Showdown has reached a "final phase"

The White House is gearing up for a major diplomatic push on Iraq, describing the showdown as having reached a "final phase."

Secretary of State Colin Powell is putting together an intelligence briefing for a special session of the UN Security Council on February 5th.

Meanwhile in his State of the Union address President Bush tried to draw clear links between Iraq and international terrorism.

Gavin Esler spoke to John Bolton, Under Secretary, Arms Control & Security, US State Department.

GAVIN ESLER:
Now, let's cross over live to the state department where we are joined by John Bolton. One phrase from the president that really leapt out at me last night was when he said Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as the scientists that inspectors are supposed to interview? Do you have evidence that the Iraqis are really trying to dupe the inspectors in this way?

JOHN BOLTON
(Under Secretary, Arms Control & Security
Us State Department):
We have known since the time of UNSCOM, that Iraqi intelligence and its denial and deception mechanism is involved with all aspects of Iraq's programmes and weapons of mass destruction. I don't think we should find this surprising. It is part of the very sophisticated Iraqi effort to keep the inspectors from finding the critical evidence.

ESLER:
Are we getting to the point where the United States would be able to declare publicly that you believe Iraq is in material breach of the UN resolution?

BOLTON:
Colin Powell already said in response to the Iraqi December 7th declaration that that constituted a material breach and the evidence we have had for quite some time at least some of which the secretary will lay out next week will demonstrate that Iraq still has extensive programmes and weapons of mass destruction, that would be a breach of the resolutions, and that Iraq continues to engage in this extensive programme of covering up and camouflaging the effort which is a second breach of the resolution. That is the mission he has, that the president has given him and that he will fulfil in quite convincing detail.

ESLER:
A lot of people have been speculating that this is like the moment in 1962 where the case was laid out against Cuba. Is it going to be in this great detail that there will be intelligence reports?

BOLTON:
Well, it hasn't been written yet so I don't want to foreshadow what it might contain. I believe the essence of what the secretary will do as the president said, is detail the extent of Iraq's programmes of weapons of mass destruction, and show how the Iraqis have been attempting to cover those programmes up. That is what the president committed to when we negotiated resolution 1441 and it is what will be important in convincing those who may not support taking this matter to the next step to show that Iraq has simply not accepted that it has an obligation to disarm. This is the point Hans Blix made on Monday.

ESLER:
Do you accept that Colin Powell has a lot of convincing to do here at home as well. I noticed the ABC poll saying two thirds want the inspectors to be given more time. Mohamed El Baradei wants more time, the French, Germans and Russians want more time.

BOLTON:
The polls also show if Iraq has weapons of mass destruction the American people would support the use of force that is not our preference and there is still time and this presentation by Colin Powell is one further effort to see if we can't achieve these objectives of UN resolutions by peaceful means. This is not a case of allowing the inspectors another few days here and there. We have been waiting for Iraq to be disarmed for 12 years.

ESLER:
The Russians are saying today they want undeniable proof, do you think whatever the details that Colin Powell will release next week you will have that, that the Iraqis still have weapons of mass destruction?

BOLTON:
There is no doubt that any fair minded person listening to what the secretary will say has to come to the conclusion both that the Iraqis have ongoing programmes involving chemical, biological and nuclear weapons and that they have exerted a massive effort to cover all this up and hide it.

ESLER:
I wonder if you agreed with Donald Rumsfeld over the Pentagon that the French and the Germans are old Europe?

BOLTON:
I am not going to get into characterisations like that but one thing that is important is not even the top leadership of those and many other country's in Europe have the kind of intelligence we have. We will be making available in ways that have not been made available before information, very specific, very concrete level, that has convinced us and the British and others, just how serious the threat that Iraq still poses. I hope that will be enough to persuade them.

ESLER:
Can we talk about these links that the president said last night. Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, the president said, including members of Al-Qaeda, what have you got on this that we don't already know?

BOLTON:
The president was referring to the fact Iraq has been on the state department's list of state sponsors of terrorism for years. This isn't speculation, this has been documented and released publicly in the reports we file with Congress every year. The points that he made about Al-Qaeda last night are also subject to that kind of documentation. How much will be part of the secretary's presentation I don't know. I believe it will focus on what has been of particular importance in the UN context beginning with the cease-fire resolution 687 going back to 1991, that Iraq has been violating for 12 years.

ESLER:
The president also said as he concluded his speech, he said we will bring freedom to the Iraqi people as well as medicines, supplies and food, it sounds like a slight shift of emphasis from resolution 1441 which talks about the arms issue, this does sound like a different agenda which is regime change?

BOLTON:
If you have a regime like Saddam Hussein's whose very identity for decades has been bound up with its imperative to have weapons of mass destruction, that the consequences of eliminating the country of those weapons may well involve eliminating it of Saddam Hussein as well. If that comes to pass and there is no final decision, I believe American and other coalition forces will be greeted as liberators.

ESLER:
Thank you very much.

This transcript was produced from the teletext subtitles that are generated live for Newsnight. It has been checked against the programme as broadcast, however Newsnight can accept no responsibility for any factual inaccuracies. We will be happy to correct serious errors.