the right path.
My opinion of whether or not this war is right or wrong aside, I believe that the wheels have already been set in motion. Rumsfeld himself said that it was the place of the national leadership to, well, lead, and not be subject to polls.
If public opinion can't stop war, then why is Britain called a democracy?
Odd how for domestic crime we abhor people taking the law into their own hands and taking vigilante action. So what's different about the international situation?!
We will protest, our protest is for the innocent lives that will be lost. If our voice is not heard that I am afraid we do not live in a democracy.
The bottom line is that Saddam and the rest of those like minded people would have no hesitation to destroy western civilisation given half the chance. That is why they must all be eliminated as soon as possible no matter where they are in the world.
Lenny, UK
Blair is a public servant who should keep in mind at all time public opinion especially over issues where lives will be lost. He seems however to be more concerned with securing a place in the hearts of the US public rather than in the hearts of his own people.
A pre-emptive strike is an attack. Hitler was "pro-active" during the late 1930's, is that what we wish to emulate? To do nothing is to approve so it is the duty of everyone who does not support Bush and the possible war on Iraq to do whatever they can to stop it. Demonstrations, petitions, poetry, film, everything can be mobilised for this cause, in the 1960's we stopped the UK following the Yanks into Vietnam. We can do it again!
Poll results should be sombre reading for Blair. It is time for this country to stand up to Blair and the US and make it perfectly clear that we do not want to follow into this pointless war.
Government in a democracy means we elect parliament to govern for a period of time. If we don't like the way they do it we vote them out next time, or better still stand ourselves against them. Are Labour supposed to 'ask the people' on every issue? - if so what's the point of general elections at all? I'll be in a warm pub Saturday watching the football and the rugby. I'm happy for the war to be in my name.
Why on earth can people not just get back to the point? The Iraqi people are in a living hell and Saddam must be removed to allow the country to return to democratic normality. Personally, I would like to see a 'remove Saddam' demonstration to counter the anti war protest. The sooner Bush and Blair are able to depose this tyrant, the better.
I don't know if public opinion can stop the war but if it did it would be a huge victory for democracy over terrorism. If we fail then I'm afraid terrorism will put down many roots in fertile ground.
The anti war faction, along with the French, Germans etc, are the biggest threat to world peace ever. If they have their way we will never have the authorisation, and later on the means, to defeat terrorism and rogue nations that threaten world peace. Whilst I believe that the ordinary members of the public who are protesting are genuine and well meaning, I do not believe that many fully understand the true implications of, or reasons for what is happening in Iraq and elsewhere.
Rob Forrest, England, UK
To Rob Forrest:Thank you. Exactly. It is so easy to be against war and shout about but not quite as easy to support a war. Nobody wants war but in some situations such as these it is the only way.
I think that public opinion will slow the progress somewhat but will not stop the war. Blair and Bush have had poor public support from the outset and it now appears, from some polls,that the support they did have has declined. I think that both of these leaders share a similar level of autonomy for short term action at least which will allow them to carry on regardless. Unfortunately for the thousands of walking corpses around the world they are both arrogant enough to do just that.
Democracy means we elect our leaders to represent our interests. Blair should listen to the public and represent British people not interests of the US president. Let's not forget that Bush won because of a dubious electoral process in the state his brother was governor.
I am fully supportive of our Prime Ministers efforts to tackle the issue of terrorism & Iraq when everyone else wants to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it's not really happening. We should have a rally in London to support WAR ON IRAQ as I believe that more than 10% support Tony Blair on these matters, it's just that those against the war are making more noise.
To: Darryll Chalmers, London, UK.
You say: "those against the war are making more noise". Perhaps that's because they know they've got most to lose: i.e. their democratic rights. But hold on a moment - isn't that what this "war on Iraq" is all about? The removal of a tyrannical dictator and the establishment of democracy there? Perhaps when the war is over, we in the UK might need a foreign power to restore democracy here in the UK!
Darren, Scotland
Why should people in this country and the US have to put up with constantly looking over our shoulder? Shouldn't we be free to go about our lives without the threat of attack from terrorists? Al-Qaeda may be at odds with Saddam Hussein ideologically, but there's no doubt that Saddam wouldn't hesitate to pass chemical and biological weapons to them. Why wait to be attacked before fighting back? Attack Saddam now.
Public opinion must make a difference, the world has gone mad. People have to protest on mass and continue to do so, we have to take collective control. Bush and Blair's logic is fogged by their egos and their potential place in history; this is not the time to create martyrs, heroes and casualties out of innocent people.
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See also:
08 Feb 03 | Asia-Pacific
31 Jan 03 | England
22 Jan 03 | Europe
11 Feb 03 | Europe
25 Jan 03 | UK
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If we face up to Saddam without blinking first there is still a chance he may finally decide to submit to the will of the UN and disarm voluntarily thus avoiding war. 
