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Thursday, December 3, 1998 Published at 09:00 GMT


Kosovo: Should the world intervene?



Presented by Robin Lustig on Sunday 21 June

Read the emails ROBIN: Our first caller is Dritan Kaleshi, who is an ethnic Albanian, Dritan, what do you think should happen now? Dritan Well, it_s a very difficult situation and a very traumatic one for everyone of Albanian origin, either from Kosovo or from Albania, as I am myself. Considering all the actions taken by the Milosevic regime in Kosovo my personal reaction to it is that the world should intervene. It is not a question of if the world should intervene, it_s only a matter of when and how strongly they will do it. ROBIN But intervene to what purpose, Dritan? Do you believe that the international community ought to be saying Kosovo has the right to be independent and should force Mr Milosevic to allow it to go its own separate way? Dritan No, the simple reason here is that the speaker before me said that ninety percent of the population in Kosovo is Albanian. Now, we have the right of a nation for self-determination and that_s what needs to be applied in Kosovo as well. ROBIN Stay on the line Dritan, don_t go away. I just want to bring in Marko Pendrek who_s calling from Belgrade. Marko, what view do you take about what_s happening in Kosovo? Marko Well, I have some true information from Kosovo. Lots of police enforcement men are dying in Kosovo because the Kosovo Liberation Army is taking several terrorist acts against military and police officers in the region. I would ask you one thing. Do you think the British army should leave British territory in any part to answer questions of the international community. Yugoslavia is an independent country and the army and police forces of Yugoslavia are only keeping security in the region. It is the same question that is happening in Northern Ireland. Your police and armed forces are in Ireland, how would you feel if the international community ordered your government, to HM Elizabeth II, to withdraw armed security forces from any region of the United Kingdom, especially Northern Ireland? ROBIN Let me ask you this question if I may. If ninety per cent of the people in Kosovo are of Albanian origin, and if a substantial number of those people want either autonomy or independence, is it you view that they have no right to that? Marko Excuse me, Robin, but you are mistaking one line here. Yugoslavia is ready to give any right to ethnic Albanians who want autonomy. It_s OK, they can have their religion, they can have their schools if they want to. They can go into parliament if they hold elections, but they are abstaining elections for maybe twenty years. They are not giving their candidates. What can we do about it? ROBIN Stop there, we can go straight back to Dritan Kaleshi. Dritan, when you hear Marko talking like that from Belgrade how do you react? Dritan Well, it_s one side of the medal, and there are always two sides to it or even more sometimes. ROBIN Marko says that autonomy is not a problem. Is that the way you see it? Dritan How true is it? The fact is, why was autonomy revoked in the first place in 1989? All the problems in Kosovo really started after the revoking of the autonomy that the Kosovo region had under the previous Yugoslav Republic. ROBIN Well, I can ask Marco that question directly. Marco, it was taken away in 1989, why? Marko Autonomy isn_t really revoked in 1989. Several measures were taken to prevent Albanian terrorist organisations who actually started in 1989. Many young Albanians then took up arms and organised groups to organise terrorist actions against the Serbian establishment. I must say that Dritan is looking at this picture from his own side and I am living in Serbia and I have one friend who was a policeman and he got killed eleven days ago in Kosovo. ROBIN Alright Marko, I am going to bring in Paul Wood at this point. We have here, very starkly, the two views about what_s happening in Kosovo. Let me just take one point that Marko Pendlek made. Kosovo is part of Serbia, what is happening there, it can be argued, is an internal matter to be dealt with by Serbia. What right does anybody outside have to impose it_s own will? Paul Wood Actually, the international community is not saying that Kosovo should be independent. There is a principle in international law that borders should not be changed by force and this is a sovereign state, an internationally recognised territory. In all the criticism of the Serbian and Yugoslav authorities, that has been forgotten. The criticism is of the manner in which the police and security forces are acting. According to Robin Cook, the British Foreign Secretary, it is indiscriminate use of force. According to Madeleine Albright, the American Secretary of State, it is ethnic cleansing. So the west, the international community, has a difficult balancing act, on the one hand to protect human rights, on the other hand not to give a signal to the Kosovars that what is in fact being proposed is to redraw the boundary of a sovereign state. Our next caller is Konstantinos Marcopoulos. I take it from your name that you are Greek. Do you worry that the conflict in Kosovo could have effects in Greece itself? Konstantinos. It is a question, but the problem is that I would like to see this problem somehow contained. I do not want to see the situation to be explosive and spill out into neighbouring countries. ROBINDo you mean contained by military means? Konstantinos Ideally not by military means. Probably the best way would be diplomatic and political means. It is a very delicate situation, so I wouldn_t really like to see any foreign troops in Kosovo. I would like to see both sides sit down and do their best for their own sides. ROBIN Thanks Konstantinos. Rex Quzia is on the line from Montenegro. Rex, what view do you take about what_s happening in Kosovo? Rex My view is that the international community should recognise Kosovo as independent based on self-determination. Every nation has a right to choose if they want to stay together with some other people or declare their independence. ROBIN Would you also argue that Montenegro has the same right then? Rex Montenegro has the same rights and Albanians in Former Yugoslavia have the same rights. Why should Albanians that are completely different people, different nationality, different language, be forced to stay with Serbs together when slavonic nations like Croatians, Macedonians, Slovenes, and Bosnians have a right to secede? ROBIN Rex, thank you. Paul Wood, we have here a continuing crisis which results from the break-up of the old Yugoslavia. Rex quite rightly says that a number of different nations have emerged from that old federal republic. Are you really saying that the international view is that Kosovo does not have the right to join Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia. Paul Well, there is some ambiguity here because there is an administrative boundary in Serbia. Kosovo was a separate province and some people argue that therefore, just as within the old six-republic Yugoslavia the administrative boundaries between Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and all the rest could be turned into international boundaries, so this could be extended to Kosovo as well. Other people argue that what the Kosovars are asking is the same as the Bosnian Serbs, to redraw an internal boundary. It_s semantics, but semantics which are causing a small war now in the south of the country. Our next caller is Bleron Baraliu who is an ethnic Albanian from Kosovo who is in New York. Do you want to see a nato military intervention in Kosovo? Bleron: Yes indeed, but before that I want to comment on the demographic battle and the political battle in Kosovo because there was a comment earlier that the Serbians have lost the demographic battle. The truth is that Albanians have lost the demographic battle in Yugoslavia for the last 17 centuries. Serbs first came from the 12th/13th century for the first time in Kosovo . This comes from Noel Malcolm who wrote the book Kosovo short history. We all know the world does not want to change borders by force, they want to keep Yugoslavia content. The reason we need an independant Kosovo is because it is not a change of borders by force but a change of borders by will. 99% of Albanians have voted for independance. War will determine at what cost do they want to keep Yugoslavia together. Robin: If there were to be a military intervention in Kosovo, you believe that the purpose of that intervention ought to be to obtain independance for Kosovo, because thats not what seems to be in Nato's mind at the moment. Bleron: What I believe what should be their reason for intervening is to stop the massacre of military and police forces in Kosovo. International communities have told Serbs time and time again to withdraw all the forces because it is the only way to deal with the Serbs and talk to Albanians. Quoting foreign sources KLA controls about 40% of the total of Kosovo and they will go all the way through regardless of a Nato attack or not. Robin: Jaroslav Cerny is on the line he is a Serb who lives in Jakarta in Indonesia. What is your view on this? Jaroslav: I believe the most important thing right now is to stop the flow of thousands of people to the separists movement in Kosovo. In order to stop the further bloodshed and to get down to the negotiating table. Robin: The flow of arms from Albania you mean do you? Jaroslav: Not only from Albania, from the other European countries and the USA, because I believe they are gathering the money all over the world for arming the separists movement. Robin: So if there were to be a proposal to put international forces along the border, let us say for now, between Albania & Kosovo in order to monitor movements in both directions, you would be in favour of that would you? Jaroslav: I would have no opinion of that, it is not the Yugoslav problem really what happens in the other countries, if it helps to curb the flow of the arms I would be for it. I believe I don_t have a reason to object for that. Robin: Our next caller is coming in from The capital of Kosovo, Deal Bakalli. Deal what does it feel like in Pristina at the moment? Do you wish to see foreign troops come in? Deal: Yes I would like that it would be much better if they come in , if they come earlier there will be less victims. So it is better for us and everyone here. Robin: How would you describe the atmosphere in Pristina at the moment? Deal: Its not so bad its kind of good, but we are surrounded by military force in Pristina, they are all around us. We are all afraid. Robin: If Nato, foreign forces were to arrive in Kosovo what would you wish them to do? What do you think their goal should be? Do you think they should come in with the view to halt the security operations which are currently underway, do you think they should come in order to force Serbia to give Kosovo independance? Why should they come? Deal: Because every country in the whole world should have their independance. Everybody needs to be free in this world, because we live altogether and share this planet. Robin: Alright I am grateful to you for that, thanks very much. Stephen Yeung is calling, from New York, what is your view on all this? Stephen: I think that Nato and if possible the mandate from the UN, should intervene militarily in the Kosovo situation in order to perserve peace and stability in the region, I think that Nato in conjuction again with the UN should establish a milartary presence, that will protect the Kosovo Albanians from further agression, while maintaining Yugoslavias territorial integrity. I think that Nato should organise democratic proceedings in order to determine the fate of the region. Robin: But Stephen do you really believe that all that can be imposed by outside forces. Wasn_t one of the lessons of Bosnia how difficult it was for that to be done against the will of those who are actually there on the grounds. Stephen: I think that if the European community is committed to seeing peace pervail in the region, then I believe that the united will of the European countries versus Serbias agression will out. Because the military power of the Nato is far superior to Serbia, I believe Serbia won't back down if faced with overwhelming superiority



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