Fire service: Will government intervention work?

The government is preparing to assume legal control over the fire service by reviving old laws.

Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott plans to invoke the Fire Services Act of 1947 which gives the government control of the service and the right to impose a pay settlement on firefighters.

Hours into the 48-hour strike which began on Tuesday, Prescott told the Commons the Fire Brigades Union was not seriously trying to reach a settlement to its dispute over pay and conditions.

It is unlikely that Prescott will outline coming legal action to outlaw the strikes, government sources suggest.

Another 48-hour strike is due to start on Saturday.

Is this the right move on the government's part? Can the deadlock be ended this way?

This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.

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Your reaction

The poor firefighters are pawns in this insidious political game

Mark, UK

The Labour government have moved so far to the centre-right it has created a vacuum in trades union relations that has enabled far left people like Andy Gilchrist and Bob Crow (railways) to gain leadership positions in the trades unions. The poor firefighters are pawns in this insidious political game, they should get rid of their union leadership as soon as possible.
Mark, UK

I served in the RAF for many years, but civilian firemen risk their lives on far more occasions than military personnel. The Government talks about efficiency savings, but they tried that with the NHS - now look at the crisis in the A&E units in Glasgow.
Neil Small, Scotland

It's worrying how money-oriented our society is. I believe in a fair wage for work and do value what the firefighters do. I value all public service workers. Can people no longer look beyond an hourly rate to understand the value that is portrayed on them? Or is it simply about holding a country to ransom to get what you want?
Lynne, UK

Don't you just get sick of hearing about the hardships that the firemen are going through. Spare a thought for the service personnel who are not only risking their lives standing in for so-called 'professional firemen' but could soon be risking their lives to protect humanity. John Prescott is right to intervene and use best endeavours to end this dispute.
Steve, UK

Centralise and modernise the fire services and run it like the armed forces with discipline, organisation and responsibility. Oh, and pay them the same as the forces. Oh! That means a pay CUT then! C'mon - there are people out there being subjected to enemy gun fire being paid a lot less than firefighters and spend months away from their families. In my area, Devon, the firefighters earn 10% MORE than the regional average income! How dare they demand that the people earning a lot less then they have to pay an increased tax to feed their greed!
Tony Kenny, UK

With government control there is no profit motive

Vig, UK

At least with government control there is no profit motive and there is no chance of extortion by workers who have been trained and employed by the state to be there "when they are needed". There is a difference between withholding labour from a private company that does not fairly share profits with the employees, and withholding an essential public service for political or economic gain.
Vig, UK

Recently I had to call all three emergency services to a serious car crash in a rural area. The fire service arrived first (seven minutes), the police took 19 minutes and the ambulances 23 and 27 minutes. No need to guess what will happen to the fire service response times if this government gets their way.
Kathy, UK

RB, UK

Of course government control will fix the fire brigade. It worked for schools, hospitals, railways, universities and roads. Didn't it?
John B, UK

It is definitely time for the government to seize control

Andrew, England

The FBU leadership has been astonishingly bad for the firefighters. Its primary agenda was to challenge a democratically elected government and it deserves the backlash it is now receiving from both the government and from public opinion. It is definitely time for the government to seize control and dictate terms.
Andrew, England

I am a serving firefighter. Do you think that taking home £1,250 a month is a good wage for working two out of every eight nights and a part of six out of every seven weekends? Also, did you know that we won't get 11%? The wording reads "11% on the paybill". It has been agreed to bring the pay rate of the part time firefighters up to the rate of the full-timers, therefore a lot of the 11% will be lost to making up this difference. There are a lot of lies being spread about or job and this dispute. Please think before you decide who is in the wrong.
Mike Barnard, UK

I am amazed at the government's response to the FBU's request for a reasonable pay increase. If my memory serves me rightly, both times the Labour government have been elected almost the first thing Mr Blair did was to give himself and the MPs a huge increase.
S. Griffiths, UK

If, as Mr Gilchrist asserts, the government is "bullying" the FBU, I personally find this preferable to the FBU bullying the (democratically elected) government by putting the electorate at risk. If the FBU is not willing to accept an imposed rate of pay, perhaps as an alternative to striking, its members could find other employment and let the 30 applicants for each position available under current pay and conditions provide the service?
Dan Gore, UK

I'm not entirely sure that everyone knows how much firefighters actually risk to save people

Paul M. C. Ebbens, England

I'm not entirely sure that everyone knows how much firefighters actually risk to save people that are not even grateful for their service - Surely if you were someone in a life-threatening job you would like some security for their family, because looking at it if I was in that situation - I wouldn't want to put my family at risk.
Paul M. C. Ebbens, England

When the FBU initially asked for 40% and got an 11% offer on the table I thought they were doing some smart negotiation and could be happy with the outcome, which was better than most public sector workers. Subsequently they've managed to throw that away and alienate public opinion by refusing to negotiate on a clearly ridiculous claim.
Keith, UK

The government has behaved appallingly to the firefighters. They were intent on demolishing the fire service and firefighters' terms and conditions from the very beginning. They have shown nothing but contempt for ordinary working people. Prescott should hang his head in shame. The Labour party has now ceased to exist - every instinct of Blair and his cronies is a Tory one. One thing is for sure; I won't get fooled again!
David Hudson, Halifax, England

The FBU demands are just unrealistic. I have just spent four months in France, where the firefighters have also been "striking" recently. There they are required by law to attend emergency call-outs even when on strike, and the British pay conditions are very reasonable compared to France. I think the FBU needs to take a reality check.
Stephanie Poulter, UK

Give the government control of the fire service and they will wreck it

Mark, UK

The people currently baying for modernisation will be the first ones to come on here crying and moaning when they have to wait an hour for a fire engine. Give the government control of the fire service and they will wreck it. Anyone who doubts that should take a look at the NHS, schools. the post office, the railways, the police etc.
Mark, UK

I think it's time for the firefighters to go with dignity and accept the pay deals offered. The strike action has backfired, and brought to public attention bad practice and a "closed door" culture. Further action can surely only harm their case.
Jamie Ball, UK

Congratulations to the Government, sense at last. Take control, impose a pay deal and make striking illegal. The FBU is finished - Gilchrist tried to take on 'New' Labour and has lost. Public support for the strikes does not exist. Now Get Back to Work!
David Warburton, UK

I've risked my life more as a firefighter in one year than all my time in the forces.

Howard, England

The best people to modernise the fire service are the firefighters who know about the job, not the politicians. Our workload has increased over the years but because of the lack of funding we don't have the proper equipment to carry out most of these tasks properly. There is an increased threat from terrorism and the first to deal with any incident will be the firefighters - but we have no equipment to deal with it. A large percentage of firefighters are ex-forces. Some of us served during the last Gulf conflict. I've risked my life more as a firefighter in one year than all my time in the forces. All we want is to be able to properly paid for the service we provide as the police and many other professional trades do.
Howard, England

The firemen should just be ignored. The Army is doing a fantastic job and have proved how little we miss the firemen with their protective closed shop and outdated practices. Let them suffer and eventually they will cave in. Failing that they could all be given new contracts and told to work as the employers want in a more efficient and cost effective manner. They are one of the last bastions of militancy and this should be stamped out.
David Crickmore, England

Well, I have no truck with the firemen¿s' ridiculous 40% claim, but as I see it, after any modernisation in working practices, the overall level of service will be lower, even if some efficiency improvements are achieved. In other words this is an exercise in saving money, not modernisation. And all this from a government that has raised taxes enormously and duly squandered the proceeds.
Marcus Aquila, Holland

The firemen should abandon their strike action - it has failed.

Paul, London

The firefighters, who do an excellent job, are pawns in this game and they have been misled by their leaders into a believing that a short strike would get them a 40% pay rise. This was never going to happen and is certainly not going to happen now. The firemen should abandon their strike action - it has failed. They should then consider whether a change of leadership might be appropriate.
Paul, London, UK

If the Government brings in this legislation, and stops the negotiations that the FBU have been having for the past year with the employers, then as stated by the Insurance companies on the BBC this morning everyone's premiums will increase, not because of the Firefighters pay but due to the cuts in firefighters and fire stations, as they see will happen through the Bain recommendations and Government wants, is this really what the public want?
Jayne, UK

The government should take over the fire service and make it illegal to strike. Especially as the firemen complain that modernisation of the fire service will endanger lives when they are willing to endanger lives when they go on strike? If they are so badly paid get another job.
EWH, UK

The Labour Party was originally founded to protect ordinary workers' rights

Ben Drake, York

This is tragic. The Labour Party was originally founded to protect ordinary workers' rights against attempts by Tories and Liberals to ban all strikes. Now 'New' Labour are moving toward banning strikes themselves! What with this and war on Iraq, I've never known so many angry and disillusioned Labour supporters. We need a new political voice for social justice and workers rights, and we need it now.
Ben Drake, York, UK

This out of date law is giving the government the opportunity to stop the only public service sector that has had the guts to stand up to them. The fire service, whose incremental pay rises over the past quarter century are pitiful, are picketing to be paid fairly - this is not a picket to be overpaid. Using this law would be an appalling break in the democratic process that this country is based upon. More than that, it is infringing on the rights of the fire fighters. The future of our country will be far too bleak if this is invoked as the Big Brother state takes hold.
Toni, UK

Government modernisation for the Fire Service will turn the best performing public service into the worst! Ring 999 and ask for the Fire Service now and you will get a Fire Engine in around 5 minutes. Ever had the same success calling Police or Ambulance? That's Government modernisation. Oh and it will cost more for a worse service, in terms of drastic increases in insurance premiums.
Phil Baugh, UK

Firefighters are heroes who risk everything for us and I would like to see them paid accordingly.

Paul, UK

Firefighters are heroes who risk everything for us and I would like to see them paid accordingly. Especially as it would make the job more attractive and accordingly we could cherry pick the finest of the fine and make a great service perfection. The money isn't there though, so the firefighters should be more realistic. Perhaps they don't realise that if the economy collapses they won't have a great lifestyle no matter how big their individual salaries are. It's time they grew up and developed a social conscience and a sense of reality.
Paul, UK

The Deputy Prime Minister said in almost the same sentence this afternoon that both sides could bring anything to the negotiating table yet could only talk around the Bain report. How can anything he says have any level of credibility?
ChriCase, UK

What can the firefighters really expect. They have been offered a better pay deal than nearly everyone else in the UK, much higher than inflation, and they still strike. Their pay, like all other industries, should be based on supply and demand. There's thousands of people trying to become firefighters, and their pay should reflect this.
Mr Stuart Bartram, UK

There will be a cost in votes

Clive Williams, UK

It is so sad to see attitudes from this government that were commonplace during the miners strike. The concerns of the unions then were born out in fact. To be strong enough to impose a view only means you are stronger not that you are right. Attitudes and actions like these will come back on the government. There will be a cost in votes that will, at some stage have to be paid. It is not just the lack of compassion and the bullying that is sad but the lack of intelligence from a political stand point.
Clive Williams, UK

About time too. I'm a member of the military and am losing patience with the FBU. I've seen from first hand the strike affect build-up operations for the Gulf and that is unacceptable. If we're not allowed to concentrate on the job ahead of us - distracted by ludicrous 40% pay demands - then our mission in the Gulf will not get the full support it needs. Gilchrist et al are well aware of the pressures on the military and have cynically chosen to space their strikes apart nicely, so the military are still tied-up yet his members don't lose pay. If we (the military) aren't given all the resources we need - a full compliment of personnel being a good start - the firemen and the general public may end up with a lot more to worry about than pay rises in the future.
JB, England

Bring back the Act and settle this fiasco once and for all. e

AK, UK

The fire brigade is a service to protect the public and the government have a responsibility to ensure that this is done in the most efficient way. Bring back the Act and settle this fiasco once and for all. If firefighters want more money they should seek other employment, there are plenty of people wanting to join the brigade who obviously don't believe in holding the country to ransom for such ridiculous pay demands.
AK, UK

Sadly, Mr Prescott of all people should know that such a move will only serve to worsen a poorly handled situation. When government blocks individuals access to protest, other avenues are found to express discontent. Is that REALLY what he wants?
Steve Grigor, Scotland

The government are behaving like children. They can't win the fight fairly so they are changing the rules. Anyone who doesn't support the firefighters needs to seriously educate themselves about what this so-called modernisation really means. Look what happened when they did it to the railways, the NHS, the police etc... Do you want the cheapest or the best?
Chris, England

Why bother? The strike has lost nearly all credibility and with very little public support, is doomed to failure. Even the media coverage is starting to flag. Hopefully the FBU will get rid of their leader(s), and elect people who can act wisely on their behalf. By using legislation the government risks giving the FBU the political advantage it so desperately needs.
Richard Wolff, England

This is an empty threat

R.C. Robjohn, UK

This is an empty threat. They do not want to alienate a large contributor to Labour party funds so this macho talk is ridiculous. To invoke the 1947 act would put industrial relations back 57 years and would affect us all. The fight must go on at all costs until a fair settlement is reached.
R.C. Robjohn, UK

Is this John Prescott's MODERNISATION of the fire service - using a law passed in 1947 and repealed in 1959 - to end the fire strike?
Wendy Hurd, England

Is this the same John Prescott that held the country to ransom in the Sixties when his seamen's union blockaded British ports? Is Prescott actually TRYING to wind the firefighters up?
George, UK

Yes it is. And it is about time the government demonstrated a bit of backbone to protect the best interest of the country.
Dunc, UK

Where in the 21st century does this have a place in our labour laws?

Rosie Brent, UK

The Fire Services Act - quite beyond having been already repealed as out of date - allows for the appointment of a Central Fire Brigades Advisory Council by the Secretary of State, to advise on how to run the fire service! Since appointments can be made to suit political desires, the Council itself is a partisan, political body. Where in the 21st century does this have a place in our labour laws? It is a disgraceful step back into the dark ages of keeping the working classes down and under control.

This action by the government should be protested - employment rights and conditions should not be determined by political policy. I fear for the state of the nation if this is the route employers groups and politicians feel that they are able to go down when the little people don't do as they are told.
Rosie Brent, UK

Prescott is the one to blame for constantly forbidding negotiations on Bain. We voted 9-1 for our legal right to strike. If he removes that right, which group of workers is next?
Mark Byard, England

It's a disgrace the way the British media and government have demonised the firefighters. If there is a terrorist attack on the people of this country, as surely there will be with Tony Blair determined to take us into America's war, then the firefighters will suddenly be the heroes of the day - as they were on 9/11. Let us treat the people who risk their lives everyday for our sake decently.
Mrs Jane Carlton, UK