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Wednesday, 26 June, 2002, 09:42 GMT 10:42 UK
Is Britain a racist country?
Britain's chief criminal prosecutor has described most Britons as racist with a culture of "institutionalised racism".
Director of public prosecutions Sir David Calvert-Smith says he believes prejudice is so widespread it can be found by just watching a couple of hours of television or reading a newspaper. Sir David's comments reinforce the findings of a BBC News Online survey which found that more than half of Britons believe they live in a racist society. The ICM study showed that racism in the workplace is a major problem - with almost one in three blacks and Asians saying they believe racism has cost them the chance of a job. But it does goes on to suggest that most whites, blacks and Asians agree society is more racially tolerant than a decade ago. Is Britain a racist country? Have you experienced racism? This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
Your reaction
I'm a French pupil in a Franco-German school. German pupils are very different from us. In the morning, when they have a snack, they eat salty things: ham, sausages, cheese and cucumber. Having a bilingual school is a good thing because we can learn from other people. For example, during the war we were enemies but now we have become friends.
Matt , Saudi Arabia Our society is racist, and I mean every member, not just whites. Whites look for failings of ethnic minorities, the same ethnic minorities are looking for discrimination and prejudice against them; of course they will find it. I can find discrimination against me for my height and hair colour if I looked for it hard enough. Labelling racism as something that only white people feel is simply ignorant, and so long as racism amongst blacks and Asians is ignored, whites will become more racist, as they are now also discriminated against, but they don't have anyone to champion that cause.
There are still many racist people in Britain. The difference these days is that they are more subtle than they used to be. Rather than out and out racial abuse they say things like 'political correctness gone mad', 'flood of asylum seekers' and 'multi-culturalism has failed'. As if our national anthem or Royal Family are under threat of extinction because some Kurds have moved in next door!
DF, UK
Britain is not racist. People tend to remember the 'racist' incidents but not the countless times when absolutely nothing happened at all. Please don't label a whole country because of a minority of bad apples.
Friday 21 June, a middle class suburb of Birmingham, where myself and my friend have lived for all our 26 years. He was refused entry to the pub I am in because he is black. The white female bouncer who refused him entry was certainly racist.
In Zimbabwe at the moment whites are thrown off their land for being a different skin colour, in India a train gets set on fire because they are a different religion. I could go on for a long time. The UK has some little problems but we don't stop people carrying out their livelihoods, friendships or even keep their life because they are a different colour. This is beginning to get VERY boring now, and if you misuse the word racism you might find out that people in the UK start not to care about it; and start voting in the sort of parties that really will cause hatred in the UK.
Bilal Patel, London
Sir David Calvert-Smith like MacPherson before him has shown gross ignorance of what the term "institutionalised racism" actually means. An organisation (or society) is only institutionally racist if its policies and procedures systematically discriminate between people on the grounds of race. An organisation (or society) is not institutionally racist is it has a racist working for it (or living in it). This may be pedantry but the corruption of an already well defined term annoys me!
Last time I was in London, 1993 winter at McDonald's in Trafalgar Square, I was shocked to see all the cashiers are whites and the floor mopping workers and those who clean the restrooms were of African background. I didn't see any Africans or people with black skin colour working as cashiers. I feel bad for those people who live in the UK than the States.
Frankly I don't even think about being racist or about racism at all until the topic is rammed down my throat. Will this country stop obsessing about a problem that really doesn't exist?
I was shocked by how openly some people in Britain make offensive remarks regarding black or Asian people. In most other countries people tend to keep their opinions to themselves unless provoked.
Tell a country that they are seen as racist and what impression do you think they will get? People will see it everywhere they look. Is racism the only explanation for the problems? Or is it a nice easy answer? If you look for racism, you will always find it,
Jon Livesey, USA
It is more acceptable to be a proud Englishman living in the USA than it was living in the UK. I can fly my flag and discuss any aspect of Englishness openly, it does not offend anyone. In the UK it may even be considered racist to enjoy your own culture and history yet in Wales, Scotland and Ireland culture and nationalism is openly encouraged.
Robin Chakraborty, England
Amit, UK (ex-Indian, ex-USA),
Of course the British (Asians, blacks and whites) are racist, the same as people all over the world. Accept it and move on, learn to live with it.
I was born and bred in the UK. Prior to joining the emergency service that I work for I experienced racism regularly, but the level of racism within the professional service is quite dangerous. Levels of care given to the public are often compromised due to obvious racial differences. The complete story is too long to tell here, but Britain is a racist society and for the emergency services to be the same just shows the degree of racism quite prevalent here in the UK and how dangerous the situation is.
Simone, Washington, DC -USA
There is racism in our country, but I believe the UK is the most tolerant country in Europe. Many of our sports heroes are black and most Brits are proud of them.
Have you ever imagined how embarrassed the Japanese would be by watching the stupid TV programme Banzai?
I'm Indian. I've been in the UK for a total of a year and a half, and I've been in the US for a total of three years. During my time in the UK, I was constantly aware that I was an outsider, whether it was on the street, in a pub, or even in a departmental store. I'd say I experienced racial slights or insults a total of perhaps a thirty times. In contrast, I have felt as much at home in the US as in India, and have never experienced what I've called a racial slight. You've got to conclude that it's something like an institutionalized thing in England, and not something that comes from English people themselves.
Simon, England
Simon, your attitude smacks greatly of "Because they do it, why can't we?" Quite simply: because it's wrong.
It is true that people from ethnic minorities can be prejudiced towards white people in the UK and indeed globally. The difference is that theirs is more often than not, a belief of mistrust, not inferiority. Theirs is a belief based on centuries of slavery and colonialism that in the terms of history, is fresh on the mind.
And yet even this prejudice, although understandable, is still no less wrong.
Britain claims to be a world power and a world leader.
So why not lead? And why not do it by example?
At least here in Britain there is a concern among the people if their society is a racist one. No other country cares about all those issues. I have lived in many countries, and I am sure that Britain is the best country for the immigrants. This is the country where people can preserve their own culture, how they like. I have not faced any racist incident personally. However, I am ready to over look a few even if I come across them. Attitude is more important.
Jean, UK
I am a white UK male and while I was at university in England, I met the woman of my dreams. We were together for a year or so but had to break up due to pressure from her family and culture. She was an English-born Asian girl. Yes there is racism and no it's not as obvious as everyone first thinks it is.
Having married a French person and living in France I can definitely say that the English media is racist beyond belief in its treatment and stereotyping of other European nationals. It takes such obsessive delight in "slagging off", or showing other European countries in a bad light, it's actually embarrassing. With biased reporting of foreign affairs how do you expect Mr Smith in the street to form valid, unracist opinions?
Steve, UK
Racism does not only apply to the white population. Ethnic minority groups can also be very racist towards whites. Everyone should learn to be more open to different cultures in this country.
I feel every country has some degree of racism. When we are faced with different social behaviours and structures that are not our own we start to feel that our own culture and race is better. This is a humanistic way of thinking so we can feel better about ourselves. Great Britain is a great country. I have never been faced with racism while visiting.
Sonny, UK
Sonny, you're not the only one. I'm Irish and my whole family were also subject to racist abuse over the years, living as the lone white family in an Asian and black dominated area.
Of course Britain has its racist element. But it is not alone. Every country has racism and every country will always have it in some form. Therefore, what we should gauge is the level of racism that exists and in Britain. This is at a very low level compared to the vast majority of countries around the world. This is an extremely tolerant land and so it should be. All races should be made welcome in this country.
As a 36-year-old Londoner born of Portuguese parents, I have always felt most comfortable in areas with an ethnic mix. However, over the past 10 years I feel like a stranger in my own city. London has become saturated with so many different ethnic groups that English is no longer the dominant culture. I think this pleases no one and will lead to problems in the future.
It is interesting that some people say that they have experienced much racism whilst living in the UK, whilst others have experienced none. Perhaps this tells us more about the attitude of the individuals rather than the attitude of the British nation.
Britons, like all other European citizens, must understand that this is now a global economy and society. The age of information, expedient and low cost travel, force us all to be more informed on the cultures we are interacting with. The words "tolerance" and "sensitivity" are terms of the past. By now we should all realise that multiculturalism is the only way that any nation will be able to gain economic strength.
Marc, UK
Sadly, I would have to say yes. The first time I was in Britain in 1999, I caught a taxi from Heathrow airport and in our easy conversation the taxi driver informed he was Jewish. I was shocked and saddened therefore when passing a building where several people of colour were queuing outside he referred to them as "chocolate drops" and how they should get on the "banana boat" and go "home". I have never encountered this level of open racism before.
Having lived in the UK for three years, I have not experienced racism myself, yet I know it exists. Comparing to North America, I think Britain and Europe as a whole are less tolerant of ethnic minorities and immigrants. The reason why America's economy performs so much better than Europe is because it tries to tap every brain to its land. Some 40% of IT experts in Silicon Valley are Asians. If Britain and Europe want to maintain their competitiveness in the long run, then they must keep an open mind about immigrants.
C Leung, UK Britain has become an intolerant society. If racism is another term for that intolerance, then yes we have. The cause is not a single identifiable factor, but it is often the result of resentment and jealousy. Why immigrants have the best houses, jobs or lifestyles is not understood. Among those I have spent a lifetime working with, they are kind, generous and willing to become part of British society. Why we resent the immigrant, or the born in the UK Asian or black resident is a complete mystery to me. Certainly we need tighter controls on immigration, but that should reflect on the government of the day, not on the racial minority
Most people are racist or prejudiced to a greater or lesser degree. The real issue is how we let our views of other races affect our judgements and how we treat them. It seems to be a natural animal instinct to be wary of all that is different to oneself.
My wife is Korean and in London she has never, to her knowledge experienced racism. However outside of the London area and especially in the north she has sometimes been subjected to direct insults in relation to her Asian background, or to a silly sense of mockery that is supposed to be humour.
John Kirk, UK
Ask my brother and his family who arrived from Zimbabwe last year about racism in England. It is not just reserved for people who are black, but for anyone who is perceived to be a threat. They went to England to escape the regime in Zimbabwe and to give their children a better life and are constantly told to go back where they came from. This is despite the fact that my brother is British, having been born when Zimbabwe was Rhodesia and a colony.
I was born and bred in Birmingham and in my 20 years of life had not experienced any form of racism except quite recently, when at university a child made a racist remark. I was saddened, not at the child, but at what he had been subjected to that led him to make such a comment.
My girlfriend was born in France and her father is black and her mother is white. The poor girl can't win. In France she's black, in Africa she's white and in the UK she's French!
Jeff Ling, USA
The point that people often neglect to mention is that immigration boosts the economy. My parents came to the UK from the West Indies in the '60s and worked every day until their respective retirement ages, paying national insurance, tax etc. Furthermore, it's common knowledge that the UK has an ageing population so without further immigration our economy, prosperity and way of life will be in jeopardy within 30 years.
I grew up in rural Somerset in the late 40s and 50s. The first time I saw a coloured face was at boarding school. Looking back, I don't think anyone at the school even thought about it. We were all friends if we were of the same age group. I remember desperately hoping that a friend from Tobago would ask me to go and stay in the summer holidays. Never happened unfortunately. I cannot say whether Britain is racist, some people are, no doubt about that. But many are not. I do though feel that those who come here should make some effort to integrate themselves into our society by learning the language and so on.
I have lived in SE Asia most of my life and have been living in London for the last seven years. I have not lived elsewhere in the UK. My experience in London is very positive and I find people in Britain not racist at all. Of course there may be some exceptions. If you want to know what racism is, try Hong Kong for starters!!! That'll open your eyes to real racism.
It's sad that the English are not allowed to embrace their culture without being accused of racist behaviour.
Paul B, Oxfordshire, UK
As a teacher I have seen plenty of fiery racism among pupils and most of it is between feuding non-white groups of differing tribes/sects
Having being born and bred in Britain for 22 years of my life, hand on heart, I think it's a brilliant place to live. I have experienced racism in Britain, but it is only a small minority of the population. Nevertheless, I think all minorities should make an effort to 'blend in' more and make a real effort to know their neighbours.
For the last five years I have gone back to my roots in Hong Kong. The small country has a very cosmopolitan mix. Unfortunately I see more racism here in Hong Kong than during all my years in Britain.
Name me one country on the planet that doesn't have people who harbour resentment towards others because of race, religion, gender, creed or sexual orientation. Such a country doesn't exist. Wake up people - we live in an imperfect world.
On the whole we are not racist. Only a small minority of people are, on both sides of the fence. What is strange is that these people seem to get all the coverage. What about the 90% of people who get on with neighbours of different colour? The media never mentions these and the right wing groups certainly don't.
Other cultures can mix with ours and it enriches and modernises our society. There is a level of tolerance in society especially when it comes to immigrants who the British public have to pay for. Some, especially the older generation would say that we fought a war to protect our culture and when it is demolished by large minorities of other ethnic backgrounds it is then that people become less tolerant. I do not consider myself to be racist but I do agree that Britain is a small country and in order to keep stability within the economy we cannot afford to let these people through.
The bottom line is that people generally only tend to mix with others that are very much like themselves and will always find some way of differentiating themselves from 'the rest' never mind skin colour, creed, class, political persuasion and nationality etc. You could put 30 working class white 20-something Londoners together in a room and you can bet they'll divide themselves up along the lines of neighbourhood, football clubs supported, musical taste etc and will discriminate against the others. A system for social inclusion and exclusion will always arise in any situation. Therefore, attempts at racial integration are likely to continue to be fruitless. Only perhaps the strongest individuals can exist without the need to gravitate towards 'their own'. The best one can ask for is tolerance. In this respect I don't think the UK is any worse than most other countries and is definitely better than many.
Mark McGrath, UK
I don't think it is fair to say that Britain is a racist country but unfortunately there are small minorities in the UK that are racist. I was lucky enough to go to a school where all races, religions, backgrounds and countries were represented and I think that it made me a more rounded individual compared to friends who went to schools that were predominantly white with small ethnic minorities. I am proud to have many friends from a variety of backgrounds and races and we are all proud to be British. I like to think that the younger generation is more tolerant than the last and that this trend will continue and that one day Britain will be a truly multi-cultural society.
Three of my grandparents came to England in the 1920s from Europe, and as a result were saved from European massacre of the Jews in the 1930s and 1940s. My father's father was the only survivor from his family.
Both my parents were born in England, and I was born and raised there. Nevertheless, as an adult I never felt that I was an integral part of British society. Throughout my childhood I lived in fear of anti-Semitic attacks, was subject to comments and occasional physical abuse by "English" children. The physical abuse ceased at university (Cambridge), but the comments continued. At the age of 22 I immigrated to Israel, where, with all its problems, I feel at home. Britain was a nice, fun place to grow up, and compared to Israel it was quite peaceful, but you can forget your ideal of the integrated society: the scorn the British feel for "outsiders" is deep-rooted, and I am very pleased that my children do not have to experience it. I am happy to see them grow up in a society where they are not "outsiders".
I am married to a white woman from Eastern Europe, who holds down two jobs, who has never claimed a penny off the state, and who speaks English better than most British people I know. Luckily, she has never met with a single instance of direct racism, and she regards Britain as a friendly and tolerant country. And yet, the number of friends of my wife and me who've made racist comments to me concerning blacks and Asians is astonishing. In my experience, racism in Britain is not against 'foreigners' as such, it's against those of different colour.
I am a strong believer in confronting and fighting fascism especially racism. From my knowledge and understanding it is one of the most corrupting factors of any society in the world. If you can't see your fellow human beings equally without labels or a superiority complex then you don't deserve any respect. I also believe the only means or way forward for the human race is to stamp out such ignorance (which we obviously would like but can't expect in the next few years.) On the note of ignorance, I believe people who ignore these serious issues are as guilty as the right-wing idiots who keep it thriving. Britain is not the worst country, but as a democratic society it allows such poisons to infect it.
Anon, UK
Is Britain a racist country? Yes, of course it is but you'll never get anyone to admit it because the racism I'm talking about is against English people. Take for instance the case of students at Warwick university being told to take down the flag of St George (their national flag which they had put up in support of their national football team) in their own country as it may upset foreign students (who had incidentally put up their countries flags.) If you can't show support for your own country in your own country then something is very wrong!
I have experienced a lot of racism in Britain. I'm one of only a few white people living in a multi-ethnic part of London and am often on the receiving end of comments regarding the colour of my skin and my religion. However, the press don't care because I am not perceived as a victim to whom a debt is owed. Disgraceful!
Christopher Pratley, England
There is nothing racist about wanting to live in a mono-culture. Wanting to live with people from the same culture (who I understand and trust) does NOT mean I regard others as beneath me. I believe that everyone is equal regardless of religion or race. However, I don't believe that some religions / races can live together peacefully. Finally, if the whole world was multicultural it would be a disaster: imagine visiting some ancient tribe in the Asian rainforests, only to find their village half-populated with Europeans wearing Nike trainers and playing hip hop.
We've still got a long way to go but I can remember when race relations legislation was opposed on civil liberties grounds. Remember Keith Relf insisting on his right to sell his house to an "English family"? We've come a long way from that. A disturbing trend over the last few years has anti-English racism in Scotland and Wales. At the moment it seems to be mostly confined to the terraces at football matches but let's remember that Serb/Croat animosity started at a football match.
For your info, Mr Moore, I have found the level of animosity (especially in London, of all places) towards Welsh people startling.
I can't speak for Scotland, but in my experience this idea that the Welsh are bitterly anti-English just doesn't add up. Where in the Welsh media do you have this casual, institutionalised denigration of another nationality? Why is nearly 30% of the population of Wales English in origin, if we are so intolerant?
Every country has its idiots. I do not blame English people as a whole for any unpleasantness I may have experienced; why should my nation be tarred for the bigotry of a small minority of its citizens?
Jean-Pierre Harrison, USA
I love beautiful people and I do not mind what they look like!
Of course we are mostly racist - it's called ancestry. Three million years of evolution has taught us to be protective of our own blood groups.
I come from an (Irish) immigrant family.
Is Britain a racist society? Yes.
Are most British people racist? No.
The time when I felt most proud being British was seeing a black guy walk through Amsterdam wearing a Great Britain Rugby shirt. Seeing that made me feel very proud to be British.
British media seems to be dominated by the liberal left and consequently minority groups always get excessive exposure. The dominance of white people is completely understated. The truth is Britain is 90% white - only in London and some other big cities is it truly multicultural. We should appreciate our recent arrivals but not insist on them presenting the news on TV or standing for public office.
I don't think it is particularly helpful to label a whole country as racist. Some individuals within Britain are racist, and some institutions may be racist. It is not possible to generalise about Britain as a whole from these facts.
The question is not is Britain racist but how racist. Is it relevant that we're less racist than France for example?
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