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Wednesday, December 2, 1998 Published at 17:27 GMT


Israel at 50: What chance for peace?



Presented by Robin Lustig on Sunday 26 April

Our first call comes appropriately from Jerusalem, Jennifer Hall is on the line there. Jennifer what do you think as the 50th birthday approaches?

I don't think it can be right that Israel is pressurised to give up land that is by right and they've had for 3,000 years to a people that refuse to amend their constitution regarding Israel's right to exist, who refuse to extradite wanted murderers from land already given to them and to a people who repeatedly issue a call for acts of terror and violence against Israel.

You are talking about the Palestinians?

Yes.

And you think there is scope for compromise or no scope for compromise?

There is always scope for compromise but what upsets me is that the whole world is pressurising Israel to give up land when the Palestinians refuse to amend their constitution and refuse to extradite wanted murderers and there are constant calls for terror. Of course there should be compromise and of course there should be peace between the two nations but not when Israel is repeatedly pressurised to give up land and get nothing in return absolutely nothing. I live just outside Jerusalem and we live next to an Arab village and the Jews, there's no problem with the Jews but the Arabs they come and they steal our cars we have to have constant 24 hour security because of the Arabs and people who do not live in Israel and do not live among the Arabs don't realise how dangerous this is.

Sorry to stop you there but we do in fact have another call from Jerusalem, Joel Goldberg is calling also from that city. Joel do you agree with what Jennifer has just been saying?

I'm calling from Bethshemish which is 40 minutes outside a little further away in essence I remember when Sadat came to Jerusalem he said that Egypt wanted to regain control over the Sinai and that Egypt was no longer going to pursue this thing through force of arms and while there was some negotiation and some arbitration over what territories Sinai constituted in the end Egypt got control over the territory that it was looking for. And its always seemed to me that even before the 1987 start of the Interfada, the Palestinians could have done the sensitive thing they could have said here is the territory in which we wish to establish a Palestinian state and here is the territory which we acknowledge as being part of the territory of the state of Israel. This is what we want but we're not going to fight or threaten violence to achieve it. And I think that the result of such an approach after some negotiation over details would be a state of Palestine because such an approach is morally very compelling and it undercuts Israeli security arguments.

And you would be prepared to live side by side with a Palestinian state would you Joel?

I think I would be but what is surprising what bothers the Israeli middle, the people who essentially decide who's going to be in and who's going to be out in government and what really elected Benjamin Netanyhu, is that the Palestinians do not adopt such an approach. The Israeli middle feel that the Palestinians what ever concessions they make are only tactical and don't really reflect an inherent attitude that they have towards Jews and the State of Israel.

OK Joel, stay there we've got a call from Sydney Australia. Pascal Ibrahim is calling from there. Pascal you've been listening to the two previous callers - what do you make of what they've just been saying?

I am a Lebanese person and my question is what is our problem with Israel's regard to withdrawing from South of Lebanon and holding up resolution 425. That was the UN Security Council resolution that called on Israel to withdraw from Southern Lebanon wasn't it? Yes and I've heard in talks lately that they would like to withdraw out of Lebanon but they want security measures I'm open-minded about that but the only reason why they are being shot at and their soldiers injured is that they are occupying land which isn't theirs. I think the minute they withdraw out of South Lebanon they will have no problems with the Lebanese or their government at all.

Jennifer Hall I think you are still on the line from Jerusalem. Do you think its time for Israel to leave Southern Lebanon?

Israel wants to live in peace with its neighbours it wants security for the people that live in Israel, all its asking for is for people to leave it alone. If the Arabs or the Syrians or the Lebanese or whoever they are will just leave Israel alone and Hamas will just leave Israel alone. The Jewish people have never fought in the whole of their history they have never been the first to fight. We only want to defend our land. If people will just leave alone we'll leave them alone.

The problem is though Jennifer there's still no agreement on what land is Israel's land is there?

But the land of Israel has always been. It was given to the children of Israel 3,000 years ago. But if you leave aside the issue of what percentage of what land, all Israel wants is for the Palestinians or the Syrians or the Lebanese to say we will leave you alone. That's all they have to do is to say we will leave you alone.

Munther Younes is calling from the State of New York USA. What are your feelings?

I am Palestinian. I left in about 1970. I lived under a state of occupation for about three years since then it hasn't been easy to go back to my homeland. I was listening to Jennifer Hall and I wonder who really should leave the other alone. We lived in that homeland for centuries and someone just came in and took it away from us and now and they are the ones who wont leave us alone. All we want is for the Israeli army to leave the West bank and gives us 20% of what was ours for centuries. Do you think people are too ready to look back and not ready to look forward. I am heartened by a few signs from Israel. There is more acceptance of what they have done and the fact that many Israeli historians are saying what really happened.

Lets hear again from Joel Goldberg. What do you says to Mr Younes that Palestinians feel they have legitimate grievances?

Frankly I don't think anyone disputes that. We're all going to have to live together.

Kris SriKamp is calling from Madras in India.

As a person who is living in a country that celebrated an anniversary last year, I know that this is a time when a lot of soul searching takes place so you tend to look back more than look forward. I feel that, for example, when Iraq invaded Kuwait and the West was quick to condemn it and immediately took some action. I have a lot of sympathy for the Jews and the amount of suffering that they underwent but nevertheless they have captured alien territory and the West has done nothing about it. So many years later and nothing has happened.

Do you think that the West tends to be too pro-Israeli?

That is what I feel.

Thanks for that. Richard Stern is calling from Glasgow in Scotland. Richard, what are your thoughts as this fiftieth birthday approaches?

Your last caller happened to say that the Jews captured 'alien territory'. This is not actually right. During the Yom Kippur War (in 1973), Israel were not the aggressors, they were the defenders. They were attacked from all sides, and it's a miracle that at the end of the day they actually managed to win.

I think that Kris is referring to the 1967 War which led to Israel seize the West Bank Golan Heights and Gaza Strip.

Well, in that war as well Israel was the defender. Israel has never been the attacker. Israel doesn't go out to try and get territory. When they got the Golan Heights and managed to secure themselves and the war was finished, what were they supposed to do? Give it them back?

Mr Youmis is still on the line from New York State. What's your reaction to that?

I want to comment on the fact that Israel has always been the victim of aggressors. I think that Israeli supporters always tend to ignore the fact that the creation of the State in 1948 was an aggression itself. There was no Israel in 1920, or 1910, or 1900. They came from somewhere else and took away our land and what the Arabs have done without any success, (some people would interpret that as aggression) is to get Palestinian land back.

Is it your position that Israelis have no right to be on that land at all?

Well, now things of course are different. I mean, I as a Palestinian would not want to see Israel destroyed or see Israeli children killed. We've had enough violence. I think that what we need to do is to start from here (1998) and work toward the future. The Palestinians exist, the Israelis exist but both have to live in peace and dignity and mutual recognition.

Youman Tazi is calling us from Tehran in Iran. What are your thoughts as this anniversary approaches?

Well, my thoughts are that there never will be a proper peace between Israel and the Palestinians and peace on the whole in the Middle East until Israel puts aside its harsh Zionist policies and agree to fairly share Palestine with the Palistinians. There can never be peace without proper compromise.

That's a very depressing outlook. Is it your belief that there will not be peace in the Middle East in the foreseeable future.

I hope that there is peace because I live in the Middle East myself and I have sympathy for both the Palestinian people and the Jewish people but the present Israeli government and the hard-line policy which is coming from the Zionist section. They have to be harsh because if they weren't they could never take over Israel or Palestine. With this attitude they have at the moment then no, I don't see peace and there will still be guerrilla attacks and there will still be fighting unless they change their attitude and say "we are willing to share land with you and live side by side with the you."

Norman Page calls from Houston Texas.

It is sad really that things are not better. I would draw a contrast between the attitude of the west and the UN to Iraq and to Israel. Israel is allowed to ignore UN resolutions and the reason is that US policy is controlled by the American Israeli Political action committee and the US congress is controlled by that committee.



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