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Thursday, November 26, 1998 Published at 10:57 GMT


Talking Point


Pinochet's extradition - the case in favour

A criminal like Pinochet, who killed so many people for no reason than to justify his ideology deserves to be judged. In Chile it's impossible. The judiciary there is a part of the "transition" show. This would give the only chance to the victims and relatives of the victims of Pinochet's torture and killings to know what really happened.
Arturo Escandon, Japan

It would be serious blow for human rights if the Home Secretary bows to the pressure and let this tyrant escape from prosecution. It is also ironic that Chilean Foreign Minister Jose Miguel Insulza, who was himself exiled during Pinochet's dictatorship, has been pressing UK Government to release Pinochet?
Bill Erpamir, USA

The recent arrest of General Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet raises some interesting questions. For instance, if Pinochet can be tried for crimes against humanity, then why not Henry Kissenger? Why not General Norman Schwartzkopf and Colin Powell?
It is curious to me that this is never discussed. Could it be that international war crimes law applies only to weak and usually impoverished nations, and seldom to rich, western ones? International law, I would contend, serves the interests of power.
William Howard USA

Absolutely. It's time that tin pot dictators around the world realized that they can run but they can't hide. Mrs. Thatcher and her ilk should remove themselves from the public spotlight before they embarrass themselves even further.
Scotty, Canada

To say that because Pinochet was head of state, therefore above prosecution, is ridiculous! He gave the orders, allowed the murders, and must be held responsible. If he had done a great service to humanity then he would be praised, and maybe receive an award, it must work both ways.
Su Carter, Australia

I have been to Chile. I have drove by Pinochet's ranch on the Maipo Valley. I tried talking to people there about him. They always either praised his accomplishments or changed the subject. All I saw was the fear in their eyes. Pinochet will never face charges much less stand a trial in Chile. The judge who is investigating the case will drag his feet until Pinochet's death. He must be extradited.
Ramon Tinio, USA

I think that Pinochet made the mistake of his life by getting caught in England he should have got himself caught in Italy, he would have been welcomed there and accommodated in luxurious villas just like his pal Ocalan! They seem to like murderers there! Soon every bullet fired by terrorists will have the tag MADE IN ITALY on it! I would call them designer terrorists, terrorize in style!
Nick Warren, UK

I really don't see any dilemma here, for Jack Straw or any one else. Pinochet has a case to answer at the very least, and there can be no hesitation as far as his extradition to Spain is concerned. The Chilean government's promise to charge him on more than fourteen counts is a blatant lie; not least because their constitution does not allow such a trial to take place in any event. If Jack Straw feels under pressure from Chilean threats to disrupt trade links with Britain, he should ask himself just how significant these trade links are, and whether the life of even one of the many thousands of 'missing' Chilean dissidents is as significant. The eyes of the world are on him and this government's moral integrity. It's as simple as that.
Simon Cochrane, Britain

Absolutely! It's time that tinpot dictators around the world learn that they can run but they can't hide. Mrs Thatcher and her ilk should bow out of the public spotlight before they embarrass themselves further.
J H Scott, Canada

Crimes against humanity transgress national borders and should be treated accordingly. It's not because you can't stop all the other (ex)dictators in the world, that you shouldn't stop those who venture beyond the safe borders of their own country. I was appaled to see the BBC camera team being attacked by a mob of extremist fanatics; rightists who benefited from Pinochet's bloody rule. It is a good indication of what would happen if Pinochet were allowed to go back to Chile: nothing at all, and certainly no justice for the thousands of people that were tortured, raped and murdered on his instigation and in his prisons and detention camps. Not only should Pinochet be extradited, he should spend the rest of his life in gaol under the same conditions he imposed on innocent victims in his own country.
Patrick Govaerts, Belgium

Yes, for the sake of all of Pinochet's victims justice should be done. If the Chilean government doesn't care about his murder of their people, then let the Spanish Courts try him instead.
Barry Tregear, UK

What most critics of the decision to extradite Pinochet seem to ignore is that he is being tried principally for crimes committed against citizens of Spain, the United Kingdom, and other European Union countries. Whether or not a foreign court should try him for crimes against his own citizens is incidental, and may even prove to become circumstantial, evidence. Under these circumstances, the English and Spanish courts have every right to hear and try General Pinochet for the crimes of which he has been accused.
A A Faraj, UK

Such dictators should not escape punishment for their crimes against humanity even after they are not in power. This decision for extradicting Pinochet should give a hard message to all other dictators that one day they will face the same fate . Earth punishment could be more convincing since those dictators mock religious warnings of punishment on the day after.
Nader Sulaiman, Syria

Would be justice against dictators who have committed genocide.
Ballerstaedt Esther, Mozambique

I agree with Carlos Slepoy. I would go further, it is an irreversible and ultimately correct step towards the prosecution of crimes against humanity. Let there be no haven on this earth that criminals can hide behind the thinly veiled excuse of "diplomatic immunity". It is an acknowledged fact that many diplomats abuse their privileges that the Diplomatic Immunity Act (or its equivalent around the world)confers and get off without even the threat of prosecution. Traffic offences, thefts, espionage, even sexual offences cannot be prosecuted if their respective governments do not agree to request and demand the offenders to waive their immunity. A slap on the wrists like transferring them out of the jurisdiction is often the action taken to avoid adverse publicity. Pinochet was a dictator and it is generally acknowledged that he was responsible for thousands of deaths and sufferring in his native Chile. Why should he be treated any differently from those Nazi war criminals? May you never be so high, the law is above you. So let the law have its day...and if he is innocent, let him go and if it the other way...let him face the punishment before he meets his Maker.
James Chin, Malaysia

Thanks, Britain, for arresting Pinochet. Now, don´t make us who believe in your justice, and the world, disappointed! Extradite him.
Ivar Sjögren, Sweden

It is almost unbelieable that the cause of justice has gone so far, eventhough we are facing one of more clear-cut cases of crimes against humanity of the second half of the century. Pinochet is responsible for the most barbaric atrocities commited against the chilean people, and yet bringing the dictator to justice has caught, most of us, by surprise. The victims of the dictator should not alone bear the burden of the transition to democracy in Chile. They have suffered the arrogance of the dictator and his followers long enough when perpetrators of the most despicable crimes have enjoyed normal lives. Extradite the dictator. This may persuade potential dictators to consider a change of careers.
Antonio Aragon, Canada

The best is a Chilean trial, but it´s impossible. So like the human rights are universal matter he should be extradited. Mr Straw you have the justice in your hands. Don't let Pinochet free, please.
Pedro Pérez, Chile

Mr. Pinochet should face the Justice of a democratic state like Spain to respond for his unprecedented crimes under all guarantees of a state of law - unlike what he has done to his poor victims. It's a duty towards History and Humanity. We beg the very Honorable Home Secretary Mr Straw to uphold without flinching the historical - indeed - decision of the House of Lords. It's very important to all of us. It's not a matter of punishing Pinochet - although he would very much deserve it - he only has to respond and accept his culpability. That's the least one can demand from him. And last but not least this would reinforce Chilean democracy which is already very solid.
Rammos Christos, Greece

This is a great opportunity Pinochet has to feel sorry of all the people he KILLED instead of going direct to hell. I wish all his supporters could be extradited too.
Rafael Martinez, Mexico

Age and ill health, should not be allowed to protect him. Neither should UK business interests. Extradition to Spain will send a clear warning to all such men as Pinochet, that in the global village, there is no hiding place.
John Griffiths, Zimbabwe

Pinochet was a dictator who killed thousands of people. He cannot be prosecuted here because he has granted himself immunity. He should be extradited to Spain and have the courage to face trial! All murderers in the world should know that one day they will pay for what they do!
Carlos Pozzi, Chile

Send him to Spain!!!!!!! Let him be tried there.
Rick O'Ryan, USA

Nobody should be above the law. A murder is a murder, whether it is done by a head of state (which Pinochet was not because he wasn't elected), a dictator (which Pinochet was), a bank robber, or a car driver. Nobody should be immune to it. He is being extradited (among others) for the murder of Spanish people, and Spain should protect its inhabitants everywhere in the world. His prosecution in Chile is difficult becuase the democratically elected government doesn't want to alienate its army. I really admire the British and Spanish governments for what they do! I wish they all did the same!
Karl Molotov, Switzerland

The man is a criminal. Send him to Spain. God bless those three Lords.
Max Bournelis, Canada

Pinochet must be held accountable for his crimes. For the thousands of Chileans within Chile and abroad justice is finally closer, if there is no justice there will be no peace. As a teacher in Chile, I had to leave my country, as I was personally harrased by the military dictatorship. My children had been deprived of growing close to grandmothers, oncles, aunts, cousins, etc. they will not forgive nor forget until justice is reached. Pinochet must pay for all his crimes, my children deserve it.
Luz Bascunan, Canada

A few small points about the posts in the 'No' section. Firstly, if 40% of Chileans support Pinochet, then 60% don't. Which as far as my understanding of maths goes can only be a majority in favour of his arrest. Second, how about all those commenting from the USA that the UK should 'butt out' (Pete Caneer) take a long hard look at their own country first? I fail to see any restraint in becoming involved in the sovriegnty of Cuba through the embargo, and any country who trades with her. THAT is the rule of power over justice. And of course, the way the USA allows Iraq to deal with its own affairs. In reply to Ray Griffin, the difference between Pinochet and Thatcher (although I'm no fan of hers) is that Pinochet had thousands of people who disagreed with his politics 'disappear,' while the Falklands war was fought over the invasion and suppresion of a community. Completely different examples of seperate events. Finally, to C. Burggraaf, the main reason for the failure to prosecute Saddam Hussien, Milosevic and Gadaffi is mainly due to the fact that they don't publiclly set foot in western countrys. If Saddam could be caught away from his guards, then he almost certainly would be prosecuted for crimes against humanity, as some of those responsible for the atrocities in the former Yugoslavia have been. Here's to extradition and a sentence to last out his years.
Matt White, UK

As a student of international law, I applaud this historic decision by House of Lords. Mr Pinochet should appreciate the fact that he had access to fair trial whereas thousands of innocent Chileans who perished under his rule didn't. I firmly believe that the long-term contribution of this judgement to the development of international legal norms outweighs the short-term diplomatic tension between Britain and Chile. Since the definition of crimes against humanity is narrowly defined (genocide, piracy, torture, slavery, war crimes), it is quite unlikely that the leaders of democratic countries become targets of arrest by some rogue states.
Yoshiaki Makino, Japan

I think that Pinochet should be extradited because nobody should be allowed to go unpunished or tried for their crimes. I do not however, agree with the way the issue is being handled in the UK. I understand that many European countries and the anti-Pinochet side want him to be extradited, but if he is then this will upset the Chileans. Surely, the way to get around all of any blame on the UK (no win situation) would be for England to pass the matter to the European Court to decide whether he should be extradited - this would be a collective decision and would be perhaps the most diplomatic situation.
David Langstaff, UK

Yes, the general should be extradicted. His trial will serve to deter others from engaging in official torture. The human right to be free from the fear of government-sponsored brutality must be supported. Whether one agrees with Mr Pinochet's political agenda or not, whether he is thought a saint or a demon, if he is shown to have violated human rights, and committed murder or genocide, he is a criminal. He deserves the protection of legal process his regime denied to thousands. If guilty, he deserves punishment.
L V Garcia, USA

The extradition of Pinochet preferably by an international court would be a highly symbolic step towards clearer international laws against genocides. Chileans should be happier if through this case they become instrumental in the advance of the international legal system. we have no other choice, we have become one global nation.
Fritz Penaranda, Philippines

What I find truly terrifying is the self professed "democrats" who seem to think that this monster should be released because they beleive that those he killed and tortured were "only" communists. Have we really learned so little of the crimes of the third reich? I need no revenge against Pinochet (but I sympathise with those who do), all I ask is that he be made to answer, from the dock, for his heinous crimes.
Rob Wheatley, UK

It is true that General Pinochet is a very old man. It is also understandable that some people consider the behaviour of the UK and Spain as interference, given their sterling historical track record. But, there is overwhelming evidence of General Pinochet's crimes against humanity. Among other things, he ruthlessly overthrew a democratically elected government, and systematically opressed his own countryfolks. It is essential for proper closure to have a proper trial. Not to try him and his cronies would send very wrong signals to other would-be strongmen. Any consideration of leniency should be contemplated only after a trial has concluded, and the guilt apportioned.. The UK should do the only right thing - either try him in the UK or extradite him to a country like Spain which will try him.
Shubho, India

Baroness Thatcher asks for him to be released on "humanitarian" grounds and William Hague echoes her. What humanity did Pinochet show? Nazi war criminals older than Pinochet have faced trial - why should he be different? Thatcher often talked about "the rule of law" - why should this not apply to Pinochet, who behaved like a barbarian?
Peter McCloskey, N Ireland

His son says the decision is fascist and political. How about his father? He is an ultra fascist and his motives were always political. He is an american berdugo whose only purpose is to kill all "communists" -- all those who are a threat to his position. We know him so well here in the Philippines because we always likened him to Marcos.
Rey Valeza, Philippines

Pinochet has so much support because he gave a lot to many Chileans. The spoils of corruption to his family and cronies. The delights of rape and plunder to his armed forces and security services. Criminal impunity to them all. No wonder Pinochet's supporters are so angry now. The idea that CRIME DOES NOT PAY is a direct threat for them.
Alejandro Solá, Chile

The charges against General Pinochet are serious and profoundly disturbing. No man is above the law. General Pinochet must be brought to justice for his crimes against humanity.
Tock Seen Chan, Malaysia

If he is not extradited he should stand trial in the UK.
Martin Curry, UK

Being a head of state should not be a license to kill. Sending Pinochet for trial in Spain may be the law of the strong, and it's true that it would not be applied to the rulers or former rulers of more powerful countries, like the US or UK. But it is a step in the right direction. Pinochet's backers should be pleased the former general is getting a trial at all - it is far more than any of his victims got.
Dave Hazzan, Canada

It is time to STOP impunitiy in our ocuntries. It is time to begin to take to court all those that use the power and authority conditions to do all kind of human rigths violations.
Jose Miguel De Angulo, Bolivia

No judge would dare to condemn him in Chile. When it comes to the military, ours is a bogus justice. There may be dozens of lawsuits, but all of them are doomed to the trashbin. The Spanish and UK Embassies have been harassed and foreign citizens have been threatened. No one in his/her sane mind would ever dream Pinochet stands a single chance to be found guilty of anything before Chilean courts. He benefits from a self-granted amnesty which covers 1973-1978 and he is presently a self-appointed senator for life meaning, he enjoys inmunity from prosecution according to Chilean laws. People who so lightly say this is a matter for Chilean people to judge are just ignorant of the facts. Otherwise, why did not the allies turn the Nazi bosses over to the German people for the German people to try them?
Javier Diaz, Chile

After Pinochet, I say let's go after Reagan, Thatcher, and the other allies of Pinochet. Pinochet overthrew a democratically elected government with the help of the USA. His government was never legitimate. May he be convicted, shamed, and locked away for the remainder of his life.
David Wilton, USA

This is a landmark judgement in the evolution of a global society that respects human rights. It helps to make the world a more just place after the 20th century's "age of dictators". It potentially shows a belief that human decency and dignity is a value to be placed far higher than the demands of selfish realpolitik and trade. This is not about 60's and 70's radicals acting out their fantasies or a rerun of cold war ideological debates-it's about eternal themes of truth and justice vs. corruption and personal "convenience".
Jim Watts, UK

I understand that the cases against Pinochet's extradition are all valid, but as long as he is a murderer and an evil man, there is no excuse to keep him out of Spanish or British courts.
Daniel Jackson, USA

There was no way that justice could be carried out in Chile. Look at what has happened to those who opposed him there. He still has too much power and influence for there to be a fair trial.
Antonio Scavetta, UK

This is a question of justice above all else. Pinochet is a mass murderer and a torturer It is time the innocent defenders of democracy who suffered at his hands were rewarded. The least they can expect and demand is that this fascist criminal faces trial.
Robert Robertson, UK

Britain has a chance to lead the way in reforming the treatment of human rights abuses. Jack Straw must not duck the issue.
Iain, UK

While on the one hand extradition of Pinochet could cause diplomatic embarrassment to the British government, many of the crimes alleged took place before he became the self-delared head of state. Commercial consierations should not enter into the argument.
Tony Thompson, Canada

More Important then Pinochet himself is the precedent this sets that can be used on other violaters of human rights such as Gov. of Texas George Bush Jr. who takes pride in the fact he has had over 160 people executed. This could put him on trial for his crimes and I hope there is a nation that wishes to do so.
Trevor Morris, Canada

The applicable saying in this case is that the General be given a fair trial and then shot. I should have thought the lessons of 1933-45 were more than clear, that the only good fascist is a dead one. There is nowhere on this planet where anti-communism has not been an extremely convenient anteroom to the imposition of the most bloodthirsty reign of terror on the population in the interests of the moneybags. Or has something passed me by in this century?
Sam MacLean, Canada

Without a doubt Pinochet should be extradited to Spain. We are called a 'civilised' country, but how can this be if we allow a man who has committed crimes against humanity to the degree that Pinochet has to go free without proper trial?
Kate Miller, UK

This is a unique opportunity for the international rule of law which should not be missed. It is not that Pinochet should be put into jail - he probably is too old and sick for that. But as long as he can face his victims, he should be put to trial and forced to see them before his eye.
Andreas L Paulus, Germany

Question: should murderers be tried for their crimes? If so, then Pinochet should be called to account for his crimes!
Paul Twigg, UK

I voted yes, not because I'm blinded by a passionate advocacy for or against Pinochet. I do so because I believe that everyone rights should be respected regardless of their political affiliation or philosophical thinking. I believe that if you prosecute, torture and exterminate a group of people or a single individual, you should be judged for it. Everyone that makes a comment should look within their own moral foundation for an answer to this question, and let your own desire to be treated fairly and justly answer for you. Must we keep reminding people that saving a life does NOT give you that right to take another. Crimes should be judge on their own merits and mitigating factor should only play a role during sentencing. I say all of these without letting my personal opinion cloud my judgment and, giving Mr Pinochet the rights he never gave many people.
Roy F Morales, USA

Leaders and others have to know that they can be held responsible for crimes against humanity and genocide, everywhere and always. Justice for the victims of the terrible Pinochet regime overrides considerations about the health an old man. Have people already forgotten what Pinochet did to his people? Torture, murder, political oppression.
Nikolas Matthes, USA

Yes, he should be extradicted and at least go to trial for what he has been accused of. It doesn't matter if he is seen to have 'saved' Chile (economically) and it doesn't matter if he is old and unwell and it shouldn't matter about the consequential diplomatic nightmares. It's important not to lose sight of what this person has been accused of. The point is, it should have happened years ago. What scares me most is to think that such persons as the indicted War Criminals of the Bosnian conflict, may also never be brought to trial and instead will predictably enjoy immunity and diplomatic protection until they are old and grey and sick. Life stands still for those who are still waiting to know what happened to their loved ones and the pain and frustration of knowing that the one(s) responsible will never be (at least) brought to trial should not also be over-looked.
Charlotte Dunn, Bosnia-Hercegovina

Britain should not be a sanctuary for former dictators. We owe it to the memory of the thousands of innocent people who were tortured and murdered under Pinochet's regime to see that justice is finally done. Nor do we need lessons in compassion from Margaret Thatcher, who was a great friend of right-wing dictators during her own 11-year-long regime. She had no compassion for the poor and suffering in her own country, let alone Chile!
Timothy Huw Davies, UK

For more than 25 years the pain of that blow (golpe) to justice and humanity stayed with many of us chileans. The memories of friends lost, of a peaceful country invaded by an oppresive army of occupation and the sense of impotence because of the dictatorship. After the years of fear and pain the news from London are a salve to the soul. Justice, justice what sweet name, what concept. Extradite him to liberate us. Spain, Italy, France, Sweden, the US and everywhere else. Chilean justice is held hostage by self-serving immunity agreements. Chile will be healed after he is judged by the whole world, full reconciliation will arrive after the truth makes us free.
Leonardo, USA

Its time a stand was made against abusers of human rights like PInochet. This will send a clear signal to other dictators around the world that this behaviour will no longer be tolerated. He has clearly broken international law and it is therefore up to countries like Britain and Spain to make a stand on behalf of his victims and their families.
Richard Boardman, UK

Pinochet came to power assisted by the U.S. because the U.S. was adverse to a popular movement by the people of Chile. America has a history of this sort. Tony Blair is just like Bill Clinton and all the other useless capitalists that have served as US presidents. Do what is right and extradite Pinochet.
Charles F McLure, USA

Of course he should be extradited, or brought to trial in this country. He has shown contempt for his victims and International law. The violent reaction of his supporters is borne of fear; fear that their part in the murder of thousands will also be exposed. Jack Straw has said he will respect the wisdom of the law lords - he should do so. To allow him to go home would shame the UK and be political suicide for Straw. To his supporters contributing to this debate - wash that blood off your hands before you dirty your keypad.
Chris Welch, UK

I think this is a step forwards in the history of humanity. I think he should be extradited and judged for the crimes he committed against his own people. This can be the initiation of a way forward on international law for controlling crimes against humanity committed by powerful leaders against their own people. I hope that in future generations it will be developed to include also other devastating abuses, such as the enormous and common use of stealing from the country's funds and then leaving the country with devastating debts for the people to pay them back.
Cecilia Bartlett, UK

General Pinochet was nothing more than a murderous dictator who personally ordered the killing of thousands. If we don't extradite him now, we wouldn't have done the same for Hitler.
Colin Lea, UK

Crimes once committed are always crimes in the eyes of the law. Time does not and cannot diminish a crime. Justice demands that. Otherwise why is the world still hunting down the holocaust offenders. Will someone please tell Maggie Thatcher to shut up? With her support for Pinochet, she is a disgrace to the British nation.
Rahman, Bangladesh

Behold the new world order. A minor functionary in one country can wield the law in a second country to bring to justice a former ruler of a third country charged with murder in that third country. Let the world's autocrats and dictators take note. Also the leaders of the West, past and present, should examine their consciences too.
Jason Brown, UK

Yes I think Pinochet should be extradited to Spain. This is an important principle of International Law, which should be beyond short term political considerations.
Trevor McKenna-Williams, UK




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