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Wednesday, December 2, 1998 Published at 18:22 GMT
Sudan - should we do more? ![]() Presented by Robin Lustig on Sunday 10 May On the line now is Mark Hermont in Nairobi, who is from the aid agency Medicins sans Frontiere. Mark, give us your understanding of what the latest situation is in the worst affected areas. The situation is a continuous deterioration in Bahr El Ghazal. We currently have 4,000 children in our feeding programme. We had 1,500 some weeks ago so we see a continuous deterioration in the situation. Robin: Is there still a difficulty for aid agencies to get the sort of supplies that are needed in to the areas where they are needed? A:The situation has improved since more clearance has been given but we strongly fear that it is not going to be sufficient. The situation is very serious in Bahr El Ghazal but the situation is getting worse in other parts of South Sudan. We fear that we are not going to be in a position to address the whole issue for the moment. There is a need for increasing of the access and the means. Robin: Apart from the immediate needs for the people for food to keep them alive today, tomorrow and coming weeks, you also have the problem of how they are going to feed themselves in the months to come. A: Yes definitely. There are two issues: the food they need urgently and the seeds and tools. The current situation is with the priority being given to food and according to the cargo capacity to try to bring seeds and tools to give them hope to build a future. If this is not possible to do we can say that we will have the current situation for the next twelve to fifteen months. Robin: We are now going to move to another caller, Dahlia Haj Omar calling from Indiana in the United States. Dahlia, I'm right in saying you are Sudanese. A: Yes I'm from the North. Robin: How do you feel about what is happening in the South? A: I would like to start with a very warm apology to my Southern brothers and sisters for the long history of broken promises and ingenuine attempts to integrate them as citizens into Sudan with equal rights. Robin: Do you feel that the war has been the fault of the north? A: Yes I seriously believe it is the fault of the North and the political elites who refuse to share power. Robin: Dahlia, do you think it is right for relief agencies to try to bring food and other help into the South even though the war is continuing? A: At the moment we do not need international charity at all: it has been there for the past ten years under the UN's Operation Lifeline which has been pouring millions and millions of dollars yearly. This is not news for the northeners. The problem is that we have to deal with the problem at its roots and this has not been done. Robin: The problem at its roots is that large parts of the South want to have very large amounts of autonomy if not independence and this is not acceptable to the authorities in Khartoum. A: Yes but they do deserve that. It's a very reasonable thing to ask for. Robin: Mark Helmont in Nairobi What is your response to this point of the efficacy of taking aid into an area where war is raging, I mean as long as there is war there is going to be hardship A: It's definitely true. Hope really relies on a good peace agreement and its from there that the situation is going to improve. On the other hand are we supposed to leave a population that has been affected by war and such a disastrous situation. Despite the war and with people on the ground to channel the food to the population in need I am sure we have to continue what we are doing. Robin: I know you have been to this area recently, don't you sometimes think when you look at the people you are helping and think what real use is this as long as the war continues because the problem will continue as well. A: It's true that the problem will continue but the population are still in need and I don't think they are responsible for the war that is going on. I think that they are paying enough already and I don't see how we could say okay lets wait for the peace, which I'm sorry to say is unlikely to happen in the near future, so there is a need to do something and despite the fact that we know the war is going to definitely continue as it is a chronicle and permanent unstable situation. Robin: What about the risk that some of the stuff that you ferry in goes straight to the soldiers and not to the civilians who need it most. A: I think that it is our responsibility to do our job properly and to have people on the ground who make sure that the relief goes properly to the people in need. Robin: And you think you are able to do this. A: Yes I think we are. Robin: Asim Ghani in Karachi, do you think Sudan should be divided into north and south AG: Yes I do Robin: And you think that will solve all the problems? AG: I'm not saying that I'm just expressing an opinion, which is partly based on the experience of Pakistan. I think we are much better off without east Pakistan and they are much better off without us controlling them. It's fine for a country or a region to have ethnic and cultural diversity, I think its the beauty of south Asia that we have such diversity but I think the ethnic, religious and cultural differences between north and south Sudan are unbridgeable. Robin: Do you think that it is a political solution that people ought to be focusing on rather than a humanitarian AG: I think it's both humanitarian and political Robin: lets go back to Dalia in Indiana USA Dalia you were saying earlier that you wanted to apologise to the people of the south for what has been happening. Do you agree that they ought to have the right to their own state? DH: Well it sounds so good but I don't think its feasible at all because Sudan has been at a total standstill for ten years and is not able to sustain itself economically or politically. It's not going to stop the problem because its not the only underdeveloped, suffering part of the country, the eastern and western are also regionally underdeveloped; it is a national problem. Robin: Nazar Dahab is calling from New Jersey, What is your view about what best should be done for the people of Southern Sudan ND: I am from the north but I think we should forget about the government and we should sympathise with the people in the South. They are hungry and we should provide food for them. Robin: When you say we, do you mean the international community or do you think the people of Sudan should deal with it. ND: People of Sudan can't. I'm talking about the international community. Robin: There is the argument that you could continue providing food for as long as you like but as long as the war continues there is going to be continuing need for this kind of assistance. Is it not time to deal with the underlying problem. ND: Yes it is time to deal with the underlying problem. But let me ask you a question, I have lived here in the US for 8 years and we have racial diversity but they haven't divided the north and the south why should they divide Sudan. If we could give pressure to the government we could provide those people in need with food. If I could, I would go there myself. Robin : Dr Col Dau Ding, in East Anglia,UK What are your views about all of this? Dr: I really give a lot of compliments to the BBC for having access to an area which is so difficult to get to. Robin: So you don't agree with the email we have just had that the media have not been doing a very good job in dealing with the problems of southern Sudan Dr: Well I would agree in one way but I would also disagree. It is true that the infrastructure and mobility and difficulties in the area and accessibility where the problems occur are so difficult that it needs a courageous reporter to go there. Robin: Neil Moniquany in Finland, What would you like to say on this NM: My comment is about the question of Southern Sudan, I don't think there is any solution apart from dividing the north and the south. The west should put pressure on the government and there should be a demilitarisation of the south. Robin: You say demilitarisation and the south split away from the north, would it be able to survive by itself? NM: Sure, there are countries which are landlocked with no food and are surviving and you can't let people die because the south can't survive alone. Robin: Simon O'Lee in Paris, : What's your point SO: In France there are people who are talking about the importance of creating a special international force whose task would be that of interfering in disastrous situations , whose function would be delivering relief and aid and one which would have the military weight necessary. Robin: Do you think that's a good idea SO: I think its a very good idea, a lot of people have been talking about this ever since Bosnia but I haven't seen any creative work done since Bosnia and I think its an important moment for the media to pick up this idea Robin: Its not easy though lets say in Sudan that the UN took the view that it is such a situation but the government in Khartoum said oh no we don't want any such foreign force interfering thank you very much, do you believe the force ought to go in despite the wishes of the government SO: I think so, regardless of the political situation is predominant regardless of whether the government in power agrees or not I think a force has to interfere and that has to be internationally recognised and given legitimacy through the creation of a charter or a tax created by the UN which allows that sort of intervention to have international legitimacy. Robin: Would you be worried that such a force would be used when the USA wanted it to be and wouldn't be used when the US was opposed to it. SO: That's a very relevant and difficult question. I think the charter has to provide for the identification of a situation as sufficiently critical for all member states regardless of their position within the structure to agree to interfere and there has to be a body of internationally recognised experts, an independent body who can force all the member states to accept that. Abubakhr Sidamed in Dubai You are also Sudanese. What is your view about this? AS: This is a Humanitarian crisis and it needs an urgent intervention, these people have to be helped immediately Robin: It's a humanitarian crisis but there is a political element as well AS: Of course there is but what matters at the moment is that these people need to be saved. Robin: Saved today but at the risk that in the future they will be at risk again AS: That is why I have initiated a online call for the Sudanese to get involved by paying a dollar. When these people pay a dollar to save a life they might get committed and feel involved and that all this need to be sorted out for once and for all Robin: Okay so you feel that the Sudanese themselves have some responsibility for dealing with what is happening in the South AS: Absolutely we can't wait for international aid only we have to get committed. Robin: Here's Matt Rainer, a Britain from Helsinki. MR: I see the tragedy unfolding in Africa is a consequence of Western vested interest in perpetuating wars there. When our bankers have provided the money to finance wars there we raid the country there and then get out quick. Robin: What you're saying is that the West has a responsibility for the conflict. A: Yes absolutely. The whole problem in Africa is a consequence of Western vested interests in the place and it is such a tragedy to see it unfolding. Robin: Steven Constentine is calling from Copenhagen. A: I have been supporting the rebels in the South for ten years with £100 a month through the Danish Red Cross and it's a question of fundamentalist Islam and the poor black people in the South. It's as simple as that. I think that Britain and the United States should get together and try to settle it in as reasonable a way as possible and they are both reasonable Governments. Robin: Its a very difficult and intractable conflict. A: It is not intractable. I'm a Christian, a Roman Catholic and I believe that we Christians can get together and try to persuade these Muslims in Khartoum that there is a way out of this through Jesus Christ. Robin: An now to Bele Olubodum from London who is Nigerian. The problem in Sudan needs a military solution. If you look at the wider African picture the Arab North in Africa is quite arrogant when trying to discuss issues about the entire continent. The problem with South Sudan is that they keep classifying the conflict along religious lines. A lot of African countries are willing to help them militarily but they do not want to start drumming up religious sentiments in their own countries. The conflict in Sudan is not about Muslim North and Christian South, it's about Arab North and African South and this has got to be emphasised. Your Emails: Leslie Monplaisir, from the US says that: The most important question is whether the food is getting through to the people who need it the most. What can Africa do to help itself? They need to set up regional food banks and use local distribution channels who are familiar with the local condition. Part of the problem is that the overseas agencies do know the local condition and hence the aid end up in hands solders. Why is is that even western scholarship and intelligentsia for the most part are not as forthright ae they ought to be in correlataing the need to sell arms to the colonised Thord World and the divisions created in places like Sudan, India, Pakistan, and other areas of Africa, and Asia. There is too much of an hypocricy in the notion by the Europeans and Americans posturing as peacemakers, and continually promoting overtly and covertly bog arms deals in parts of the world where disarmament ought to be the order of the day. It's in the interest of western arms business to see factionalisation of former colonies. Surely, the problem is that the world has to stop arming both sides and tighten the grip on the government The problem is that the muslim world has in the last 10 - 20 years started arming muslim regimes throughout the world - similar to what the previous superpowers did and have been doing this century. How can this be stopped? With great difficulty. Sanjay Amin from British Virgin Islands Dear BBC: Seeing the history of Sudanese civil war, we understand that those so-called partied in Sudan are least interested in the welfare of people in general; their interest is only in usurping the ruling throne. We have also noticed the failure of the UNO to bring peace and stable rule in Sudan; therefore, won't it be appropriate to make people understand not to support any group but to voice their concern for the UNO that can mediate and bring a compromised government until the fair elections can be held? Chen Nagar New York Why does the Western media wait till there is a crisis -- famine, war or disaster -- before they cover issues related to Third World countries like Sudan? Why is the BBC working so hard to cover the issue in a manner that disallows the world from seeing things in proper, historical perspective? Isn't it a fact that the first national government of "Mahdi" Muhammad Ahmad (in the 1880s) endangered the British strategy of to unify the entire area from Cairo to Capetown and place it under their rule? Isn't it also true that after World War I, the British perceived nationalist feelings in the area (Egypt and Sudan), so drew up a project to split the country by annexing the predominantly Black South to Uganda while keeping the northern "condominium" Arab and Muslim? Britain itself has been accused of intentionally stressing factual differences between the two regions, in order to stimulate their separate. The colonial administration went as far as declaring marriages between southerners and northerners illegal. Doesn't all this have much to do with the death of nearly one million Sudanese in the civil war, before the March 1972 ceasefire? So, who caused all these problems? Who is trying to solve them? What is the role of the IMF in that country since the late 'seventies? What is the link between famine today and the IMF demands for reducing wheat subsidies, hiking fuel prices by 60% and boosting other taxes? Fred. Bombay, India. I'm listening to your excellent program from east Austria, sitting outside in terrific sunshine - it's difficult to believe that there are problems anywhere in the world, but, I know better. I spent two years in immediate post Gulf war Iraq with my wife working for the ODA and UNICEF so I know first hand how badly divided the world is. The solution - "Change human nature". But before that happens we should continue trying as hard to help in all ways. Best regards, Alan Laing |
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