![]() |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Friday, December 4, 1998 Published at 14:08 GMT
Fergal Keane answers your questions ROBIN:Roz Coffey is on the line. Roz what did you want to ask Fergal? Roz: Well Fergal many of us were deeply moved by your letter to Daniel. How did his birth affect the way you reported, where you reported from and what you reported? I think it certainly made the job of reporting war zones and trouble spots much more difficult because anybody who's had a child, I think this is a universal feeling, will tell you that once you've had a child it becomes unbearably hard to look at the suffering of children. Now, you know, I found it difficult before I ever had a child but since having Daniel it's getting to the point where it's impossible. Roz: Well I certainly noticed that perhaps where you've been reporting from now certainly being softer places in the world than before. I don't know whether that's a conscious decision that you've made because you have responsibilities as a father or whether that's a conscious decision by the BBC because you're such a valuable item now. I'd like to think it's the latter. I think there is a very fundamental question here and that is can you fly around the world preaching about human rights and the rights of children and then put yourself in the situation where you might deny your own child the right to have a father for the rest of his life? I don't think morally you can do that. And that is presenting me with a profound dilemma. ROBIN: John Fitzgerald is on the line from Manchester in Northern England. Hello Fergal, how are you?I'm fine. Good Irish name. Thank you. Over the years you've reported on some quite remarkable events and you've probably seen mankind at its worst and at its best. Do these experiences make you more hopeful or fearful for Daniel's future? I think one lives all the time in a sort of oscillation between hope and fear and particularly when you do travel to some of the darker zones of the human experience. Overall I would have to say that I live in hope, I must do that. I think that seen broadly that there is, given the right circumstances and given good leadership and decent economic conditions, and you do by and large see the better side of humanity coming out more and more often. I'm not saying that the world we face into as the millennium approaches is easy and that the problems of poverty and the huge gaps between the developed and undeveloped world that these are going to be easy things to sort out but the council of despair is one that I would never ever offer. Quite right too. I've got a small girl and I feel exactly the same. ROBIN: Some e-mail questions. Malcolm Turner wants to know how you stay detached and objective when faced with some of the more awful spectacles that you've had to witness? I think there is this question of objectivity we have to define what we mean by it. If you see something that is profoundly evil then there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying this is evil and I speak of genocide in particular. Or if you see something like apartheid in South Africa it is absolutely correct and proper to say that it is evil. However, there is a huge distinction between doing that and becoming a cheerleader for any political side or cause. Because I did a great deal of reporting for BBC World Service and from Africa, the sort of strictures which are imposed on you, quite rightly, from London make sure that you don't get drawn into the - saying, well because of apartheid is that and the ANC is all wonderful and there the kind of crucial distinctions you have to make. Also there's nothing wrong with having a sort of passionate heart about injustice as long as that is your engine, it's not the thing that - it doesn't make you distort facts. ROBIN: Fergal you mentioned Rwanda. Marianne Le Blanc is on the line from Sumarabat in Azerbaijan she has a question specifically about Rwanda. Marianne? Yes I was wondering if you still have the dreams about Rwanda and if it's affected you in your life? I was there after the war, immediately after the war, and I found even that to be a very sort of formative experience. You're absolutely right. I think in every journalistic life, I mean in every life, there is a definitive experience and for me Rwanda certainly was that experience. Nothing could have prepared me for the scale of what I was witnessing. Genocide isn't like ordinary killing, I know that sounds terribly self-evident but it was just the huge scale of thousands of thousands of dead people. And I suppose the idea that somebody was trying to wipe out an entire race of people, that's something that our generation hasn't had experience of. Yes, the people who lived through the Second World War knew about it but we in our time did not. And I think that while the dreams have gone I think the sort of spiritual scar that Rwanda involved will never go away. ROBIN: Yaw Sam is calling from Toronto in Canada, he also has a question about Rwanda. Yaw Sam? Hello. My question is in Rwanda and Burundi we have two ethnic groups of Tutsis and Hutus. Unfortunately we have just witnessed the genocide of Tutsis by some of the Hutus. Now the problem that I have is that it seems to me that the reporting on Rwanda and Burundi, the Hutus who form the majority of the people, because of the recent incident, atrocious incident, they are not being given, you know, air play or the price has not been, [inaudible] ..... that means from 80 per cent of the population the army and the government is now controlled by the Tutsis in these two countries. As far as I'm concerned as an African what is the world doing to have everlasting peace in that circumstance? That's a very valid question. The demographics of the political power situation in both Burundi and Rwanda at the moment are frightening. Yes you're absolutely correct the government there is, in Rwanda, is largely Tutsi the population is overwhelming majority Hutu but ask yourself this question if you held an election, in the morning who do you think would be returned to power? the people who would be returned to power are those who carried out the genocide, there's absolutely no doubt about that. Do you expect any Tutsi regime to allow that to happen? No of course it's not in the practical world of politics. That doesn't mean, however, that we can continue indefinitely with the present power structure, political structure in Rwanda because that is the recipe, I believe, for another upheaval, another disaster. The way you start, I think, is by insisting that the rule of law is followed and the international community must do this, it must insist that Rwanda and Burundi implement and follow the rule of law. Only then with the growth of civil society can you think about democratisation. That it's going to happen in the long term I have no doubt but it's going to be quite a long time. ROBIN: Yaw Sam what do you say to that?Yea well it's true, yea it's true but what we know is that this genocide was committed by what you say, Hutu extremists. Even some Hutus were, victims of the genocide too. The prime minister then was a woman, she was a Hutu, she was killed by these extremists. So it seems to me that if the status quo which is now in place is allowed to hold on, if the Tutsis having power over the Hutus, there will be no everlasting peace. I'm an African and I know that in African countries where the majority ethnic group is ruled by the minority there'll be no peace in the long run. Another e-mail question. Tutman Mohammed is from Somalia but he now lives in Helsinki, Finland and he writes: "Mr Keane what do you think are the main reasons why Africa is lagging behind so badly in its economic development? What needs to be done to turn around the situation". I think there's no doubt that there is a serious economic crisis. That's terribly obvious. But I would point to some improvements in recent years and certainly a sense of hope in many African countries, the terribly obvious example of course is Uganda. I spoke a while ago about the council of despair. There was a time in the 70s and up to the mid 80s when the great dictators were rampant in Africa when one had to despair at the evidence that existed. But I do think there is a new mood in Africa and what we've got to do now, from the international community, is not buy into a situation where we support a new generation of dictators, and I think, particularly, of somebody like Kabila in Congo. I think we're in dreadful danger of doing it. If we do give aid, I'm not saying we should have patronising strings attached but we've got to put people in on the ground to make sure that the money is spent properly on long term sustainable projects. ROBIN: Fergal you said no council of despair. Pamela Meggitt calling from Swaziland has a question. Pamela? Yes I would like to ask Fergal the news from Africa is so often bad news and you yourself have reported so many horror stories. What is the human story that personally has given you most optimism for the future? Oh without a shadow of a doubt there was a school outside Johannesburg on the East Rand called the Chicken Farm which was built, basically, out of old chicken coops and was run by a very dedicated team of volunteer teachers and there are several hundreds of young black pupils and you go out there and you see kids who got up at maybe 5 or 6 in the morning and walked miles and miles to get to school and they're there in immaculate uniforms, because they have individual pride, because they're not going to be told by any government that they're second class or second best. I think you find that throughout Africa, incredible dignity. And, perhaps one of the regrets I do have about reporting Africa is that as a journalist, when I switch my camera on people who are naked and starving in the dust I am aware, to some degree, of taking away their dignity because that image does take away their dignity. ROBIN: Fergal that raises an issue which was brought up just a couple of days ago by a British Cabinet minister, Clare Short, at a conference where she said that she was worried that too many images, which the Western media portray about Africa, are negative. You talk about the naked starving children. Sure and I've been part of that. And we're all part of that. And I think there must be a ... I think there is now a process of questioning going on and we've got to try and stand back and assess how we report the continent. I'm not saying, however, and where I disagree with Clare Short is that you censor what's unpleasant simply because it gives people here shivers. ROBIN: But there's a balance that you think....? I think there's a balance which we're not getting at the moment. Joshua Sulaiman calling from San José in California. Joshua what's your question? My question I think was that in the pre-independence time in West Africa in particular, and Africa as a whole, there was the prospect of happiness for the low class people and I call them that way at the time because these are people in the villages. They have the pleasure to enjoy their products but after independence things changed dramatically and then we've seen a lot of wars, a lot of civil wars especially in West Africa. Today what do you think these leaders should do to bring back the happiness that these people enjoyed during the pre- independence time? For a lot of them it's simply stop robbing your people, stop being a thief, stop being corrupt, stop abusing your power. And they're pretty simple things to do. If they just followed those then a lot of people would be much happier. ROBIN: Joshua?Yea but you know if we can bring example in Ghana where Rawlings took over. The IMF would dare to introduce some of the ways and controls and labour structure, do you think that might help most African countries today? I think there is, yes, a role that the international community and the IMF and World Bank can play but I wouldn't be absolute about that. Many people in Africa, they are bitterly resentful of structure and adjustment and the kind of economic medicine that's being forced on them by the West and I worry, sometimes, that a lot of people in Africa see it as a new kind of colonialism. So we've got to approach it with humility. Annan Doreswami in Bangalore, India remembers, Fergal, your reports from Ireland and he says that he has the feeling that John Hume, the Leader of the SDLP, mainly Catholic party, is something of a Nelson Mandela because he has pursued the path of peace. He thinks, Mr Doreswami thinks, he deserves a Nobel Prize and wants to know if you agree? I would be being political partial if I said that. What I would say is that the incredible triumph of common sense and that's the only word I can use to describe it, in Ireland has taken me completely by surprise. I think they've all been hugely brave. Just John Hume was a remarkably far-sighted man because years ago he came up with the idea of having dual referendums in Ireland as a means of securing a mandate for change. But also David Trimble, Gerry Adams, the leaders of the loyalist fringe parties, all of them deserve credit for being able to do something I never thought I would see in Ireland and that's looking in front of themselves and not behind. ROBIN: Fergal we're getting a lot of calls about Africa. A lot of people want to know what you think about your experiences there. Garnet White is on the line from Spanish Town in Jamaica, Garnet what was your question? Yes. My question is: would you agree that a lot of the conflicts in Africa today are really from the time when starving Europeans came calling? I think that colonialism certainly has left a bitter and terrible legacy in many parts of Africa. There's no doubt about that. And I think that's long recognised, you'll find few historians now who would dispute that view. However, it's a bit like the kid who was beaten up when he was a child and then grows up to abuse his own children. Too many African leaders have used the legacy of colonialism as an excuse to hold on to power in an undemocratic fashion and to abuse their own populations. I think again going back to the very start of this discussion we have got to acknowledge and recognise what happened in the past but it cannot be used as an excuse to prolong un-democratic power structures or to abuse your own people with impunity. ROBIN:Kaushik Kapisthalam is on the line from Columbus in Ohio. Kaushik you've got a question? Yes. Good afternoon everyone. My question is to Mr Keane about the Indonesian crisis: I can't understand why the West failed to anticipate this uprising, I mean it doesn't take a genius to figure out that this was going to happen, given the corrupt nature of Suharto's regime and its inept handling of the economic crisis. I mean, more generally I see the West is simply reacting to the crisis now in Asia than trying to pre-empt it. I mean, you take the Indian nuclear crisis why are they just reacting to crises, they could have done something to stop this. Alright let's stick with Indonesia now. Fergal you've visited Indonesia more than once did the West ignore what was happening there for too long? I think what we did which is the mistake that we make all over the world and that is we assume that because a leader brings stability we'll then turn a blind eye to the more atrocious side of his behaviour. Mabutu in Africa was a classic case in point. Suharto in Indonesia is just another example of it. For God's sake stop buying into this idea that because people give you stability for a while you can avoid ultimately an explosion because that's what always happens. And I come back to Kabila in the Congo as the next one I fear who's going to prove that the sort of medicine of supporting people just because they give stability is a very foolish thing. |
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||