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Last Updated: Sunday, 23 September 2007, 09:17 GMT 10:17 UK
Business as usual?
On Sunday 23 September Andrew Marr interviewed The Prime Minister, Gordon Brown MP

Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

Gordon Brown MP
The Prime Minister, Gordon Brown MP

ANDREW MARR: I'm joined now by the Prime Minister.

GORDON BROWN: Good morning.

ANDREW MARR: Good morning and welcome. Let's start off with the obvious.

Is it true, as is reported in the newspapers today, that your advisors, all of your advisors, are saying "go for an early election"?

GORDON BROWN: No. I'm actually getting on with the job, you know. This morning I've been talking to the Chief Veterinary Officer, Debbie Reynolds, about blue tongue.

We've been talking obviously yesterday because we had a special meeting of our emergency committee on foot and mouth.

And as I said on Thursday when I gave a speech, my focus is on the work ahead. The return of parliament, Iraq, the Health Service. We've got a major document coming out, a review of the Health Service, to move the Health Service into a new era. And so my focus is on these things.

Now, whenever the time comes for an election these will be the issues. And I think the most important thing is I get on with the job.

ANDREW MARR: But you know that there's a huge amount of speculation out there in the bars and the restaurants and stuff.

Everyone is talking about it. You could end that, at least for the time being, and it has an effect in the real world and the real economy, by simply saying that you're not going to make any kind of announcement, at least this week or this month.

GORDON BROWN: Well there's been speculation all the time, but you know, I think people know that over these summer months I've just got on with the job.

We had terrorism, we had the floods, we had foot and mouth, we had the financial turbulence.

And I'll keep getting on with the job. And whenever the time comes for a decision I think the issues, of course, are clear, about how we build a stronger economy, how we build for the future a new era for our public services. How we respond to the rising aspirations of the British people.

And that's what I think I will be trying to show the people of Britain this week. And that's what I think all the ministers in the government, whether it's the education, or the schools, or the health, or the housing minister, they'll be showing what we can offer for the future of this country.

ANDREW MARR: So when the election does come, what is the choice that's going to be facing the country?

GORDON BROWN: I think the choice is becoming pretty clear. Between a government that is determined at all times to maintain the stability and growth of the British economy.

And I think we've proved over these last ten years we can do it, and will continue to do so, as against an opposition which I detect wants to cut taxes, raise spending, cut borrowing, put the stability of the economy at risk.

And that reminds me of the policies of 1992 which led us to the very disaster that David Cameron had to stand alongside Norman Lamont at the time of the humiliation of the ERM. And I think the issues becoming also pretty clear, you know, about the choice on the public services.

We're going to move the Health Service into a new era. In fact, what I'm talking about today, tomorrow, and the Health Minister's going to be talking about later this week, with a review that is going to be published on the Health Service, is how we can create a Health Service that is not just accessible to all, but is personal to each of us.

The National Health Service is a personal health service in the future where, whether it's a screening when you need it, whether it's the GP that you want, when you want it. Whether it's a hospital that's clean and you can go at the time you want.

ANDREW MARR: More screening, more cleaning. A lot of people will say there's been shed-loads of public money going into the National Health Service. You've been in power as a party for ten years, why has it taken this long?

GORDON BROWN: Well I think people know that there's 80,000 more nurses in the Health Service, there's 20,000 and more...

ANDREW MARR: A lot more bureaucrats as well.

GORDON BROWN: Not, not like that. There's 80,000 more nurses. But the key question is, how can we build a Health Service that is personal to the needs of every individual? And I don't want just some of the British people able to get the doctor when they want it, or to get the consultant when they want it, or to get the GP at the time they want.

I want everybody to have that convenience, that personal treatment. To be treated not as a number, but to be treated with respect as an individual. And that's why clean hospitals are so important.


GORDON BROWN: Not just for safety, but for the respect we show to every individual patient. And that's why we've been looking, you know, with Professor Darsi taking over to do the Health Service review, at international experience. What's happened in every country, you know, MRSA and C. difficile.

ANDREW MARR: A lot of...

GORDON BROWN: But we've been looking at that and therefore the deep clean of hospitals, making sure that the matrons are in charge, all these things are very important because we've learned from international experience.

ANDREW MARR: A lot of people are frightened when they read of his review, that around the country there may be cleaner hospitals, but there'll be a lot fewer of them as well.

GORDON BROWN: Well we are treating two and half million more people in the National Health Service in our hospitals every year. The numbers of people who can get heart bypass operations, the numbers of people who can get cataract operations, and it's the quality of the service that counts.

Not unless there is a medical reason for doing so, and I think the important thing to remember is, when you talk to patients, you know, in the 1940s people wanted a universal service. In 2007 people want something that is personal to their needs. And that's why, for example, screening, so that people can get cancer screening, breast cancer screening, colon cancer screening, all these things are incredibly important. But people want it convenient to them at a time they want it.

ANDREW MARR: When I asked you about the election you started off by talking about the economy. Can I ask you directly when you yourself first knew about the Northern Rock problems?

GORDON BROWN: Well, what happens is that there's a tripartite committee as you probably know - The Bank of England, the Financial Services Authority and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. And of course I'd become aware that the tripartite committee is meeting. But these are matters that are...

ANDREW MARR: So when did that happen? How did you know about that?

GORDON BROWN: Well there's been issues being raised about the financial... you see, what happened is, in America we had the mortgage market in trouble. That spread through to Germany. It was bound to have an effect on every advanced industrial economy.

So the tripartite committee, which actually I set up in 1997, continues to meet on a regular basis to look at all financial issues. And it's at that point that people will become aware of any instances where there is a possibility of an insolvency problem, or a liquidity problem.

ANDREW MARR: And then at what point, is what I'm asking?

GORDON BROWN: The point was when the tripartite committee was meeting and sorting out these issues.


GORDON BROWN: Yes but it kept meeting right from the point, all these issues are dealt with on a regular basis.

ANDREW MARR: It's just that there is a suspicion that the government knew about this quite a while before everybody else did, and that therefore if quicker action had been taken you wouldn't have had those queues outside Northern Rock and the run on the bank.

GORDON BROWN: No, I don't accept that at all. I mean...

ANDREW MARR: It couldn't have been stopped earlier?

GORDON BROWN: No, I don't accept that at all. What you've got is a continuous group of people meeting on a regular basis to look at financial issues. And that is a change we made from 1997.

ANDREW MARR: And if they keep getting it wrong, we know they got it wrong because we know there was a U-turn.

GORDON BROWN: What happened was, we wanted to guarantee the deposits of savers in a way that didn't, if you like, create a moral hazard.

And what we found was that the right thing to do was to guarantee the deposits of savers of Northern Rock. But of course we know that that has ramifications for the whole of the financial system.

ANDREW MARR: Mervin King ruled out what he then had to do. Is his position tenable?

GORDON BROWN: Mervin King has been a brilliant governor of the Bank of England, just as Eddie George before him. And I'm very proud that the system that we created in 1997 at the Bank of England, has moved Britain from being, if you like, the most volatile economy.

Just, just remember in the 80s and the 90s the stop-go recessions when interest rates had to be pushed up sometimes to 15%, and just look now as a result of the new system - we've had ten years where we've had stability. Mervin King was deputy governor under the regime of Eddie George, and is now governor. And I think...

ANDREW MARR: Can he continue as governor?

GORDON BROWN: Well I think the record that the Bank of England under both Eddie George and Mervin King has been one where we've got low inflation, we've got low interest rates, and we've got a record of stability that I think is unparalleled now in the industrial world.

ANDREW MARR: Would you like to see him continue as...

GORDON BROWN: He is continuing as the Governor of the Bank of England.

ANDREW MARR: But he, I mean his being reappointed.

GORDON BROWN: Well, that's a matter for them.

ANDREW MARR: All right. If Mervin King is going to stay where he is, if that's going to happen, what about Northern Rock itself? Because so far none of the senior people in charge have gone. Would you like to see some heads rolling at Northern Rock?

GORDON BROWN: Well, this is a matter for the company, for the directors, for the shareholders, to deal with. You know, some people complain that government interferes too much. It is a matter for the company itself.

But we have got to look in the long run at what are the right ways of dealing with, first of all the guarantees to depositors and savers, and Alistair Darling has made his announcements on that. And of course we'll look at how this tripartite system which actually has in my view worked well in the present difficulties, how that can continue to flourish in the future.

And what we've got, remember, in Britain, is a unique system where you have an independent monetary authority, you have simply one regulator (in America there's a dozen of them), the Financial Services Authority, and you have the Treasury. And the financial stability is examined by these three organisations meeting on a regular basis. And we will continue to develop that system.

ANDREW MARR: And yet something went wrong, because...

GORDON BROWN: I think, I think Andrew, your premise...

ANDREW MARR: You don't think anything went wrong...

GORDON BROWN: Well, you see, no. Your premise is that this is something unique to the United Kingdom.

ANDREW MARR: No, no, it's not, I'm not talking about...

GORDON BROWN: What I see has happened, and I think people do understand this, is that you have problems of financial turbulence which are part of the economic system in America. They then move to Germany, and the question is how you deal with these problems.

And I think we've seen over the last few days that by the action that has been taken, to guarantee the deposits of savers, that people know that we are a government that has not only created a system for dealing with financial issues that is working generally well, but we've also taken the action to deal with the individual depositors in Northern Rock.

ANDREW MARR: And yet we have a system where Northern Rock, lending very, very large amounts of money, gets into trouble where the Bank of England say we're not going into the market and help this bank out.

And then, within a couple of days there is a U-turn and the money goes in. Despite all the promises that moral hazard wasn't going to be (that strange phrase) wasn't going to be risked.

GORDON BROWN: Well I just look at it this way.

ANDREW MARR: There was a U-turn!

GORDON BROWN: Yes, but I just look at it this way. Every point since 1997 we've had to deal with difficulties - Asian crisis, Russian crisis, American recession. Then we've had to deal with the...

ANDREW MARR: You don't get it right day one, you get it right later.

GORDON BROWN: Yes. And we've dealt with this problem in the same way, by taking tough action, by showing that we are on the side of the depositors and savers. By saying that we will review whatever there is in the system that needs to be changed to make it better.

And I think people can have confidence that, you know, the last ten years has not been a period when you haven't had financial problems, it's how you deal with them. And I think we have shown that we can deal with them and maintain the stability of the economy which is after all first and foremost in the minds of anybody who's watching this programme.

ANDREW MARR: And as someone who knows a huge amount about the economy from your long record as Chancellor, you're happy about the way that an organisation like Northern Rock has gone about its lending policies?

GORDON BROWN: Northern Rock has obviously got to look at the issues that affect them. Northern Rock has got to look at the methods that it was employing to both raise money and manage its affairs. But Northern Rock, because of the importance that we attach to the financial system as a whole, the depositors and savers in Northern Rock...have a guarantee from the government?

GORDON BROWN: Well the depositors and savers have a guarantee from the government, and of course we want at all points to maintain the stability of the financial system.

ANDREW MARR: Do you think this is the end of something or the beginning of something?

GORDON BROWN: Well I think the real issue is this. There will always be financial events around the world, many of them will impact on the United Kingdom.

However good your economic policy is there will always be those issues of, in a fast-moving global economy, where you've got to react to events. The question is do you have the right system in place to guarantee and ensure the stability of the economy?

And I believe the events of the last ten years have proven that we have a good system in place, probably a better one than any of the other major countries in the world, able to act to deal with these problems. And my assurance to the British people is at all times we'll not take risks, stability will come first.

ANDREW MARR: The Conservative Party makes the point, a fair point, that we have 1.4 trillion worth of private debt now in our economy. A massive amount. Now that happened on your watch.

Do you accept any responsibility for the fact that we are such an indebted society? I'm not talking about government debt at this moment, I'm talking about a private debt.

GORDON BROWN: Well what the Conservatives are talking about is large numbers of people who have been able to take mortgages and buy their homes for the first time.

ANDREW MARR: And buy other things with mortgages too.

GORDON BROWN: But hold on. That is a good thing, not a bad thing. I think an analysis of what's happening in the British economy where it is possible for more and more people, nearly two million more people, to become homeowners under a Labour government and therefore to take out mortgages, and to have interest rates that allow them to afford these mortgages, is something that is a gain and not a loss. And therefore you've got to look at the economy as a whole.

And I think that the fact that we've got low inflation, it's gone down below 2% again, the fact that we've got relatively low interest rates and will always bear down in inflation, means that unlike the early 1990s where I think the Conservatives should look at their own record in the early 90s when they let things get completely out of control, we have managed to maintain a growing economy where people can borrow to buy their own homes, and do it in a situation where inflation and interest rates are low, and people feel that there is stability in the economy.

ANDREW MARR: But to do it, and I come back to the phrase, "on a mountain of debt". There is a vast amount of debt and you're a prudent man yourself, do you really think that the way we've all been behaving over the last ten years has been prudent?

GORDON BROWN: It's because I am prudent that you look at, what is the average share of your income that you're paying out from the mortgage to meet your debts? And in many cases it's half what it was in the early 1990s. So, yes, house prices are higher, yes people are having to take out bigger mortgages.

ANDREW MARR: Sometimes five, six times what they're earning a year.

GORDON BROWN: Yes, and that's what people have to look at themselves and anybody who get into personal debt we're going to have systems for dealing with people to help them get out of that debt. But on average people are spending a lower proportion of their income on the mortgages and on the repayment of debt than happened in the early 1990s when we ran into so much trouble.

And it was because the government of the day was not good enough in dealing with these problems, was lax in dealing with these problems, that we have had these repossessions and we had negative equity. I think when you've got low inflation and you're determined to do... Look, look, I took a very difficult decision on the public sector pay round. It's not very popular in some places, but that was to keep inflation low so that we can have a stable economy.

And I think what you're looking for is a government that's prepared to maintain stability, and I would be very wary of a policy, and particularly a political party that's telling us that they have answers when the problem that they caused us in the early 90s was caused by the very policy...

ANDREW MARR: It was caused by a mountain of debt and there's another one now.

GORDON BROWN: Sorry, it was caused by saying that you could have lower taxes, higher spending and lower borrowing all at the same time, something that any sensible person knows does not add up. And that's what led us into the problems that caused the 15% interest rates, three million unemployed, massive repossessions...

ANDREW MARR: So, "steady as she goes" is the answer, is it?

GORDON BROWN: Well I do remember Andrew because if the Conservatives are attacking us on the economy I do remember Andrew, in 1992, the person standing next to Norman Lamont is the current leader of the Conservative Party, David Cameron, who was the political advisor to Mr. Lamont at that time.

ANDREW MARR: Yes, you have made that point before. You mention public sector workers. Let's turn to the wider political scene, and let me ask you a very sort of odd-sounding question perhaps, which is, politically who are you?

Because a lot of people thought when you came in as Prime Minister that you would be a little bit to the left of Tony Blair. Now here you are taking on the public sector. You may have a rough winter of industrial action, and standing next to Margaret Thatcher. They say we no longer know who Gordon Brown really is politically?

GORDON BROWN: I think if you want to understand where I come from, my father was a minister of a church. I was brought up to believe in these very basic values, that you do your duty, you treat everybody with respect, hard work, family. And I think these are the values that, if you like, influence everything that I try to do.

And it makes me believe in the National Health Service because it gives people the opportunity to be free of the fear of money, and it makes me believe in education because I myself got great chances in education, and I want to make sure that every child has the sort of chances that I had.

ANDREW MARR: Education your passion and health your priority?

GORDON BROWN: Well exactly.

ANDREW MARR: But they can't both be.

GORDON BROWN: Health is the immediate issue in this country. We've got to make the Health Service better and that's why we've got to move it into a new era. Education is of course the key to the long-term future of the country because, let's build the skills for the stronger economy of the future.

ANDREW MARR: Ok. Ok. The Thatcher business though was a great political stunt, wasn't it?

GORDON BROWN: Every Prime Minister, you know, has invited in their predecessors into No. 10 Downing Street.

ANDREW MARR: But you were doing it to stick a pointed stick up the Conservative Party.



GORDON BROWN: No, I was doing it because it was the courteous thing to do. Other Prime Ministers have invited their predecessors into No. 10. And as I said, I think two weeks before she visited No. 10, you know I disagreed with what happened on unemployment in the 1980s.

It's probably the most important thing that drove me to be a Member of Parliament. But there's two things that I think people do recognise about Mrs. Thatcher. She did recognise the need for change in this country as I recognise the need for change again now.

ANDREW MARR: Not a change that you supported at the time.

GORDON BROWN: And she was a conviction politician.

ANDREW MARR: Not a change that you supported at the time?

GORDON BROWN: No, because we saw too much unemployment and it was unnecessary in many ways. But at the same time she recognised the need for change and I think I was doing the courteous thing in inviting her to No. 10.

ANDREW MARR: They're going to use it against you up in Scotland. The Scottish National Party are going to play it in their election broadcasts.

GORDON BROWN: Let them do that. I defend the United Kingdom. I defend being part of Great Britain. If they want to use that to argue for the break-up of the United Kingdom I think the people of Scotland are sensible enough, because they know the benefits of being in the United Kingdom, to support us staying as part of Britain.

ANDREW MARR: Let's turn to another subject that's been of great concern to a lot of people recently, which is immigration. When I asked David Cameron about this last time he gave me a very straightforward answer. He said that on balance he thought there had been a little bit too much migration over the last few years, because of the pressure on public services. Do you agree with him?

GORDON BROWN: No, you've got to look at this issue, managed migration, that is the policy of the government. Managed migration which means you have a points system.

ANDREW MARR: We've got half a million people here we can't even count.

GORDON BROWN: You've got a points system now. It has just been introduced. It's the Australian method. And that means that people who have got skills, people have got something to offer, can come to this country to make a contribution to this country.

But if you come to this country you've got to learn our language, you've got to understand our traditions and culture. And it's really a very important part of citizenship in the modern world where there are responsibilities as well as there are rights. And I stand by a system of managed migration and I think that is the best way forward.

ANDREW MARR: And you are comfortable with the number of people who've been coming here over the last few years?

GORDON BROWN: Where there is illegal immigration to our country we must tackle it and we must be very strong in removing these people from our country.

ANDREW MARR: But putting illegal immigration to one side, are you happy with the overall numbers?

GORDON BROWN: I don't think anybody has any doubt that we take a very tough line on that. As far as the numbers of people in this country, our system is managed migration, where people can make a contribution to this country under the points system, they will be able to enter. But they've got to learn the English language, they've got to understand our traditions and culture.

ANDREW MARR: You're talking about the future. I'm just asking about what's happened over the last few years. Is it the case there have been about the right number of people coming into this country, or too many?

GORDON BROWN: Well we changed the rules for Romania and Bulgaria. But let me just say, I think there's a quantitative judgement.

ANDREW MARR: It's a pretty straight question.

GORDON BROWN: No, I think there's a quantitative judgement. You've got to look at who has the skills, whether they can help your economy. You have a points system. It is an Australian-based system which has worked well there, and that is the way we are going to approach things now and in the future.

ANDREW MARR: So numbers overall, comfortable or not?

GORDON BROWN: Well numbers overall depends on the skills that people have and what they can offer this country. It's a system of managed migration which is very tough, both on illegal immigration into this country and very tough also in making sure that the people who come to this country have the skills that we need.

ANDREW MARR: Let's look at foreign policy. Looking at particularly at Iraq to start with. You've been speaking to General Petraeus. Are we going to get an announcement in the course of the order of a further British troop withdrawal?

GORDON BROWN: I'm going to make a statement to the House of Commons when we return in October.

And I want to set out to the House of Commons how we are moving in the provinces for which we have responsibility in Iraq, from what you might call the combat role to one where the Iraqis themselves take over the responsibility for their own security, and you might call our rule then over-watch while the military and policing forces that are the Iraqis themselves, take over responsibility.

Now the timing of that, it depends on the circumstances on the ground. On the judgements that are made by our very brave military men and women who have served this country with great distinction and great courage, and I appreciate the contribution they've made. And, you know, any decision we make, the first priority must be the safety of our troops.

ANDREW MARR: A lot of people feel that our service people abroad, when they come home, don't get the kind of welcome or response they really deserve. General Dannatt made the point that they don't get the kind of parades and public recognition that servicemen coming back to the States would expect?

GORDON BROWN: Well I think we do, and I want to assure the military that we do appreciate, not just the courage...

ANDREW MARR: Do you have to do more for them do you think?

GORDON BROWN: Yes I think so, not just the courage and the dedication that they show, but also their continuous commitment day by day to pursuing what is the interests of our country abroad.

And I think in addition to medals and honours and parades, we've got to show financially that we reward them properly. That's why we've introduced this allowance for being on duty, which is essentially to defer any income tax that they would have to pay. That's why we continue to look at more that we can do.

ANDREW MARR: Do you have some more ideas for more things you can do?

GORDON BROWN: Yes, and we're trying to improve the accommodation that's available to the Army as well as to the Air Force and the Navy.

And of course as you know also, we've taken other measures such as the public pay round where some of the younger military men and women received 9% pay rises in recognition of the danger and our dependence upon them in Afghanistan, in Iraq, of course still in the Falkland Islands and in Ireland, and still in Bosnia.

ANDREW MARR: Despite their brave, brave work a lot of people look at what's happened in the south of Iraq and say Britain has effectively been defeated. Did either General Petraeus or President Bush at any stage express disappointment to you, that we were pulling out?

GORDON BROWN: In fact the opposite. General Petraeus gave a press briefing in London after he met us during the course of last week. And he said that the British troops were doing exactly what he hoped would be possible in other parts of Iraq.

In other words we were gradually handing the security of the area, particularly in this case Basra, over to the Iraqi security forces, training them up to do the job, and making sure that the Iraqi security forces were able to maintain law and order.

Now that's exactly the policy that he wishes for the rest of Iraq and I think if you look back on his interviews he praised the British troops and the British military decisions that were being made.

ANDREW MARR: All right. Zimbabwe. You're not going to meet Robert Mugabe under any circumstances.


ANDREW MARR: You're not going to shake his hand. If they send somebody else you'll go but you won't otherwise. When it comes to other forms of sanctions, like full economic sanctions and putting pressure particularly on South Africa, how much further can you go?

GORDON BROWN: Well we are prepared and we are actually considering stepping up our sanctions, and this would be a decision that we'd ask the rest of the European Union to support. And I think it is the combination of these things. The UN we've asked to appoint a special envoy, I believe that will happen very soon. The European Union we wish to see a group active in pushing for change in Zimbabwe.

The African Union has got to play its part and do so strongly. And we are ready, not only with humanitarian aid, because there are four million people who would be in famine but for the food aid that we and others can provide, that we're also ready with a plan for economic reconstruction once a democracy is re-established. I think the message has got to go out pretty clearly, this is a country which is offending the human rights of every one of its individual citizens and it's a country where the poverty, the 80% unemployment, four million people now from Zimbabwe in South Africa, and these are tragedies, human tragedies, and we will do everything that we can, but it depends on us all working together.

ANDREW MARR: Can you promise me that during this week you will not announce a General Election campaign?

GORDON BROWN: We started at the beginning of your programme by me saying that I'm not going to give a running commentary.

ANDREW MARR: No, but I'm asking you something that will reassure lots of people watching.

GORDON BROWN: I think you'll find that I'm getting on with the job. I think you'll find that I'm getting on with the job and I think you'll find also that my focus is entirely, entirely, on the issues that affect the country.

ANDREW MARR: People say that can't possibly be absolutely true because after all every politician wants a mandate, wants to be elected. You're a prudent man but the odd thing about the situation at the moment is the prudent cautious thing would be to go early.

GORDON BROWN: Look, you can introduce speculation about these things as much as you want. We could have a running commentary in every interview about all these things.

ANDREW MARR: It's going to take this conference over though, isn't it?

GORDON BROWN: For me I just repeat what I said on Thursday when all these issues were raised and I said it publicly. I said, look, my focus is on the things in hand.

The things in hand actually include today trying to eradicate and control foot and mouth, dealing with blue tongue but also of course preparing a national security strategy, preparing with the Chancellor, we're working on the pre-budget report and then of course on the National Health Service review.

ANDREW MARR: You first stood for Parliament when?


ANDREW MARR: And the Prime Minister then had delayed then, hadn't he? Did you win that particular seat?

GORDON BROWN: I didn't win my seat in 1979.

ANDREW MARR: Because the Prime Minister delayed.

GORDON BROWN: There are so many historical analogies, you could go back, I mean you counted, there are so many historical analogies I think the important one is, look what the country want of a government, of a government, is that you get on with the job. There are times for making decisions about other things but I think people want me to show.

ANDREW MARR: And you will show us tomorrow.

GORDON BROWN: I hope that I can impress you tomorrow, and inspire you tomorrow, and talk about some of the great things ahead because the purpose of tomorrow I think is to show people that we're not only a competent government but we have a vision about the future of this country, leading this country forward to be the great success story I know it can be in the global age.

ANDREW MARR: Prime Minister thank you very much indeed.


NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy

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