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Talking Point Were the ministers right to go? Your reaction Votes so far:
Glad to see them both go...a few more like this and we might get back to some decent socialist policy.
Two politically savvy men did what was best and correct for the public and bit the dust. Failue to disclose is the ultimate sin in politics, and they knew that. The arrogance of it all! They are not above the law.
People are saying, so money was borrowed. It's a private matter. What a lot of people must be forgetting is - where did the extra money come from for the loan to be paid back so quickly? It was something like a half or a third of Mandleson's salary PER PAYMENT! This makes so little sense I'm surprised it hasn't been brought into the light.
If I borrowed money from my parents or a friend to buy my house, whose business is that?
Even if I agreed to return that money with interest, why is that the concern of the building society?
If I had defaulted on that loan then there would have been no recrimination, simply the loss of an understanding friend, parent or sibling.
The question has to be, "did Mr. Mandleson intend to deceive the building society, the Prime Minister or the Country"?.
I think the answer is no!.
However good or bad Peter Mandelson may have been as a Secretary of State for Trade or previously as the Labour Party's unofficial spin doctor and PR Guru the fact of the matter is he broke the ethical code of the Party by not disclosing his financial relationship with Geoffrey Robinson at the time he was appointed to the post of Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. New Labour has pushed forward an image of "whiter than white" as the show piece of their administration and consequently it is simply not good enough to "just" be within the law on matters of personal conduct. Yes he had to go and contrary to recent press speculation he will not be back in any meaningful capacity for a long time!!!
However I find it quite nauseating to hear the Conservative Party talking about the moral issues involved.
I am sure this "loaning" of monies happens all the time, provided it is know about and out in the open there should be no problem. The case hear is not that they DID something wrong, it is that they were SEEN to have done something that could be wrong.
But all praise to the pair for going so quickly compared to others who would not leave.
They can not think that because they are ministers that they are above the law.
Yes. Now is the time for all Labour MPs to clarify their financial, personal and political relationships with Mr Robinson - including the Prime Minister. Labour promised us open and accountable government!
Yes the ministers were right to leave their posts. Tony Blair's government has lost some credibility and will have to work hard to get it back. The ministers in question are so interested in the Good Life that they forgot who they represent. Wasn't Mandelson originally a socialist? How is it that he now needs a house worth over half a million dollars? For the sake of Britain, bring back Margaret Thatcher.
Regrettably, I think Peter Mandelson made the right decision to resign. Despite what all the tedious & unrelenting press and television coverage may suggest, ordinary people respect him for sacrificing so much for a party that so clearly means everything to him. (Can you imagine a Tory MP making such a gesture?)As for Peter, undoubtedly, he'll be back at the centre of things in some capacity - the sooner the better!
Fairly trivial act - but once again, failure to disclose is the politician's biggest crime. Will they ever learn? The result is that a very able person has been lost to high office, possibly for ever.
They did the right thing. Now let's move on and get on with the business of government.
It is our misfortune that in my country
compromised officials cling to power
rather than resign. Since Tony Blair is such
a good friend of Bill Clinton, perhaps he should
transmit some ethical lessons based on the
tale of these two (ex-)ministers.
The ministers had no choice but to go. You cannot lecture the great unwashed about the virtues of being clean, only to reveal that you are as deep in the mire as any in your audience.
Mandelson was the result of Britain's far-right bigoted and Eurosceptic press. This scandal is nothing serious. What a shame that New Labour is so sensitive to The Sun as to decide their whole policy by it. Peter Mandelson was the driving force behind Britain's entry into Europe, and now I feel Britain will go back to the same uncooperative, Eurosceptic style of politics as John Major.
I don't understand the fuss. They did not steal money. They didn't accept bribes - like many Japanese politicians do. Mandelson is even repaying the mortgage!
As members of the Government they were right to resign. I do not believe the hounding of them should continue beyond resignation. But I was not aware that answering a mortgage question in a misleading way constitutes a high offence.
I don't have an opinion on the resignations of Mandelson and Robinson. However, I do have this observation. New Labour politicians seem increasingly removed from the lived experiences of the poor in Britain. I work and pay taxes in a country which still believes that social justice is not a by proxy issue. It starts with how politicians live their lives - modestly and on incomes not much different from what I earn as an academic. It starts with providing the unemployed with decent, not poverty, benefits, which is the case in Norway. It starts with keeping public services in public hands which happens in Norway. I voted for Blair because New Labour struck me as not quite so bad as Conservative. Now I live in a country whose Prime Minister is of the centre but whose policies are those of the love that dare not speak its name in New Labour circles - socialism.
If any one of us ordinary mortals had obtained this building society mortgage giving false information, we would have been had up for fraud. Just because (and only it appears because he's been found out) - just because he's able to find the funds from his mother to repay the mortgage, doesn't lessen the dubious nature of the affair.
If your department is investigating the financial activities of a person who is not only a close friend,but also somebody you owe money to and this does not constitute a possible conflict of interest then I would like to know what does.
Since the last election the Tories have failed as a political opposition, hence, now we have the Tories poking their noses into the personal affairs of Government
ministers. It's very sad. What the electorate want is
political debate not muck-raking. As for Mr Madelson's
personal finances, that's his business. What matters is that
Mr Madelson does a good job and is accountable for his
actions as a Government minister.
I was always very impressed by Mandelson, but I cannot believe how reckless he has been in this matter. How many of us buy real estate with $500k loans from our "friends." He would never have received this loan if he were not in politics and he is smart enough to know this. The total absence of judgement in this matter clearly renders him unfit to serve in the government.
The ministers' resignation makes UK politics as pathetically self-destructive as the American one. They should have stayed and stuck it out, the media has not in this case represented public opinion.
Yes, of course he had to go to spare the fuss, just like the Welsh Secretary. I can't help thinking though that this is a very New Labour scandal. In the good old days Labour men bore much more resemblance to John Prescott. Working-class, passionate and relatively poor. Now they're all barristers who can earn a million quid a year, millionaire businessmen with offshore accounts, and high paid consultants when ousted. In this way they look more like the Tories to a single mother on the dole, people who probably have the right intentions but if they can live the high life,too, all the better.
Yes, both ministers showed utmost courage and upheld long and tested British system of accountability. I would like to congratulate them for their action. They have shown that morality in politics, so special to British politics, has to be seen to be held. That is the great difference between British and American approach. If Clinton were in Britain, he would not have been in his position for more than a week after the scandal appeared on the scene first time.
Peter Mandelson's greatest misfortune is that this story broke during a quiet news week.
The only logical explanation for some of the absurd hyperbole we've seen in the last couple of days is that the media, including I'm afraid the dear old BBC, have nothing more important to worry about. At any other time this would have been a one-day wonder - certainly not a resigning matter. Comparisons between this and 'cash for questions' are patently ridiculous.
For Mandleson to say he does not recall what answer he gave to the Building Society concerning the Loan from Robertson beggars belief. They should both have gone earlier. And what about the Income tax authorities?
To suggest that Geoffrey Robinson was rewarded with the post of Paymaster General for this economic favour to Peter Mandelson is to ignore the facts. Robinson has had a long and illustrious political career and has proven himself to be one of the most talented party members, active in the rebuilding of the Labour Party.
When reading all these reports, I can't help but feel that all that has been done is a mistake on a mortgage application.
Surely this is a matter for the building society in question and a personal mistake and has no bearing on the man's competence in helping to govern the country. Does he do a good job? Has he committed a crime against the people? If there is legal action to take, it should be done by the building society, and then, if proven guilty - which is what our system is supposedly built on, he should resign.
No, they shouldn't resign. This is potentially dangerous precedence; how far back are people allowed to make "errors of judgement" that wouldn't impinge on their political life? 5years? 10years? WHAT?? This is nothing but mud-slinging rubbish politics and to even mention it on the same breadth as the sleaziness of the previous government is grossly unfair.
When I read this article, I was shocked by it, it's a normal thing in China, any minister can take money from any state-owned company without returning it.
It is unbelievable that the master of manipulation didn't think this one through, although you could say he has been somewhat unlucky. If he'd borrowed the money from anyone else but Robinson he might have been saved, but then Labour did partly get elected by an electorate sick to death of sleaze. In the end he had to go, but it is hardly crime of the century.
Does Mandelson seriously expect the public to believe that the man he borrowed £373,000 from was doing it as an act of kindness?
Robinson is allegedly a businessman, so why would he hand over that much money if he didn't believe that he was going to get something from it?
The Labour party are spending too much time listening to their own 'Spin Doctors' - they, and Mandelson, actually believe that he did nothing wrong. Personally I don't think that a business man hands over that much money if he didn't believe that it was going to be 'an investment for the future'.
Robinson should have left long before now and Mandelson only hung on to see what the press reaction would be - if he thought the press would drop it he wouldn't have resigned.
Good riddance to the pair of them. If this is Tony Blair's idea of 'the highest standards in public life' heaven help the rest of us.
Yes. I only wish that every other minister in this rotten, dishonest and incompetent Government would follow suit.
This comes at the end of a
concerted political campaign
against Mr Mandelson by a
defeated party (the Tories)
who were steeped in cronyism
and corruption whilst in
government, far greater
than anything which has
transpired here.
This was a private matter
which occurred well before
either man entered government.
Although clearly ill-advised,
I cannot see how it might be
construed as a resignation
matter, except to save the
government from further press-
induced frenzy!
It seems rather unlikely that a position so easily
defendable as P. Mandelson's causes the spin-meister
to resign. There must be something hidden that he is
hoping to quash. And G. Robertson. Well, boo-hoo!
I don't support Labour but they acted honourably in resigning - a lesson which might well be learnt in the USA, whence I am sending this. However, I doubt the resignation will be reported here (Chicago, IL), while the media are engaged in obsessive navel-gazing.
I think Geoffrey Robinson should have resigned
some time ago; it is a terrible shame that by
hanging on he has dragged Peter Mandelson
down with him. "New Labour" won't seem the same without him.
Welcome to the 'real world' labour voters... Nothing changes... The country carries on despite the politicians, not because of them!
Perhaps we will now have less spin and more principles. Oddly enough, I have more respect for the Blair government now than I had before.
Geoffrey Robinson should have gone many months ago and Peter Mandelson should have realised that he was at risk when, as a true "new Labourite" he took such a loan from a friend. It is, frankly, just not acceptable for Mandelson to say, as he did on Monday that it was a perfectly normal transaction between friends. What more sleaze lurks in the Labour ranks: they are proving to be no more clean than those they criticised in the Tory party.
Yes. I also think that it is ridiculous that Government spokesmen are saying what a difference these "prompt" resignations have been compared to cases under the previous government. Geoffrey Robinson has been involved in controversies for virtually the whole time since May 1997. Therefore I make it over a year and a half until it finally got through to him that he should resign.
I am very sad to see Peter Mandelson resign. He is without doubt one of Labour's most capable politicians. However, he did the right thing in the circumstances after a serious error of judgement over his loan from Geoffrey Robinson. I am certain we have not heard the last of him and that he will be back. What a stark contrast his behaviour has been to previuos Tory ministers who were caught up in far more serious 'sleaze' allegations. As for Geoffrey Robinson, he is a delightful and clever man who is always very kind and helpful to his colleagues. It is shame that he had to go, but he did.
I'm not a Mandelson fan, but what has he done wrong?
Absolutely nothing, if we persist like this then nobody will be able to hold public office. What do you want in government a saint or somebody that can do the job?
It was unavoidable that these two resign their posts, in light of the sweeping promises made by Tony Blair and Labour in their last campaign. Indeed, the reality of politics has come back to haunt the idealists, and they now find themselves hoist on their own petard.
Yes they did right to resign. Can you imagine what would have been said if it was the Tories that had done this! Robinson should have gone some time ago though. The fact is that Labour took every opportunity to accuse the Tories of sleaze, sometimes they were right, on other occasions they scraped the bottom of the barrel of cynicism, smear and scapegoating to get into power. Meanwhile Labour from local to national level were, and are, up to their eyes in an arrogant culture of "manipulation", dodgy deals, cronyism and the rest. If you live by the sword you die by the sword. Expect much, much more to come out yet.
Robinson should have been fired months ago and Mandelson on the day the loan was 'discovered'...Blair is now suspect as a UK PM....If he did not know of such things, he should have.....If he DID know....he should go himself. AND I was a LABOUR voter....!!! SNP now.
They should not have resigned. This was a press-inspired witch-hunt, showing once again that the press attempts to create, rather than reflect, the popular mood on any given issue.
Where can the average person borrow £373,000 from at a token interest rate too???
Peter was always a controversial figure and now in light of these serious allegations, it is only appropriate that he should resign and save the government from further embarrassment. Most people I spoke to regarding this say they never really liked Peter to begin with. General consensus or what!
He was right to leave. It was his party in opposition that
made standards in government such a priority.
As they say, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
He was right to resign. It was the honourable thing to do and, given the shortness of people's memory today, he can be back in government in a few years.
It is welcoming to see someone admitting they have made a mistake and accepting the consequences.
I wish him luck for the future.
I don't believe he did anything wrong.
I understand why he wants to resign; so as to deflect criticism away from the Government.
However, he seems far too capable a politician to lose from the Government.
He has done nothing wrong and acted without malice or deceit.
He has borrowed money from a friend.
Why should he have to disclose all his financial dealing
and it seems details of his private life.
Of course the media were out to get him and have quite a prize.
There are millions of people in the UK who will not see that amount of money in a lifetime, let alone have 'offered' to them. If he hadn't resigned any residue notion that there was an ounce of socialism left in the labour party would have gone forever. I just can't believe how such an astute and seemingly genuine politician could have been so foolish as to accept such a sum of money in these circumstances. Why couldn't he have made do with a more humble abode like the rest of us?
Mr Mandelson had adopted a "holier than thou" stance and was subsequently "Hoisted by his own petard".
He has done the honorable thing and has re-established a precedent and code of honour so often sneered at by previous Tory Ministers
This is clearly an abuse of office, and should not be tolerated.
He was right to quit, but he should be considered for another influential position as he is clearly able to contribute a lot. He had to resign to live up to the Labour standards he started to promote.
They cannot attack the previous Government and expect to have different rules now the labour Party is in power. They had to go.
Yes, probably in view of the adverse publicity, but I don't thik he did anything particularly wrong. It is a sad state of affairs when media coverage so influences the actions of our top ministers but that seems to be the world we live in.
One has to admire politicians who put the reputation and fortunes of their party before their self-interests. How refreshing it would be if President Clinton could do likewise.
Yes, if you are unable to recognise the conflict of interest then you are obviously not applying the morals and standards expected of the leaders.
Yes - he should have gone much sooner.
They had to go. Although I doubt they'd done anything wrong. They have to be seen to be squeaky clean.
I do not like the way in which Mandleson has tried to manipulate the media, I am not a supporter of his 'New labour'. However I feel that he has been hounded out of office for a minor offence. There are strong parallels with the treatment of President Clinton and of the treatment given to England football managers. None of us are perfect. However once the press smell blood they apply pressure which is disproportionate and force a resignation. Most people could not withstand this pressure, and therefore will be unlikely to accept public office in future. This will harm democracy
They were right to resign. How could there not be a conflict of interest ?
People in public life should be "squeeky clean" and ministers need to resign if there is any possibility of their position being compromised.
No. Mandelson could have stayed and apologised to the nation for not coming clean. He is a formiddable architect of policy and PR. He will be sorely missed by the party whose election success was largely down to his work.
About time, but I'm sure with a high flying job back in the real world he will have no problem paying the money back.
No, he shouldn't resign. He's a fantastic leader and communicator. What is the point in throwing away him and his abilities? Everyone deserves a second chance. Even the most powerful person in the world!
Yes he was right to go, Labour are proving to be worse than the Tories. After all, they have not even been in power 2 years and the sleaze is worse so far than 13years of tory rule.
I think it was the only acceptable thing for Mandelsson to do. His integrity was surely comprised with the public knowledge that cabinet ministers - our governors - have been handing each other sizeable monetary trinkets.
Blair should have fired them both and should consider his own position
It's only right that Madleson, who's behaviour has lead to the destruction of many political careers, should himself fall prey to similar antics. Its unbelievable that someone should have taken a large loan from an individual who was being investigated by his own department and felt he did not need to declare that fact. I'm sure he did feel he needed to declare it but hoped he could keep in quiet. Unfortunately, in the media driven environment, of which he was a principal advocate whilst in opposition, this was not possible. In summary, his departure is no loss to the country or the government.
Yes.He had no choice.
Yes. He should have resigned given the circumstances.
It is extremely sad to see such a charismatic man such as Peter Mandelson quit the Government. I believe that he should be judged on his capability to fulfil his role and not on peripheral issues such as the personal loan from Mr Robinson.
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