Has the railways' image been irreparably damaged?

The image of rail travel has been so badly damaged by the chaos following the Hatfield crash that it could be years before many passengers will return.

The study compiled for Railtrack and rail operators says it could take up to five years to win back passengers, while some will desert the railways for good.

But Philip Benham from ATOC which represents the train companies, thinks the report has exaggerated the problem.

Is this the case? Will the railways image ever be repaired? Have you given up travelling on trains for good?

This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.

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Your reaction

Simply refunding passenger's ticket price does not begin to address the compensation issue

Martin, England

No, the image of the railway system hasn't been damaged. However the reputation of Railtrack has been damaged - irreparably, in my view. If ANY dividend is paid to shareholders instead of going towards funding the repair of the rail system, it will be a travesty of justice. The TOCs should sue Railtrack (and the Government who failed to invest in BR days) for loss of their earnings. They should then pass most of the money on to the passengers who have been affected, to compensate them at a realistic level. !

Every morning and every evening I have to endure journeys on old, dirty, stuffy, overcrowded trains, which are late almost every day - I cannot remember the last time I arrived into London on time! The only alternative is the road which is prohibitively expensive now due to high taxation - how about sorting out the trains first?
Neil, UK

The road is not a sensible alternative

Chris Klein, UK

I travel to London by train daily; the road is not a sensible alternative. The poor publicity has been unhelpful for Snailtrack. However, given the number and frequency of road casualties, the media coverage given to the railways seems to be unfair. I would like to see a return to a more vertically integrated ownership structure similar in principle to the old "Big Four" companies that existed before nationalisation in 1948. This would help to eliminate the "passing the buck" culture, which is one of the most damaging aspects of the railway's current image.
Chris Klein, UK

I am intrigued that we now have a privatised rail network that is costing the taxpayer more in direct subsidies than when it was state-run, but which employs fewer people, has higher prices, slower and dirtier trains, totally chaotic ticketing and certainly a worse image. On the bright side a number of companies are making a lot of money out of it. Am I alone in seeing this as almost a transparent movement of public money into private purses with a poor railway in the middle?
RAB, UK

Every morning when I arrive at London Waterloo on my way to work the guard always announces "Thankyou for travelling with South West Trains". I wish I could tell him that if I had had any other realistic options I certainly wouldn't have done so. To think that we are effectively forced to pay to travel in conditions that a veal calf would complain about is incredible. So much for Phoney Tony's babbling about investment.
Karl Peters, UK

Britain is the backward and poor nation in Europe and this is symbolised by its rail system

Alonzo, UK

Recently I travelled to Italy and The Czech Republic. The British, in their typical and unwavering arrogance would consider these two countries inferior to theirs, yet the trains in this 'poor, former eastern-block country' and that 'backward and chaotic Mediterranean land' are reliable, clean and economical. Britain is the backward and poor nation in Europe and this is symbolised by its rail system. And slavishly paying whatever ridiculous prices we are asked for this abusive service shows exactly what losers we really are.
Alonzo, UK

What will those who have deserted the railways do? Presumably, take to cars and 'enjoy' sitting in static or slow moving traffic jams of indeterminate length while at the same time significantly increasing their chances of death in an accident (10 deaths per day everyday). Still it will give me more peaceful rail journeys until they all realise that at present, there is no hassle free way and far more dangerous ways of moving around in the UK.
Luke, UK

No, railways are here to stay! When my friends and I speak about going to Europe, we couldn't imagine travelling any other way. Accidents happen. It's a sad fact. The important thing is that you learn what went wrong, where the blame lies and try to fix it so it doesn't happen again. More people die in swimming pools than in train wrecks, yet swimming pools are here to stay!
Ryan, USA

Expensive, late, overcrowded trains that always seemed to be cold

B. Maguire, UK

About 10 years ago I used to commute from Birmingham to Liverpool every day by train and it was horrible. Expensive, late, overcrowded trains that always seemed to be cold. Then I bought a car and forgot about trains for many years. Over the last year I haven't had a car and have been forced once again to use the trains. What a shock! They were bad 10 years ago, but they are absolutely chronic now.
B. Maguire, UK

Isn't it about time that John Prescott was sacked?
Joe, London, UK

Despite the current panic atmosphere, as a regular long-distance traveller, I've found no more delays over the last few months than at any other time. What is, however, very clear, is that information on services is failling to get through to platform staff, and that platform staff are less well informed of alternative routes than they once were, so when problems inevitably occur, it takes more ingenuity to minimise the delay to one's journey. The biggest delays I've experienced recently have been failed trains, which could easily be reduced by double-heading freight trains, especially on critical routes like the west coast line.
Terence Johnson, UK

Like many thousands of others, I work in central London and am effectively tied to the bad joke that currently passes for our rail network. The major problem is chronic underfunding over decades, which was made worse by privatisation because of the need to put profit and shareholders first. If this, or any, Government is serious about getting people on to public transport there needs to be substantial and ongoing investment of public money, to both build a decent infrastructure and subsidise fares to an affordable level for all.
Julia Bowen, UK

Try living in a country where mass transit (bus, subway, and rail) is avoided like the plague by people who complain long and loud about highway congestion in large urban centres. You will learn to appreciate a 30-minute rail commute compared to 90 minutes in a car or transit bus.
Steve Callaghan, Canada

For the last nine years I have commuted by rail for about thirty weeks in each year between Lancaster and Reading. I have heard the talk of the demoralised staff and they have told me of their miserable wages and fear that union membership might worsen not ameliorate their position.

Contrast this image of decay with the train from Alicante to Madrid for example. I am told that if the train is more than seven minutes late, passengers - please note "customers" - get their money back. But this is in "backward" Spain which, like most of the core nations of the EU, has failed to liberalise and deregulate its economy as Gordon Brown wishes. His aim is that these nations resemble the US which is renowned for the poverty of its rail system.

The reason for the collapse of the railways is not hard to identify. The neo-liberal doctrines of privatisation and fat-cat enrichment pursued by Thatcher and her New Labour progeny are directly to blame. Unpalatable as it may be to New Labour, the obvious course is to admit the failure of neo-liberal policies to provide the population with efficient public transport and public services and renationalise the railways.
Dr Kevin J. Brehony, UK

Britons put up with an appalling level of service

Matt Trainer, Belgium

Having worked in Belgium for six months now and used its excellent rail network on a regular basis, I can safely say that Britons put up with an appalling level of service. I still can't get used to the fact that I can go to the station here and the correct train will appear bang on time. Furthermore, when travelling you don't have to build in a several hour "disaster buffer" by assuming that your trip will take much longer that it's supposed to. Rail travel in the UK was unpleasant enough at the best of times; in light of the last few months, it's hard to see how recovery can be anything but long-term.
Matt Trainer, Belgium

Yes, Railtrack are irresponsible and incompetent. However, the staff on board the trains tend to deal with a bad situation well. Once the tracks are open as normal, it'll still be the best and most pleasant way of travelling from London to Liverpool. Though something MUST be done about ticket prices, and the extortion that is the buffet car.
Rick Webber, UK

Railtrack's approach to this survey is typical of the PR-led management garbage that's rotting away in most of the UK's industries. It's not the "image of the product (i.e. railways)" or the "confidence of the consumer" that needs to be tackled - we just want a railway that WORKS!
Richard, UK

Pretending a problem doesn't exist won't make it disappear

Colin Wright, UK

I have voted with my feet, and moved so I will not be returning to the railways. What is needed is massive investment in the railways and a total reorganisation. The ATOC spokesman should realise that pretending a problem doesn't exist won't make it disappear.
Colin Wright, UK

Lets face it, the only reasons the Conservative Government sold off the railways was to get revenue for a short fix tax cut as a bribe to the electorate and so that the Government would not have to foot the bill for the capital investment they already knew was needed in the railway infrastructure. We saw a the same thing when they sold off the water industry, since when we have seen increasing water charges and no real improvement in services.
Trevor Crichton, UK

You should try Sweden. Here you can set your clocks by the things. I can't imagine Britain ever getting that good. I don't miss Railtrack for a minute.
Alex Banks, Wales (Living in Sweden)

My Grandmother often tells me that during the war, trains services were far more reliable. And today, in the twenty-first century, the rail networks are an embarrassing joke. With one of the highest tax burdens in the world and a crippling cost of living, made more painful by a lack of public services, Britain has become the sick man of Europe. I cannot believe the train companies dared to raise fares above the rate of inflation. If this Government had any backbone, they would intervene and punish these greedy individuals who run the farce that is our national rail service
Mick Deal, UK

Rail passengers are behaving irrationally. The switch of rail passengers to road because of safety fears after Hatfield shows the continued ignorance of travel accident risk of travellers. To switch to rail makes sense on some grounds but not safety. More travellers by car and coach means, more traffic accidents, deaths and congestion.
Mike Leary, UK

All I ever wanted was to be provided with the service they were advertising

Lee, UK

I will NEVER use the trains again! After years of waiting on platforms and listening to the multitude of pathetic excuses for cancellations and delays I have decided to call it a day. What has made it easier is the fact that I have now been given flexi-time at work which allows me to leave at 5.30am in the morning whilst the roads are quiet and return home at 3.00pm when the roads are still relatively quiet.

I don't know the amount of times I complained to the various rail authorities and never got a decent reply. All they ever do is give you a paltry amount of compensation and in some cases you don't even get that. Each time I complained I never asked for money. All I ever wanted was to be provided with the service they were advertising.
Lee, UK

So we should trust Railtrack's track record on improvements and bear with them? Their track record is a history of derailments. It's a company of unimaginative middle managers with little skill or vision. Bit like our government.
Martin Bentley, U.K

The only way to really encourage people out of their cars and onto public transport is to make it the cheaper option. Anything greater than 8p per mile is more expensive and not an alternative. I will always use my car until trains are an affordable option.
Carl, UK

I wasn't aware the trains ever had a reputation to damage. The other day I stood on a station platform waiting for my wife. According to the figures I could expect "six trains per hour". After 40 minutes no trains had arrived. It was cold, the waiting room was locked and there was no shelter available anywhere. If driving to work were a realistic proposition I would be off the railways in an instant.
John B, UK

To turn the railways around will take time

John Harris, U.K.

For many years the railways were left under-funded, this was increasingly the case under the 18 years of Conservative rule, where there was an anti-rail transport policy. If one does not maintain such a large system, then eventually it breaks down. What puzzles me is how people are so short-sighted, John Major was re-elected and his stated aim was to privatise our rail system. He did and now it is a shambles. We voted for it, we got it now we are moaning about how bad it is. Labour to their credit are having to pick up the pieces and put in a long term plan, this is not something akin to turning a super-tanker, to turn the railways around will take time. At the same time the roads will get more congested. People have short memories, they will come back to the railways.
John Harris, U.K.

It's interesting to consider "Snailtrack`s" image when you consider that they promise that services will be "back to normal" soon. Obviously their view of 'normal' is considerably better than ours.
Gary Dale, England

As long as I can remember the railways have had a dreadful record for punctuality and been unpleasant to use

John Harrison, UK

As long as I can remember the railways have had a dreadful record for punctuality and been unpleasant to use. They were Government owned and run for a hundred years. Only privatisation, although not perfect, got some investment into the railways and things started getting better.
John Harrison, UK

I'm a Tory, but the last Tory government made a huge error of judgement by fragmenting and privatising the railways.
Our rail network needs HUGE investment to make it into an integrated, cheap, safe, reliable transport system, but I guess this will only happen when those in authority come out of their "ivory jags" and see sense, in the real world. An Integrated transport system; buses timetables connecting with trams and high speed trains, is the only way to keep this country moving, and reduce the damage to the environment.
Phil W, UK

It's not Hatfield that stops me travelling by train, it's the cost of doing so. I like train travel, I just hate the amount I am charged for it!
Sue, UK

There is no doubt that the image of the railways has been badly tarnished and will suffer a large haemorrhage of leisure travellers in the short term. In the longer term I think people will forget, particularly as road travel can be unpleasant and plagued by delays too. Once this Hatfield nonsense is over with and our remaining old trains are melted down I'm sure the service will be good enough to tempt people back. But the railways have thrown away 5 years of passenger growth and Railtrack should be ashamed of itself.
Phil George, UK

Isn't it time to call the experiment off?

Nick Crofts, Switzerland

The current chaos and confusion, coupled with increases in passenger fares is a clear demonstration that privatised railways don't work. "Market forces" have not lead to a safe, reliable railway service. Isn't it time to call the experiment off? Some form of reorganisation is essential to eliminate the causes of the current mess.
Nick Crofts, Switzerland

Personally I think that it is not only management of the railways that should take the blame but the total apathy of staff that I have experienced first hand when trying to get information. The job of information staff appears little more than pointing to a computer screen or saying they don't know. In my opinion British people have done far too much "grinning and bearing it". People who work on the railways deserve all the abuse passengers give them and I am one of those who has made my feelings felt. If enough people do it then maybe these people might start waking up to the fact that they are paid to do a job rather than treating passengers with contempt.
Chris Frimston, UK

I frequently travel fairly long distances by train. I fail to see any advantage to trains over cars. The cost of the petrol is frequently less than the cost of a ticket. If you are even remotely above average height the seats are immensely uncomfortable. If you have the audacity to wear a winter coat or carry luggage there is frequently nowhere to put it. Couple this to the delays and complete lack of information when your train has been cancelled and you have a mode of transport that really should come with a health warning. In the eighties, BR's slogan was "We're getting there". It doesn't seem like that nowadays.
R Court, Cambridge, UK

My answer is stop bitching

Derek, ex-pat, Brazil

Yes it needs someone in charge who knows what they are talking about. But if you think this part of the UK's infrastructure is bad, and in comparison to other parts of Europe it may be. But elsewhere, my answer is stop bitching. In Brazil, the largest country in South America, the eighth strongest economy in the world and with 176 million people, there are virtually no passenger trains at all, inter-linking cities across the country.
Derek, ex-pat, Brazil

Why is it that the people at the top of this chaos, the Government, refuse to act? Where was Mr Prescott after Hatfield? Notable by his absence - again. Travelling from Taunton last week I encountered a 'phantom train' as the guard called it, existing only in the revised timetable. Then only realised when it failed to turn up! Please can we have some management here.
Dan Hawes, UK

At London's Victoria station there is some hoarding up while renovations are carried out behind it by Railtrack. Someone has peeled off the foot high stickers spelling out "Railtrack" and rearranged them to read "Liar track". I think this just about sums up their image!
HA, UK

For the privilege of travelling for 20 minutes by train and 20 minutes by tube twice a day, I pay £103 per month. In Paris, I would pay half that for better quality service. And it would be compulsory for my employer to pay half of my travel costs leaving me to pay about £25 per month (there would be no compulsory refund if I travelled by car). A quarter of what I pay here. I use the railways because I have to. Their image is irrelevant. Thank God for that.
Pascal Jacquemain, UK (French)

It seems astonishing to me that Railtrack has survived at all! The Bundesbahn here is a much better system: the trains are clean, frequent and punctual. Yes we had a bad accident about 2 years ago, but most people here believe our trains are very safe. I was in the UK at Christmas, but didn't even consider the train - too expensive, too dirty, too unreliable.
Peter, Germany

If you transported animals like you transport commuters into London, there would be an outcry

Antony Shepherd, UK

If you transported animals like you transport commuters into London, there would be an outcry! The railway system is abhorrent, and this is largely because it is run by accountants. We need people who care about the railway to run it. People who want to make the railway a shining example to the rest of the world. People who are more concerned with service and safety than with multi-billion pound profits.
Antony Shepherd,UK

I will never travel by train again

Vivienne Newsome, UK

Yes I would say that lost customers are gone for good. I will never travel by train again. They are more expensive than driving, and I simply do not believe it when rail spokesmen say that the railways will be safer in future. I would not put my life in their hands again; they are like politicians in that they would not recognise the truth if they fell over it.
Vivienne Newsome, UK

Eventually the railways' image will be restored. It will not stop me from taking the train from time to time. Trains are still a good way to travel, but there is always room for improvement.
Peter Heerens, Netherlands/ Scotland

I agree with Mr Fraser Howse. The image of the railway has never been good. Today we are crowded on antique trains like animals, taking our lives in our hands on every journey. People are paying with their lives.
Stuggers, UK

As long people rely on public transport, companies can charge whatever they like. Sooner or later the people come back anyway. The companies know that.
Holger Rasper, UK

Who cares? Trains are for poor people. The only thing that would tempt me out of my Jag and onto rail is if more 1st class carriages could be added.
Neil, Richmond, England

I used to use the trains for work, but gave up in disgust at the level of service and now use the bus. Over the recent holidays, I had to travel to Shrewsbury and took the Cardiff train. It left Manchester over half an hour late and when it got to Crewe it was announced that it was now in fact going to form the Penzance service, meaning those people boarding a direct train for Wales now had to change and wait around in the snow and cold for another connection. How they can justify putting up prices for such a shambolic service is beyond me.
Mike, UK

The train service is impossible

Dave Hyde, UK

The train service is impossible. As a non-driver who lives over 25 miles away from my place of work I am tied to the trains as traffic congestion into Cardiff makes it unrealistic for me to use the bus service. However, in the last month I have been delayed by over three hours on one day, this on a 20 minute journey. Also, I was informed this morning that my train fare has gone up. I am out of patience!!
Dave Hyde, UK

What image? Are we implying that the railways ever had a good image? In my experience, all I have ever known is a bad rail network.
Fraser Howse, England

Rail travel makes up a tiny percentage of the total number of passenger journeys outside the South East of England. This isn't something that has suddenly happened because of the collapse of the network under Railtrack. I happened in the 60's under the Beeching changes. There will not be public support for massive investment in public transport unless we all benefit from it, not just the people in the one area of the country where there IS a comprehensive (albeit shoddy) system.
Julian, Wiltshire, UK

Railtrack had an accountant in charge

DominiConnor, UK

Railtrack had an accountant in charge. He resented "wasting management time" on safety issues. He has been replaced by an accountant who previously wasn't thought good enough to run the system by Railtrack itself. So we have accountants running the railways. Would you go to a dentist who knew more about accounting than dentistry? That is why no-one has any confidence in the railways.
DominiConnor, UK

The railway's image has been badly damaged, but if you step back and take a look at things, you will see that the roads are far more dangerous. Hatfield happens 2-3 times a day on the roads. Perhaps if they mentioned in the news how many people have been killed each day on our roads, rail will get some of its passengers back!
John Taylor, UK

I think that the railway system is a total sham and that something has to be done about it soon or else people will get to work by other means of transport, i.e. by car, bus or on foot.
Sally Ann, England

Once Failtrack gets Leeds station open again I will resume rail travel but their performance over the last few weeks has been pathetic. Failtrack needs radical sorting out and FAST.
Jon Blythe, UK