How can we stop anti-social behaviour?

The Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has promised radical reform of the criminal justice system ahead of Wednesday's Queen's speech.

Fixed penalty notices, already used for drunken behaviour, are expected to be extended to fly-tipping, vandalism and graffiti.

Other initiatives will include more use of hearsay evidence and scrapping the double jeopardy law for murder and other serious offences thereby allowing someone to be tried for a second time.

In an article in the Observer, Mr Blair claimed that social cohesion would be restored to fragmented communities and the theme of "rights and responsibilities" would be central to the Queen's Speech.

However, lawyers and civil liberty groups have condemned these plans as "fundamentally flawed".

Do you agree with the government's proposals for tackling anti-social behaviour? Can these measures restore social cohesion? Tell us what you think.

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This Talking Point has now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.

We are facing an epidemic spreading through the very fabric of our civilisation

Jerry Goldman, USA

I am a psychologist working with adolescents. And what I think we are seeing here is really a fundamental disintegration that we find throughout the industrial world. The family and community structures are falling apart; young people have lost a sense of identity and value. The role models that they are presented with in the media are typically anti-social and violent personas. I think it would be safe to say that we are facing an epidemic spreading through the very fabric of our civilisation.
Jerry Goldman, USA

People need to feel that are part of a society that values them and that they make a contribution. Respect cannot be created by boot-camps, national service or any level of punishment. Respect is earned; too many people seem to think respect should be automatic, it is not. The longer you persist in believing that then the worse the situation will get. Maggie created a society of Alf Garnetts and that legacy is clear to see.
Leigh, USA (UK Orig)

Youngsters know that the police cannot touch them

J, Britain

I think that making parents take responsibility for their children's behaviour would go a long way in the right direction. At present youngsters know that the police cannot touch them because they are underage, as a result they have no respect for the law. If children themselves cannot be held responsible for their actions, then parents must be made to take the responsibility for them. If they are not old enough to be responsible for what they are doing, then they are not old enough to be out alone without adequate supervision.
J, Britain

I think the idea of the national identity cards is a good one. It would stop underage drinking for starters. I remember the 'public outcry' when it was suggested and think the only people who had anything bad to say about it were the type that it was actually aimed at. Until all the 'do-gooders' stop wrecking our country with their extreme human rights views, our country will just tumble to lower lows. Laws need changing and the people that make these laws have never been anywhere where they could be mugged or abused. How can someone from a posh boarding school know whats best for inner city schools?
David B, Scotland

The solution is simple. Create a situation where it is simply not worthwhile to engage in anti-social behaviour. Vigorous use of fines, jail sentences, arrestment of benefits, eviction from public housing and physically hard community service will convince even the most brainless thug that it is just not worth it to continue bullying and harassing those around them.
Jim, Scotland

This trend has been set

Jason, UK

Alcohol is a major cause of anti-social behaviour. Pubs and drink are a tradition in the UK but it has changed from having one or two drinks and a chat with friends into let's see who can drink the most! This trend has been set and people young and old think that it is cool. How do you go about changing this attitude? Certainly not with laws and penalties. Good luck trying is all I can say.
Jason, UK

It is easy to say "blame the parents", but many of these parents are themselves young, and caught in the poverty trap. What hope is there of them teaching their children to have moral values when they have none themselves?
Karen K, UK

Politicians lie and are corrupt and business leaders put profits before ethics. All around us, the people with power make decisions on profits and appearances, without caring what happens to the people and environment around them. If anything, the government should impose very strict laws on these people to make sure they provide good role models, instead of giving the youth of today even more to rebel against.
Jo, UK

Look no further than some English pubs on a Friday or Saturday night, and discover large number of very drunk schoolchildren not much older than 15. Listen to the likes of populist DJs boasting about how they got bladdered, and reflect on poor parenting, and the willingness to turn a blind eye to our blind drunk teenagers. Why is it that young people in France, Italy have a good time without resorting to binge drinking like the Brits?
M. Owen, UK

It makes the lives of us all, but especially the poor, a misery

Adrian, UK

The main problem is that the Police are so overwhelmed that they can't deal with crime properly and so it multiplies leading to further pressure. The police need to be helped by removing much of the PC (excuse the pun) bureaucracy with which they have been lumbered and persistent criminals need to be locked up for a long time to keep them off the streets. Only in this way will the Police be able to deal with low grade offences properly. Anti-social behaviour is completely unacceptable; it makes the lives of us all, but especially the poor, a misery. Let's start treating the unacceptable in a way which leaves the offender in no doubt about the seriousness of what they have done.
Adrian, UK

No I don't agree, Let's just set up the police state now so that we can't do anything. The blame lies with the individuals and not with all! So why infringe our rights. As for the person who said to allow parents and school teachers to discipline children, I agree if you tried to be smart or cheeky a good clip round the ear sorted that out and we never had hyperactive kids when I was at school either.
Scott, Scotland

If you commit a crime against the state (not paying council tax, income tax, get caught in a speed trap etc.) the full force of the law comes down on you. Commit a crime against a person (mug an old person, break into someone's house or car) and you have very little to worry about. When a criminal can get away with "people" crimes with little or no punishment, there is no incentive to change their behaviour.
Mike, UK

It's all gimmicks. Blair believes that just because he pontificates from No. 10 that the problem is immediately solved. It won't be if the laws are not enforced. Rather than the do-gooders moaning how we send more people to prison than Europe they should worry about how society makes it abundantly clear to these people that their behaviour is not going to be tolerated. Somehow though I think we'll just wind up with more claptrap making excuses for them and more rubbish from the Government saying how they've solved all our problems by just announcing a new initiative.
John, UK

Anti-social behaviour is much less of a problem in places like the Netherlands and Denmark than it is in the UK. Could it be that these countries, which maintain a strong sense of civic responsibility and "citizenship" have something to teach us? These countries imprison far fewer people than in the UK, and are generally regarded as "liberal" in their social policies, but they're clearly doing something right. Let's find out what it is, and start doing it back here in the UK!
John, England

Tony Blair should place the emphasis on educating the under fives.

RC Robjohn, UK

If a child cannot differentiate good behaviour from bad behaviour by the time they are five years old then they are lost. It is increasingly popular to encourage and expect adult behaviour in our children but they do it wrong because they are not ready to be adults. Let children be just that and in time they will grow up to be fine law abiding adults. Rush them on the other hand and they will grow up to be very confused and anti-social. Tony Blair should think beyond his lifetime and immediately place the emphasis on educating the under fives.
R.C.Robjohn, UK

I'm 'only' 31 but I can still remember the day a fellow pupil swore at a teacher. He was punished immediately and never did it again. This was honestly the only instance in 5 years in a Salford comprehensive. He was caned, kept in detention for a week and made to stand at the front at a specially arranged school meeting.

According to friends who are now teachers, swearing at teachers and school staff is almost a daily affair. The kids (obviously) can't be caned, they can't be kept in detention without written permission from their parents and a special school meeting would be called humiliation.

It seems simple to me. Kids need to be disciplined from parents first and teachers second. If they get neither then what sort of respect will they have for strangers?
Neil , UK

Britain had a noble past and an inherent sense of decency. Now, our pensioners live in fear of the children they fought to defend. Thatcher wanted to make Britain a nation of the strong and the ruthless, she succeeded. Our young men and women have no idea how to behave, and they now have children too. The majority of our citizenry is, out of fear, stifled into silence when they see a wrong. The minority perpetrators of antisocial behaviour, are louder and more vocal than then vast majority of decent, good Britons. Our Schools should teach our children about the rights and responsibilities of Citizenry. A new national service, not one of war but one of country for our young adults. Let our new British ethos be one of decency, respect, tolerance and society.
Kevin Ryan, USA

Frank blames Margaret Thatcher for saying that there is no such thing as society. He obviously does not comprehend that what she was trying to get over is the fact that "society" has no existence of its own, but is the sum total of the actions and attitudes of individuals. In other words, poor individuals leads to poor society.
Brian W, UK

Individualism has been valued over public order

Frank, UK

Each nation has its own set of inherited and largely unconscious social priorities. In Britain, especially since the 80s, individualism has been valued over public order and responsibility, and we are now paying the price for it. When Margaret Thatcher said there was no such thing as society, she was wrong - but people believed her and made it true.
Frank, UK

Anti-social behaviour often comes with indifference towards other people. The individualisation of society has contributed much to it, as interfering with others is considered wrong. Recently someone in the Netherlands was beaten and kicked to death, because he had the guts to stand up against anti-social behaviour of the assailant towards an elderly person. Bystanders stood and watched it happen.
Karel Postulart, The Netherlands

The problem is as much with society as individuals. Government and local authority have only served to alienate large numbers of young people who have no voice to express their frustration.
Chris, UK

In the sleepy small towns of America the local papers carry a "courts round-up", which lists all the cases heard by the local courts, including the defendants names, their charge and (where appropriate) their sentence. The "shame factor" associated with everyone in your neighbourhood knowing you've been done for whatever it was has got to be more of a deterrent than the "defendant cannot be named for legal reasons" approach.
Dave Tankard, UK

The problems the UK is now facing are no longer about young louts who need to be given national service. How does a gang of 50 Kurds and Turks fighting with knives and guns fit in with the young lout scenario?
Brian Parsons, UK

Social responsibility and respect for others taught at school from a very young age would solve most of the problems before they even start. Teaching people that with rights come responsibility is also key. And above all, more police and more powers for the police.
Steve, England

Reform and a huge sustained cash injection are needed

Wendy, UK

Frustration and boredom play a massive part in the proliferation of anti-social behaviour, with a lack of respect for environment and people coming a close second, followed not far behind by a complete lack of fear for the consequences and no accountability. It's a massive problem, something that Tony Blair is typically underestimating. Reform and a huge sustained cash injection are needed, mainly in the form of a hugely increased police presence backed up by a more severe but more useful punishment system i.e. scrapping fines and prison for extensive community service. But is Blair willing to foot the bill?
Wendy, UK

Most of the comments here, put the onus on the government to sort the problems. If young people are brought up properly in the first place then you wouldn't have anti-social behaviour. Look at the parents - the blame starts there.
Phil, UK

I believe (amongst other things) that those found guilty of vandalism, etc, should (in addition to being fined) be compelled to make restitution to the owners of the damaged or defaced property. Those who are fond of daubing unsightly graffiti all over the place should be made to do community service to clear it up. (And they should have to pay for the materials required to do so). Let the punishment fit the crime!
Gary, England

We already have fixed penalty notices for motoring offences, and look how well they work. In London, it is more or less impossible to spend more than 5 minutes on the roads without seeing someone do something illegal.
Adam, UK

More effort needs to be made to prevent further crime by getting those committing the offences - often for money for drugs - to sort out their own lives. This would help them and prevent future crimes. Current victims of crime may feel this is soft, but potential future victims must see this as the only sensible course to take.
Peter Hennessy, UK

A good start to curbing anti-social behaviour would be restricting the sale of fireworks to a couple of days only. Our area has been like a war-zone for the last six weeks.
Gary, Coventry

We need to look at the fundamental causes of the behaviour

Liam, UK

For me anti-social behaviour needs to be pro-actively addressed rather than re-actively. I believe that we need to look at the fundamental causes of the behaviour and try and catch it before it reaches this stage. Punishment is obviously no good, as many criminals do not fear prison and can't afford fines. We need to look at WHY this is happening and what can be done to stop it.
Liam, UK

Build more prisons and then start getting tough with proper sentencing, including charges against parents of under 18s. A proper education system for all is paramount to give hope that the ladder out of poverty can be scaled. Ultimately this whole problem starts with the uneducated begetting more of the same, generation after generation, leaving us with a terrible legacy.
Ed, UK

We can stop anti-social behaviour by bringing back national service - not in the military, but in civil task forces working on community projects. A lot of the disrespect for others which manifests itself in vandalism and violent behaviour is founded on a lack of self-respect and self discipline. Some kind of national service could help to restore these. Or we could just give up and go for gated communities of the rich, as in America - but I don't think that's such a good plan.
Guy Chapman, UK

Tony Blair is trying to do something

Peter B, UK

At least Tony Blair is trying to do something about the loutish, ill-mannered society which is prevalent today and not just from youths. You have only to see the filth that is published in the tabloids to find out why things are standards are falling in this country.
Peter B, UK

Why not make greater use of community service? Make the vandals spend enough time repairing, cleaning and litter collecting to compensate for all damage that they are thought to have caused.
Chris, UK

The problem with all these innovative ways of stopping anti-social behaviour is that whatever is attempted comes up against the wonderful European Human Rights Act. If we'd started by putting personal RESPONSIBILITY before RIGHTS perhaps then we'd at least be on the right track!
David, UK

Surely all this will lead to is more people dumping their unwanted rubbish in our countryside

Kathryn Hughes, UK

What is going on with the government's policy on anti-social behaviour such as fly-tipping? On the one hand Tony Blair says the Government is going to crack down on this kind of activity, then the Sunday newspapers report that the government are thinking about introducing further tax on disposal of waste. Surely all this will lead to is more people dumping their unwanted rubbish in our countryside, and the poor taxpayer left to foot the bill for cleaning it up and disposing of it properly.
Kathryn Hughes, UK

On the spot fines are only going to work if every-one carries ID so the police know who they are fining otherwise it will be no deterrent and offenders can just give false names
Helen, UK

The problem with people having a 'debt to society' is that society doesn't know about it. I believe that making all criminal records a 'public record' open for all to scrutinise will eventually lead to a self healing of anti-social behaviour by the majority that cause it. Public shame is an incredible way of making someone change their ways - not a £40 fine.
Richard, Leeds,

Whatever happened to "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"? I fail to see how these headline-grabbing, voter-friendly proposals are going to tackle the increase in poverty in the UK over the past few years.
Donny, Scotland

Good soundbites

Stuart Fountain, England

We should take Mr Blair's "promises" at the same value as those he made on education and the health service... good soundbites but hopefully soon forgotten by the electorate.
Stuart Fountain, England

I hope whatever that whatever rules they bring in can be applied to drunken rich people being sick on my car, rugby toffs/idiots baring their backsides at women as well as the sort of anti-social behaviour seen to be carried out by the less well off members of the population. If rugby supporters wore shell suits and spoke with less of a posh accent they would be locked up pretty quickly!
Brian S, Scotland

The problem stems from the attitude of people like Vish with his screwdrivered car saying, "You cannot blame them". You can blame then, and they should be blamed. Kids know what's right and what's wrong, and they are simply laughing at the establishment. Better CCTV, and punish the offenders who are caught severely enough that others don't fancy doing it anymore!
Andy GM Wood, London, UK

I recently had my car screw drivered, probably not by someone trying to steal it but by bored kids. You cannot blame them now there is literally nothing for them to do, unless they have a lot of money. What we need is to stop selling off school playing fields, have after school clubs, things for kids to do on evenings and weekends.
Vish, UK

Vish, UK, belives the problem is due to bored kids. I agree, however providing things for kids to do on evenings and weekends will only work if the kids and parents want it to. We are involved in a football club for girls and boys aged 5 to 16. We have lots of kids, but no parents willing to help out at the weekends. We did consider paying some one, however that would involve increasing the membership fee and no one wants that. The current membership fee of £50 a year is handed over the the concil to allow us to use the public football pitches.
Carol, Fleet, England

My sister-in-law is a magistrate. She recently released a joy-riding car thief without punishment because: "...if we'd locked him up he wouldn't be able to get a job and engage with society". That sort of pussy-footing nonsense is precisely the reason why crime is rife on our streets.
Chris B, England

Zero tolerance works

Anon, UK

Zero tolerance works - take a look at New York. Once a crime-ridden city, now one of the safest in the US.
Anon, UK

Bring back national service - teach the young louts some respect.
Gordon Sinclair, UK

We have visible policing in my area of London so generally I feel safe. These on-the-spot fines are only just workable and enforceable for adults. If the anti-social criminals are children then you'd only have the parents left to target. But hearsay evidence??? Just keep the CCTV cameras working all the time and get the real thing!
Flynn, England

I have to echo Flynn's astonishment at the idea of including hearsay evidence. This is a complete turn-around of the basis of law and the judiciary... how on earth can it be suggested? Admission of hearsay into criminal proceedings will simply legalise bullying. What an example to set the children we are trying to teach better social values to!
Rosie Brent, UK

Rosie Brent. What rubbish! Legalise Bullying? We have a group of what can only be described as louts from a local council estate. They regularly throw stones, and the most disgusting language at us, but when we contact the Police we are asked to get proof. Why? We after all are law abiding taxpayers, its about time to remove the civil liberties from these louts, because in our opinion if you don't conform to society, you cant be part of it.
Peter Green, UK

If you don't conform to society you can't be part of it?! I don't "conform to society". I'm a Wicca and my hair is dyed blue. Peter Green seems to be suggesting that I don't deserve civil liberties because of this.
Tracey, UK